Death of Jesus, Evidence From The Quran

5/3/13
Death Of Jesus,evidence From The Quran. - Islam for Muslims (1) - Nairaland
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Death Of Jesus,evidence From The Quran. - Islam for Muslims (1) Nairaland
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(0) (1) (2) (3) (Reply ) (Go Down) Re: Death Of Jesus,evidence From The Quran. by Niyi53(m): 8:55am On Nov 29, 2009 In 4:157, almighty Allah is rejecting two allegations. 1)blasphemy on maryam, jesus mother. 2)the jews boast of having killed jesus. The two have already been rejected. Is God not powerfull to save jesus without taking him to heaven. God says in sura mursalat 'have we not made the land sufficient, (to hold) the living and the dead? Re: Death Of Jesus,evidence From The Quran. by IbrahimB: 9:08pm On Nov 29, 2009 1. if God is the subject, would automatically mean death. I think you need to expatiate on this. 2. You say according to the quran that Allah is settled throne. I didn't say, Allah said.
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3. Where is the throne? In sura hud, it is written that the throne is on water. Yes, that's correct. 4. So is the water in heaven?(smiling) The water is above the Heavens not in heaven It is narrated from Abbas bin Abdul-Muttalib (May Allah be pleased with him) that Allah's Messenger (May the peace and blessing of Allah be upon him) said: "Do you know how much the distance between earth and heaven is?" We said, "Allah and His Messenger know better." Then he (May the peace and blessing of Allah be upon him) said, "The distance between them is 500 years, and the distance between one heaven to the next is 500 years, and the dimension of each heaven will take 500 years to travel, and there is a sea between the seventh heaven and the Throne which has between its lowest and highest ends the distance like that between the heavens and the earth (i.e. 500 years). And Allah the Most Exalted is above that and nothing is secret from Him of the deeds of Bani Adam (humankind)." [Reported by Abu Dawud and others.] 5. who told you that adam and eve were both in heaven Adam and Hauwa were both in the Garden, which is above the heavens. Are you arguing that Adam and Hauwa were not in the Garden? 6) He is about to place a vicegerant on earth not in heaven,was it only the two of them that was in it? GOD when sending then out said 'ihbituu', it is used in the plural form. Yes the vicegerant was on earth and not in heaven and were Adam and Hauwa not eventually brought to the earth? What point are you trying to prove here?
7) YANZILU is from NAZALA. It means to descend. Does it also mean a physical descent . Yes it does. Surah Ar-Rum Verse 24: And He sends down (yunzila) water from the sky, and therewith revives the earth after its death.
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8. Is God not powerfull to save jesus without taking him to heaven Yes indeed He is! But that being the case, He has told us in the Qur'an and through the lips of His Apostle, that Isa was raised to the 2nd Heaven. And we are not to question why He chose to do it that way. If one could believe the truth of the Isra and Miraaj, then why can't one believe this? Let me ask you a question: Why is it that you just seem to dislike the idea that Isa (A.S) is in Heaven? Wassalam Re: Death Of Jesus,evidence From The Quran. by Niyi53(m): 10:24am On Nov 30, 2009 I dislike the idea of isa been in heaven because it is against the clear statement of the quran, and also derogatory to his unity. I would have like to discuss at length but i am very busy here, nd my phone is not as east as a computer. Therefore, lets take the points gradually, one by one. You would present the points you want us to discuss then i start, not bring that of nazala, then rafaha etc. Re: Death Of Jesus,evidence From The Quran. by IbrahimB: 11:01am On Nov 30, 2009 1. I dislike the idea of isa been in heaven because it is against the clear statement of the quran, and also derogatory to his unity. Derogatory to whose unity? Was Muhammad not ever in heaven? What of Jibreel and the other angels? 2. I now put the question to you: How does Isa being in heaven compromise God's unity? 3. And its blatantly false to say its against the statement of the Qur'an. Because the Qur'an clearly states that Isa was raised. And the Hadiths of the prophet concur that he is in the 2nd heaven. 4. I also like discussing point by point and that's why I even take the pains to number all my statements. 5. Have you sincerely answered all the points I gave? Frankly, you can choose to believe whatever you wish to believe.
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Wassalam. Re: Death Of Jesus,evidence From The Quran. by Niyi53(m): 11:33am On Nov 30, 2009 Assalamu alaikum. Lets start gradually from 3:55, present 10, or at least 5, deferent places where the word TAWAFFA has been used to mean take up or raise up, except 5:117. Because it seems its only when the word is used in relation to jesus that you take it to mean raise up. If you dont present it i would, ! Re: Death Of Jesus,evidence From The Quran. by IbrahimB: 2:42pm On Nov 30, 2009 You've still not replied my question: how is Isa being in heaven derogatory to God's unity? Or let me help you answer the question: The reason why you so much dislike the idea of Jesus being in heaven is that it would terribly jeopardize Mirza Ghulam Ahmad's claim of being the awaited Messiah! The Ahmadi leader knew that if Isa was still alive in heaven, and will be later returning to earth, then his audacious claim of being the messiah will be automatically rejected And hence, for him, it was only convenient to get Isa (A.S) out of the way. That is the real reason. Anyway, Niyi, I think instead of just making this brief statement:
The Holy Quran has clearly mentioned that jesus (isa ibn maryam) is dead. 5:116-117;3:56 etc. And it is against the idea that he was raised up to the heavens.
One would have expected you to present a detailed article explaining your position. Then you can wait for the "house of assembly" to either agree or disagree with you. It seemed you just made the statement in order to start an argument? You started the thread. Can we have your essay please? Thank you. Re: Death Of Jesus,evidence From The Quran. by olabowale(m): 1:54am On Dec 01, 2009 niyi53, please dont die disbelieving that sayidina Isa bin Maryam (AS) will return to earth as a sign of the end of time. And there is no place in Surah Maida, especially 116 you quoted that indicated an event that has happened already since Allah's conversation to follow is on the day of Judgement. Re: Death Of Jesus,evidence From The Quran. by Abuzola 1(m): 9:41am On Dec 01, 2009 Niyi am less busy today, i will quote the hadith and Quran inshallah Re: Death Of Jesus,evidence From The Quran. by Niyi53(m): 10:08am On Dec 01, 2009
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I believe jesus christ is dead the way other prophets died, but not on the cross. I also believe that "isa ibn maryam" is coming as foretold by the holy prophet (saw). The holy quran mentioned his death in a number of places more than it even mentioned the death of other prophet. And one fact still exist, and it is as long as the muslims are still believing that jesus is still alive, they are supporting them in their belief, because they would (in that case be worshipping a living god) This are my evidence (from the quran) that he is dead: 1) 5:117- 'and i was a witness over them as long as i remained among them, but since Thou didst cause me to die, Thou hast been the Watcher over them;and Thou Witness over all things'. There is no doubt that this verse indicates clearly about the death of isa ibn maryam. This is because of the question asked at the begining of the preceding verse (and when Allah will say, 'O Jesus, son of mary, didst thou say to men, 'take me and my mother for two gods beside Allah?). If we accept as it is said that, it is an event which is going to occur on the day of resurrection, then,we should know that jesus is saying that he was a witness and a watcher over his people as long as he was among them. And that they never turned in to disbelievers(taken him for a god), except after he left them(he died). But if it is that he returned from heaven as it is said, he would have surely knew that his followers have gone astray and have taken him for god. It is a known fact that the christians take jesus for god (5:72, indeed they are disbelievers who say surely Allah is none but the messiah son of mary.) and they have not stoped taking him for god. Then it would be a lair(God forbids) on his path to deny that he doesnt know about it. In hadith bukhari, it is narrated that the holy prophet, on the day of judgement, would want to intercede for some people who would be on the left side. Then he would be told that they deviated after you have left them. Then the holy prophet would then recite 5:116. Bukhari vol 6, kitabu tafsir, 5:116.) does this mean that the holy prophet was also raised? Re: Death Of Jesus,evidence From The Quran. by Niyi53(m): 10:37am On Dec 01, 2009 2) 3:55, and when Allah said o jesus i would cause you to die (a natural death.) and will exalt thee to Myself, and will clear thee from the charges of those who disbelieve, and will place those who follow thee above those who disbelieve, untill the day of resurrection, TAWAFFA, if it is from babi-t-tafhil, and the MUTAWAFFA(subject) is Allah or one of the angels, and the MUTAWAFFI (object) is a person with soul, the meaning is nothing but death. A thing contrary to this cannot be found in the quran nor in the books of hadith nor in arabic language nor in any book of arabic poetry. This example from the dictionaries, quran, and hadith will be sufficient: tawaffa-l-lahu fulaanan means he took his soul.(aqrabul mawarid) TAWAFFA LAHU means he took the soul.(qamusu muhit, lisan ul arab) from the quran: And those of you who die and leave wives behind,(2:234) and in death number us among the righteous(3:193) let death come to me in a state of submission to thy will and join me to the righteous(12:101). From the traditions: hazrat Aisha says 'TAWAFFA N nabiyyu fi bayti. (the holy prophet died in my room). In the funeral prayer, the holy prophet recite, man tawaffaitahu minna, fatawaffahu alal iman. Ibn Abbas says in his tafsir, MUTAWAFFI KA MUMIITUKA. MUTAWAFFI KA is I will cause you to die. Re: Death Of Jesus,evidence From The Quran. by Niyi53(m): 11:40am On Dec 01, 2009 As for the word rafa'a in the verse(rafi'uka ilayy and bal rafa'ahu llahu ilaihi), it does not mean that the messiah was raised up to the heaven alive with his physical body. 'Rafa'a' here means exaltation in station, rank, degree,or nearness to Him in spirit not is body, because Allah is not in a particular place that he would raise a physical body to Himself. But He is found every where, has He has said: And He is Allah in heavens and on earth,(sura an'am). In sura araf, 176, and if We had pleased, We could have exalted(rafa'nahu) him thereby. In sura nur, 36, (This light is now lit in houses with regard to which Allah has ordained that they be
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'exalted'. In sura mujadala,11, And Allah will RAISE those who believe from among you. In the tradition, sahih bukhari tafsir sura Rahman, every day He manifest His self, forgives sins, remove distresses, RAISE some nations, and abase others. The holy prophet said, verily, Allah RAISE with this book, nations, and abase some.(sahih muslim, bab fadli man yaqumu bil quran). the holy prophet said, and none humbles himself for Allah except that Allah RAISES him (bab istijaba l'afwu wat tawad'i) in the prayer said btw the two sajda: my lord forgive me, and have mercy on me, and protect me, and RAISE me (sunan ibn majah). From all this prayers, we've never seen anybody been raised up to heaven, or is our prayers not accepted? Nobody ever thought IDRIS was raised up to heaven with his physical body when God says in sura maryam,56-57, and relate the story of Idris as mentioned in the book. He was a truthful man and a prophet. And We RAISED him to a lofty station. If we say he is alive,physically, in heaven,we will having two options, either he is going to come down to the earth then die or stay in heaven till eternity. As for his coming, there is no foundation for it and none believes in it. As for his staying in heaven with his physical body till eternity, it is contradictory to the verse, every soul shall taste death(sura ambiya), if we say he is going to die in heaven, it will also contradict the verse, therein you shall live, therein you shall die, and from it you shall be brought forth from(araf). The truth is that Allah raised him in spirit, and not bodily, as He has raised all the prophets. Re: Death Of Jesus,evidence From The Quran. by Niyi53(m): 11:41am On Dec 01, 2009 As for the word rafa'a in the verse(rafi'uka ilayy and bal rafa'ahu llahu ilaihi), it does not mean that the messiah was raised up to the heaven alive with his physical body. 'Rafa'a' here means exaltation in station, rank, degree,or nearness to Him in spirit not is body, because Allah is not in a particular place that he would raise a physical body to Himself. But He is found every where, has He has said: And He is Allah in heavens and on earth,(sura an'am). In sura araf, 176, and if We had pleased, We could have exalted(rafa'nahu) him thereby. In sura nur, 36, (This light is now lit in houses with regard to which Allah has ordained that they be 'exalted'. In sura mujadala,11, And Allah will RAISE those who believe from among you. In the tradition, sahih bukhari tafsir sura Rahman, every day He manifest His self, forgives sins, remove distresses, RAISE some nations, and abase others. The holy prophet said, verily, Allah RAISE with this book, nations, and abase some.(sahih muslim, bab fadli man yaqumu bil quran). the holy prophet said, and none humbles himself for Allah except that Allah RAISES him (bab istijaba l'afwu wat tawad'i) in the prayer said btw the two sajda: my lord forgive me, and have mercy on me, and protect me, and RAISE me (sunan ibn majah). From all this prayers, we've never seen anybody been raised up to heaven, or is our prayers not accepted? Nobody ever thought IDRIS was raised up to heaven with his physical body when God says in sura maryam,56-57, and relate the story of Idris as mentioned in the book. He was a truthful man and a prophet. And We RAISED him to a lofty station. If we say he is alive,physically, in heaven,we will having two options, either he is going to come down to the earth then die or stay in heaven till eternity. As for his coming, there is no foundation for it and none believes in it. As for his staying in heaven with his physical body till eternity, it is contradictory to the verse, every soul shall taste death(sura ambiya), if we say he is going to die in heaven, it will also contradict the verse, therein you shall live, therein you shall die, and from it you shall be brought forth from(araf). The truth is that Allah raised him in spirit, and not bodily, as He has raised all the prophets. Re: Death Of Jesus,evidence From The Quran. by Niyi53(m): 11:53am On Dec 01, 2009 As for the statement 'ila' or 'ilaihi', it does not indicate raising in body. Hazrat Ibrahim said ' inni muhajirun ila rabbi' 'i take refuge in my lord'(29:26). I am going to my Lord, Who will guide me(37:99). Those who are patient would say to Allah we belong, and to Him we are going to return. In sura dhariyat,50, run ye therefore unto Allah. All these do not mean Allah is in a place physically, but it is spiritual. The holy prophet said he saw Allah "bi 'ainul qalb" that is with the eye of his heart.
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Re: Death Of Jesus,evidence From The Quran. by Niyi53(m): 12:04pm On Dec 01, 2009 One more point is that Allah says in sura Nahl 20-21, and those on whom they call beside Allah created not anything, but they are themselves created. THEY ARE DEAD, NOT LIVING; AND THEY KNOW NOT WHEN THEY WILL BE RAISED. Its a fact which the quran acknowledge, that jesus is among those been called upon beside Allah. Therefore according to this verse,all (no exception is made) is dead. JESUS IS THEREFORE DEAD. And peace shall be on him who follows the guidiance. (20:47) Re: Death Of Jesus,evidence From The Quran. by Niyi53(m): 12:11pm On Dec 01, 2009 Abuzola 1: Niyi am less busy today, i will quote the hadith and Quran inshallah i am also expecting you. And a magician shall not thrive, come where he may.(20:70) Re: Death Of Jesus,evidence From The Quran. by Abuzola 1(m): 3:45pm On Dec 01, 2009 Niyi53: i am also expecting you. And a magician shall not thrive, come where he may.(20:70)
smile Re: Death Of Jesus,evidence From The Quran. by Abuzola 1(m): 12:25am On Dec 02, 2009 Here we go: if you disbelieve in any part of the Quran or hadith then it means ahmadi are not true muslim, a true muslim comply with the Quran and hadith Re: Death Of Jesus,evidence From The Quran. by Abuzola 1(m): 1:09am On Dec 02, 2009 Since you believe that hadith explains the Quran then lets start with this sahih bukhari, vol 4, book 55, number 657 narrated by Abu huraira that Allah's Apostle said,,'By Him in whose my soul is, surely (jesus) the son of mary will soon descend amongst you and will judge mankind justly , he will break the cross, kill the pigs and there will be no jizya. Money will be in abundance so that nobody will accept charitable gifts and a single prostration to Allah (in prayer) is better than the whole world and whatever is in it. Abu huraira added,'if you wish you can recite it (in the Quran) 'and there is none of the people of the book but must believe in him (jesus son of mary as only a messenger of God) before his death (i.e before jesus death). And on the day of judgement he will be a witness against them' Quran 4:159 (see also fatal al bari pg 302, vol 7) Re: Death Of Jesus,evidence From The Quran. by Abuzola 1(m): 1:29am On Dec 02, 2009
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Sahih bukhari, Vol 3, book 43, number 656 Narrated Abu hurairah Allah's Apostle said,'The hour will not be established untill son of mary (jesus) descends amongst you as a just ruler, he will break the cross, kill the pigs and abolish jizya, money will be abundance that no one will accept charitable gifts' The above hadith says that the world will not come to an end till jesus descends amongst us. It is also supported by the Quran 'and he (jesus) son of mary shall be a known sign for the hour . Therefore have no doubt concerning it. And follow Me (Allah). This is the straight path' Quran 43:61 Re: Death Of Jesus,evidence From The Quran. by Niyi53(m): 11:39am On Dec 02, 2009 Abuzola 1: Since you believe that hadith explains the Quran then lets start with this sahih bukhari, vol 4, book 55, number 657 narrated by Abu huraira that Allah's Apostle said,,'By Him in whose my soul is, surely (jesus) the son of mary will soon descend amongst you and will judge mankind justly , he will break the cross, kill the pigs and there will be no jizya. Money will be in abundance so that nobody will accept charitable gifts and a single prostration to Allah (in prayer) is better than the whole world and whatever is in it. Abu huraira added,'if you wish you can recite it (in the Quran) 'and there is none of the people of the book but must believe in him (jesus son of mary as only a messenger of God) before his death (i.e before jesus death). And on the day of judgement he will be a witness against them' Quran 4:159 (see also fatal al bari pg 302, vol 7) when the quran has already established the fact that jesus (isa ibn maryam, who was sent to the children of israel) is dead, the holy prophet could not have gone or act contrary to it. The fact of the matter is that nearly everybody has been misled by the word NUZUL in the tradition. Literally it means 'descent'. Therefore most people have been misled into thinking that as the Messiah was to have a descent, it can only be the first Messiah. Now, it is quite wrong to think that the word NUZUL always means 'descent from an eminence'. The word 'descent' only points to how important, significant and far-reaching the thing is which is to descend. It tells us that the thing to 'descend' is to be the instrument of the Majesty and Power of God. Such things are said to 'descend' from God to a people. This meaning of 'descent' (sending down) is in conformity with usage sanctioned by the Holy Quran in several passages. Thus: And He has 'sent down' eight head of cattle in pairs. (al zumar, 6) and we 'sent down' iron, wherein is material for violent warfare and many benefits for mankind and that Allah may distinguish those who help Him and His Messengers without having seem Him. Surely, Allah is Powerful, Mighty. (al hadid, 25) and if Allah should enlarge the provision for His servants, they would rebel in the earth; but He 'sends down' according to a proper measure as He pleases. Indeed, He is All-Aware and All-Seeing with regard to His servants. (al shura, 27) then He sent down His peace upon His messenger. (9:26). And sent down on you Manna and Salwa
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Then after the sorrow, He sent down peace on you, a slumber that overcame a party of you. (3:154). We have indee sent down raiment to you to cover your shame, and to be an elegant dress; but the raiment of righteousness, that is the best. That is one of the Signs of Allah that they may remember. (7:26). Every body knows that peace is a quality of the human mind and sleep a function of the human brain. Animals, garments, green fields, quails (salwa), iron, and other things grow on the soil or come from under it. They do not descend or drop down from Heaven. Nor is their 'descent from Heaven' a description sanctioned by the holy quran. The description of the Holy Quran is quite clear. It says: And He put therein firm mountains on the surface, and He put blessings therein and measured its foods therein into four periods, alike for all seekers. (41:10) Re: Death Of Jesus,evidence From The Quran. by Niyi53(m): 11:40am On Dec 02, 2009 Abuzola 1: Since you believe that hadith explains the Quran then lets start with this sahih bukhari, vol 4, book 55, number 657 narrated by Abu huraira that Allah's Apostle said,,'By Him in whose my soul is, surely (jesus) the son of mary will soon descend amongst you and will judge mankind justly , he will break the cross, kill the pigs and there will be no jizya. Money will be in abundance so that nobody will accept charitable gifts and a single prostration to Allah (in prayer) is better than the whole world and whatever is in it. Abu huraira added,'if you wish you can recite it (in the Quran) 'and there is none of the people of the book but must believe in him (jesus son of mary as only a messenger of God) before his death (i.e before jesus death). And on the day of judgement he will be a witness against them' Quran 4:159 (see also fatal al bari pg 302, vol 7) when the quran has already established the fact that jesus (isa ibn maryam, who was sent to the children of israel) is dead, the holy prophet could not have gone or act contrary to it. The fact of the matter is that nearly everybody has been misled by the word NUZUL in the tradition. Literally it means 'descent'. Therefore most people have been misled into thinking that as the Messiah was to have a descent, it can only be the first Messiah. Now, it is quite wrong to think that the word NUZUL always means 'descent from an eminence'. The word 'descent' only points to how important, significant and far-reaching the thing is which is to descend. It tells us that the thing to 'descend' is to be the instrument of the Majesty and Power of God. Such things are said to 'descend' from God to a people. This meaning of 'descent' (sending down) is in conformity with usage sanctioned by the Holy Quran in several passages. Thus: And He has 'sent down' eight head of cattle in pairs. (al zumar, 6) and we 'sent down' iron, wherein is material for violent warfare and many benefits for mankind and that Allah may distinguish those who help Him and His Messengers without having seem Him. Surely, Allah is Powerful, Mighty. (al hadid, 25) and if Allah should enlarge the provision for His servants, they would rebel in the earth; but He 'sends down' according to a proper measure as He pleases. Indeed, He is All-Aware and All-Seeing with regard to His servants. (al shura, 27) then He sent down His peace upon His messenger. (9:26). And sent down on you Manna and Salwa Then after the sorrow, He sent down peace on you, a slumber that overcame a party of you. (3:154). We have indee sent down raiment to you to cover your shame, and to be an elegant dress; but the raiment of righteousness, that is the best. That is one of the Signs of Allah that they may remember. (7:26). Every body knows that peace is a quality of the human mind and sleep a function of the human
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brain. Animals, garments, green fields, quails (salwa), iron, and other things grow on the soil or come from under it. They do not descend or drop down from Heaven. Nor is their 'descent from Heaven' a description sanctioned by the holy quran. The description of the Holy Quran is quite clear. It says: And He put therein firm mountains on the surface, and He put blessings therein and measured its foods therein into four periods, alike for all seekers. (41:10) Re: Death Of Jesus,evidence From The Quran. by Niyi53(m): 12:24pm On Dec 02, 2009 From this it becomes clear that it is another person that is going to come who would be the jesus. Some people do even think that the mahdi is different from jesus. But they dont read the traditions well. In ibn majah, the holy prophet said there is no mahdi except isa ibn maryam. Meaning they are the same person. A person bearing two names for two different purposes. He is bearing jesus because his duty related to breaking the cross. He is bearing mahdi because of his duty of reformation of islam. Re: Death Of Jesus,evidence From The Quran. by Abuzola 1(m): 5:12pm On Dec 02, 2009 Interesting ! So Abu hurairah misread Nuzul meaning abu hurairah was making blunder, hahaha Allahu akbar. First and foremost you belied sahih bukhari which is the highest book of hadith, secondly you accuse abu hurairah of not knowing what he was saying. Islamic Scholars have agreed that mutawaffiqa in that context means sleep, this is also supported by the hadith above but if we say he die then who is lying, haba remove ur pride and accept the truth. Even Quran says the hour will not come till jesus descend, God said He raised him up in the Quran and the equivalent is descend. But if it is another jesus who is not an angel then how did he manage to ascend talk of descend. Fear Allah and stop misleading people Re: Death Of Jesus,evidence From The Quran. by olabowale(m): 6:24pm On Dec 02, 2009 @NiggerHtr: Living in the slum of South Bronx still does not mean that you have to behave like a hoolum. Common man, grow up. Nigger this, Nigger that. Okay, you are a Whigger, too. Are you happy now? Now lets have our dialogue and if you cant deal with it, go to the Christian section. Am not expecting a respond, please, Whigger. Re: Death Of Jesus,evidence From The Quran. by olabowale(m): 6:40pm On Dec 02, 2009 @Niyi53: #53 on: Today at 12:24:52 PM From this it becomes clear that it is another person that is going to come who would be the jesus. Some people do even think that the mahdi is different from jesus. But they dont read the traditions well. In ibn majah, the holy prophet said there is no mahdi except isa ibn maryam. Meaning they are the same person. A person bearing two names for two different purposes. He is bearing jesus because his duty related to breaking the cross. He is bearing mahdi because of his duty of reformation of islam. The problem with your statement is that there is no need to create 2 Jesus, since Allah attaches Jinn to every human soul created, will there be two Jinns, too? If Jesus is Mahdi, is the Mahdi that he is going to be born again as a baby, since Allah did not say somebody will be created as adult like Adam, or Jesus will be born a second time? I am asking these questions because you at least believe that Jesus will come back. Allah says in Surah Rahman that all persons shall die (perish) and Only the Face (the Whole) of Allah Shall remain. We already know that throughout time, humans will remain until after death overtakes everyone on earth and even in heavens and even death himself will die, hence the only
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time that verse in Rahman shall actually be fulfilled. Are you saying that Jesus will die the second time, if Jesus already die in India as you have alluded? Re: Death Of Jesus,evidence From The Quran. by Niyi53(m): 6:54pm On Dec 02, 2009 Abuzola 1: Interesting ! So Abu hurairah misread Nuzul meaning abu hurairah was making blunder, hahaha Allahu akbar. First and foremost you belied sahih bukhari which is the highest book of hadith, secondly you accuse abu hurairah of not knowing what he was saying. Islamic Scholars have agreed that mutawaffiqa in that context means sleep, this is also supported by the hadith above but if we say he die then who is lying, haba remove your pride and accept the truth. Even Quran says the hour will not come till jesus descend, God said He raised him up in the Quran and the equivalent is descend. But if it is another jesus who is not an angel then how did he manage to ascend talk of descend. Fear Allah and stop misleading people why cant you give evidence to disprove what i have said. Look its not easy to accept the truth. Read the quran very well, you will find out that previous nations in which prophet were sent to, never accepted their messenger just like that. You think you are on the right path because your parents friends family are having the same view like yours. Hazrat Ibrahim, when he told his father and his people the truth, they said is it what their father and grandfather worshipped that is false? They were not ready to accept the truth. When you are also telling the christians to think twice so that they accept islam, do you think its easy? Thats why you would not accept this. I think you said you are a bible scholar? You ought to have come across the verse of the old testament which promised to the jews, second coming of elijah. Till tomorrow, the jews would not believe in christ because elijah is yet to descend. And elijah must first descend before the christ would come. When christ came, they asked him where elijah is, he told them that he is john the baptist. Still they dont believe him. Its not surprising that some muslims would not accept the ahmadiyya view about jesus, but the holy prophet has already said that what happened to the jews would surely happen to the muslims would. All i want is that you refute all i present with evidences from the quran and hadith, not what a scholar says. You know that the holy prophet said that he is leaving two things for us, the quran and his sunna, who ever adheres to it would never go astray. Its not for me to make you believe. Wa ma ala rasuli illal balagul mubin (the duty of the messenger is nothing but the conveyance of the message). Its Allah who would make you to believe. Re: Death Of Jesus,evidence From The Quran. by Niyi53(m): 7:28pm On Dec 02, 2009 @olabowale, i said i believe he is coming, but not the first jesus. Yes there is going to be two jesus, as there were two elijah. You and abuzola have not yet refute my views with the quran and hadith. Whether there is going to be two jinn or not, its not my concern, and what does that has to do with ones faith? Provide the verses which says jesus is in heaven and prove it. It is not possible that jesus die and come back to life again, its against the quranic teachings Re: Death Of Jesus,evidence From The Quran. by Niyi53(m): 8:42pm On Dec 02, 2009 @Abuzola and olabowale. I am still expecting your views in the light of the holy quran and and hadith to refute what i have presented.
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There is a tradition of the holy prophet in kanzul ummal, which fixed the age of jesus at 120 yrs. And there is also another which says 'if moses and jesus were alive, they would have among my followers(tafsir ibn katheer. Is the holy prophet also contradicting himself? Re: Death Of Jesus,evidence From The Quran. by Niyi53(m): 8:43pm On Dec 02, 2009 @Abuzola and olabowale. I am still expecting your views in the light of the holy quran and and hadith to refute what i have presented. There is a tradition of the holy prophet in kanzul ummal, which fixed the age of jesus at 120 yrs. And there is also another which says 'if moses and jesus were alive, they would have among my followers(tafsir ibn katheer. Is the holy prophet also contradicting himself? Re: Death Of Jesus,evidence From The Quran. by Abuzola 1(m): 8:52pm On Dec 02, 2009 Mr man why are you arrogantly denying the truth, i wrote two hadith and two ayats that jesus the son of mary is coming instead you said it is another jesus. Am really scared of ur doctrine. How many jesus son of mary do we ve in the Quran ? One or two, i asked you to tell me which jesus ascended come to talk of descending, was it not jesus the son of mary. Now i know how you guys are herectic. Truely herectic,
@olabowale: niyi and the congregation of ahmadiya disbelieve in the coming of imam mahdi, despite numerous hadith stating that mahdi and prophet isa will meet and argue at masjidil haram on who to give the solah prayer. The ahmadi believe that their indian founder of ahmadiya ahmad ghulam is the mahdi , he had came and gone Re: Death Of Jesus,evidence From The Quran. by Niyi53(m): 9:54pm On Dec 02, 2009 Abuzola 1: Mr man why are you arrogantly denying the truth, i wrote two hadith and two ayats that jesus the son of mary is coming instead you said it is another jesus. Am really scared of your doctrine. How many jesus son of mary do we ve in the Quran ? One or two, i asked you to tell me which jesus ascended come to talk of descending, was it not jesus the son of mary. Now i know how you guys are herectic. Truely herectic,
@olabowale: niyi and the congregation of ahmadiya disbelieve in the coming of imam mahdi, despite numerous hadith stating that mahdi and prophet isa will meet and argue at masjidil haram on who to give the solah prayer. The ahmadi believe that their indian founder of ahmadiya ahmad ghulam is the mahdi , he had came and gone thanks the holy prophet was called a mad man by the meccans. I have already proved from the quran and with traditions that jesus is dead and the holy prophet also stated his age. The idea of jesus been raised to heaven is contrary to the quran. If you can prove it, then your view can be established. Remember that the holy quran also described the holy prophet as ('nazala') descend(65:10-11), but nobody ever thought that the holy prophet came down from the heaven. You can call the Ahmadis whatever name you like. The previous prophet were also called all sort of
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names. So, continue to call us all sort of names. Calling the Ahmadis kafirs because they dont accept your view, is that what the holy prophet taught you? There are some muslim sects who believe that it is ali who suppose to be the prophet and not muhammad (saw), according to you, they are muslims. Some believe ali will even come back. Some belive God is having begining and so on. Go to google and find out yourself. If i give you a website you might be thinking its an ahmadiyya created website (astagfirulla). Re: Death Of Jesus,evidence From The Quran. by Niyi53(m): 9:56pm On Dec 02, 2009 Abuzola 1: Mr man why are you arrogantly denying the truth, i wrote two hadith and two ayats that jesus the son of mary is coming instead you said it is another jesus. Am really scared of your doctrine. How many jesus son of mary do we ve in the Quran ? One or two, i asked you to tell me which jesus ascended come to talk of descending, was it not jesus the son of mary. Now i know how you guys are herectic. Truely herectic,
@olabowale: niyi and the congregation of ahmadiya disbelieve in the coming of imam mahdi, despite numerous hadith stating that mahdi and prophet isa will meet and argue at masjidil haram on who to give the solah prayer. The ahmadi believe that their indian founder of ahmadiya ahmad ghulam is the mahdi , he had came and gone thanks the holy prophet was called a mad man by the meccans. I have already proved from the quran and with traditions that jesus is dead and the holy prophet also stated his age. The idea of jesus been raised to heaven is contrary to the quran. If you can prove it, then your view can be established. Remember that the holy quran also described the holy prophet as ('nazala') descend(65:10-11), but nobody ever thought that the holy prophet came down from the heaven. You can call the Ahmadis whatever name you like. The previous prophet were also called all sort of names. So, continue to call us all sort of names. Calling the Ahmadis kafirs because they dont accept your view, is that what the holy prophet taught you? There are some muslim sects who believe that it is ali who suppose to be the prophet and not muhammad (saw), according to you, they are muslims. Some believe ali will even come back. Some belive God is having begining and so on. Go to google and find out yourself. If i give you a website you might be thinking its an ahmadiyya created website (astagfirulla). (0) (1) (2) (3) (Reply )
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Death of Jesus, Evidence From The Quran

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