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1
DEPARTMENT OF CONSERVATION AND
2
NATURAL RESOURCES
3
ADVISORY BOARD MEETING
4
5
6
7
TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS
8
9
10
11
12 Location: State Capitol Auditorium
13
600 Dexter Avenue,
14
Montgomery, Alabama
15 Date:
February 6, 2010
16 Time:
8:56 a.m.
17
18
19
20
21
22
23 Before: Victoria M. Castillo, CCR #17
0002
1
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: I'd like
2 to start the meeting and call to order the
3 February 6th, 2010 meeting of the
4 Conservation Advisory Board will come to
5 order.
6
I'd like to welcome everybody to
7 Montgomery. The Board is glad that you're
8 able to be here today.
9
The invocation will be given by
10 Bill Hatley. The posting of the colors and
11 the presentation by the Department of
12 Conservation and Natural Resources Honor
13 Guard.
14
And right now I'd like to call
15 on Commissioner Lawley to tell you a little
16 bit about the honor guard before we get
17 started.
18
COMMISSIONER LAWLEY: Thank
19 you, Dan. About a year ago John Thomas
20 Jenkins came to me and said he had met with
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21 enforcement officers in other divisions and
22 they would like to pursue forming an honor
23 guard for the Department of Conservation.
0003
1 And I thought it was a great idea and asked
2 Mr. Sealy to help with whatever they may
3 need. And of course Hobbie was certainly
4 in favor of that.
5
And they have done, I think, a
6 remarkable job. And I'd like to read the
7 mission statement from the honor guard, if
8 I could.
9
"Provide distinguished and
10 honorable representation of the Alabama
11 Department of Natural Resources in times of
12 mourning and celebration. The honor guard
13 strives to make all of us proud by honoring
14 fallen officers, showing respect to their
15 families, and preserving and celebrating
16 the traditions of the great state of
17 Alabama.
18
Dedicated officers donate their
19 personal time and energy to ensure that the
20 honor guard represents the Department of
21 Conservation in the appropriate manner.
22 Its members are volunteers representing all
23 divisions of the Department of Conservation
0004
1 and members are located throughout the
2 state.
3
The honor guard members practice
4 and are available to serve in three
5 zones -- north, central, and south teams.
6 The honor guard is ready to represent the
7 Department at various events and meetings
8 as directed by the Commissioner. The teams
9 are available at a family request for
10 Conservation enforcement officers,
11 retirees, Advisory Board members, and other
12 government and political personnel.
13
The honor guard will be an
14 excellent tool in expanding the outreach
15 efforts of the Department of Conservation.
16
At this time, I would like for
17 everyone to please stand. Mr. Hatley will
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18 lead us in the invocation. If you will
19 remain standing, we will have the
20 presentation of the colors and the pledge.
21
MR. HATLEY: Let us pray,
22 Our Father, we thank you for this day and
23 all of its glory. We thank you for life
0005
1 and all that you provide for us. We pray
2 now that you would bestow thy richest
3 blessings upon this gathering and all of
4 our endeavors. Lead, guide, and direct as
5 we go through life.
6
We ask these things in Jesus
7 Christ's name and for His sake. Amen.
8
COMMISSIONER LAWLEY: Now
9 like to present the colors, presented by
10 the Department of Conservation and Natural
11 Resources Honor Guard.
12
(Honor guard presentation.)
13
COMMISSIONER LAWLEY: If
14 everybody would follow me to pledge.
15
(Pledge of Allegiance.)
16
(Honor guard presentation.)
17
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: Thank
18 you, honor guard. Thank you, Mr. Hatley.
19
For the next order of business,
20 I'd like to introduce the Conservation
21 Advisory Board.
22
The first ex officio member is
23 Commissioner Barnett Lawley -0006
1 Commissioner, if you would kind of show
2 everybody who you are with a little show of
3 your hand there.
4
(Raised hand.)
5
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: Next
6 ex officio member, Dr. Gaines Smith.
7
(Raised hand.)
8
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: And then
9 if you're wondering which districts they
10 come from, we will go by district so you
11 know what district and you can put a face
12 with each district.
13
From District 1, we have
14 Mr. Ross Self and Mr. Bill Hatley.
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15
Ross and Bill -16
(Raised hands.)
17
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: From
18 District 2 we have Grady Hartzog.
19
(Raised hand.)
20
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: From
21 District 3 we have Grant Lynch.
22
(Raised hand.)
23
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: District
0007
1 4 we have Mr. George Harbin.
2
(Raised hand.)
3
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: District
4 5 we have Mr. Raymond Jones and Dr. Warren
5 Strickland.
6
(Raised hands.)
7
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: District
8 6 is represented by myself.
9
District 7 we have Dr. Wayne May
10 and Brock Jones.
11
(Raised hands.)
12
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: And that
13 completes the Advisory Board. Thank you,
14 Board members, for all your services and
15 efforts you-all do for the Conservation
16 Advisory Board.
17
The next order of business is
18 the approval of the May 16, 2009 Advisory
19 Board minutes.
20
Are there any changes to these
21 minutes?
22
UNIDENTIFIED BOARD MEMBER:
23 Move they be approved as presented.
0008
1
MR. HARTZOG: Second.
2
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: We have
3 a motion and a second. And then if so, the
4 minutes stand approved as read.
5
The next order of business is
6 old business. Is there any open issues
7 from previous meetings?
8
(No response.)
9
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: Be it no
10 old business, we will move to the next
11 order of business. It's the public
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12 hearing.
13
When your name is called, please
14 go to the microphone, give your name and
15 subject you wish to speak upon. I will
16 remind you that only you may speak and only
17 at the time that you are called to speak.
18 No interference will be tolerated.
19
First I'd like to call Mr. Tim
20 Gothard.
21
MR. GOTHARD: Tim Gothard,
22 Alabama Wildlife Federation, I'm here to
23 speak to you about Forever Wild.
0009
1
Mr. Chairman, Commissioner,
2 members of the Board, first let me say
3 personally and on behalf of the Alabama
4 Wildlife Federation, we appreciate
5 tremendously what you do here as a Board.
6
One of the things that I think
7 many of you are well aware of, the Forever
8 Wild program is scheduled to expire in
9 2012. Now, the Forever Wild program has
10 been extremely, extremely important to the
11 things that this Advisory Board actually
12 represents.
13
In the 17 years that the Forever
14 Wild program has been around, Forever Wild
15 has purchased about 200,000 acres for
16 public access, for wildlife management
17 areas, recreation areas, and the like.
18
Many of you know that in 2007
19 and 2008 alone we lost around 50,000 acres
20 from our wildlife management areas for
21 public hunting.
22
Forever Wild has been the
23 primary source of our ability in this state
0010
1 to replenish public hunting lands and to
2 expand public hunting lands.
3
If you look at that 200,000
4 acres that Forever Wild has purchased in
5 the last 17 years, I believe around 95 or
6 96 percent of those acres have actually
7 provided public hunting opportunities for
8 our citizens.
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9
Now, that's vitally important.
10 And I think you well know as our population
11 continues to grow, as the value of hunting
12 lands -- private hunting lands -- continues
13 to grow, which is something that we're all
14 for, public hunting lands are going to be
15 extremely, extremely important in
16 maintaining that balance of availability of
17 lands for our citizens to hunt.
18
It is going to be very, very
19 important that we work together to elevate
20 in the eyes of the general public, in the
21 eyes of our legislature the importance of
22 the Forever Wild program thus far and the
23 importance of the Forever Wild program
0011
1 going forward.
2
I wanted to leave for you today,
3 that you can look at at your leisure, there
4 is a group right now -- a coalition -- that
5 is devoted to protecting and reauthorizing
6 the Forever Wild program. It's called the
7 Protect Forever Wild Coalition. As we sit
8 here today, there are 60-plus organizations
9 involved with that coalition -- many of
10 them are in this room. A couple were added
11 yesterday; one last night; one this morning
12 from actually in this room itself.
13
And I would hope knowing that
14 this Advisory Board understanding how
15 important Forever Wild is to our state, to
16 our public hunting areas, to the Department
17 of Conservation and its mission, that this
18 group would entertain going on record in
19 support of protecting and reauthorizing
20 Forever Wild.
21
And I would encourage you as
22 individual Board members to take the time
23 to educate your legislators in your
0012
1 hometown local districts about the
2 importance of the Forever Wild program,
3 especially -- especially with the
4 perspective that you have as a member of
5 the Conservation Advisory Board.
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6
Again, it's a great program. It
7 needs to continue. I'd encourage everybody
8 here to support protection and
9 reauthorization of the Forever Wild
10 program, including the Advisory Board as
11 well.
12
And I will end by complementing
13 Commissioner Lawley on his work thus far to
14 try to help do exactly that. Commissioner,
15 we appreciate that very much.
16
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: Thank
17 you, Mr. Gothard.
18
The next speaker will be
19 Mr. Pete Barber.
20
MR. BARBER: My name is Pete
21 Barber, Alabama Seafood Association.
22
Mr. Chairman, Commissioner,
23 Board members, you're going to see in New
0013
1 Business some changes to the gill net
2 regulations. They were worked at by the
3 Marine Resources and a group of my
4 fishermen.
5
They represent a simplification
6 that I think that will help in the
7 industry, and I'd appreciate your
8 consideration on that.
9
But my real reason for talking
10 here today is we're having a Southwest
11 Regional Archery Tournament at Bryant High
12 School on the 24th and 25th of February.
13 If any of you are in the area, for a
14 nominal fee of $3 -- plus whatever you want
15 to pay for the seafood lunches that are
16 going to be served -- it's delicious gill
17 net caught fish.
18
If you haven't or are not aware,
19 it's amazing to me to see the level of
20 enthusiasm of the kids that get involved in
21 this program. It also helps if they're
22 very successful.
23
But if there's a program at a
0014
1 high school near you, I'd urge that you get
2 involved or at least encourage it. And if
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3 there's not one, maybe consider starting
4 one because you can join all the rest of
5 the high schools that are participating and
6 trying for second place every year.
7
But in fact, if you allow me, in
8 October I believe in Orlando there was a
9 world tournament for high school archers
10 and Bryant High School took third place.
11
COMMISSIONER LAWLEY: Thank
12 you, Pete (inaudible) is a great archery
13 program in the school. And I don't see Ray
14 Metzger, but Gary Moody's group is in
15 charge of archery in the school. And we've
16 either moved into first or in second place
17 in the nation of the largest programs. I
18 mean, it is unbelievably successful.
19
And Ashville, Alabama won the
20 national championship this year and we're
21 proud of that. But it's a good program.
22
And Pete, I appreciate you
23 mentioning it.
0015
1
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: And the
2 state championship will be, is it, in
3 March, April -- I know it's in Birmingham.
4
MR. BARBER: April 22nd, I
5 believe.
6
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: April
7 22nd in Birmingham, Alabama. If you
8 haven't been to that event, you need to go
9 to that event -- unbelievable event.
10
The next speaker will be
11 Mr. Avery Bates.
12
MR. BATES: How are you
13 doing, Mr. Self? How are you doing, Board?
14
My name is Avery Bates. I am
15 vice president of the Organized Seafood
16 Association, and we do love to produce
17 good, fresh seafood in this state.
18
And we are in favor of the
19 motion that Pete and them handed down from
20 the commercial fishing industry. It would
21 help us produce more fish. And the fish
22 that we're trying to catch is real
23 important to our fishermen and to
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0016
1 businesses.
2
We've contacted numerous
3 businesses, and we need to keep them in
4 business with our gill netters.
5
And also while I'm here, on
6 another note, we also with our association
7 we try to help the hunters. Rusty knows
8 when we go up there to help the -- what we
9 call the -- what would you call them -10 Life Hunt, yes -- the Life Hunt and the
11 Wounded Warriors. We've been involved in
12 that two years. We cooked them good wild13 caught Alabama shrimp, fish, oysters, and
14 so on.
15
We enjoy working with the
16 sportsmen, with the Wounded Warriors. We
17 see some great things that the Department's
18 doing and helping with. And Rusty is a
19 part of that and it's a blessing to be able
20 to do that.
21
But we want to let you-all know
22 some of these regulations is desperately
23 needed to keep our fishermen and their
0017
1 families with their occupations. Our
2 occupations have been going on for
3 generations. We want to continue to do
4 that.
5
This has been worked out with
6 the Department. I talked with Ben Harvard,
7 with Pete and them's organization. And our
8 organization is in agreement with these
9 regulations that we want to see passed to
10 help our commercial fishermen.
11
And we want to continue to keep
12 our dealers working, our fishermen fishing
13 and producing Alabama-caught wild seafood
14 for everybody in this state and in this
15 country.
16
So keep us in mind, keep these
17 regulations, so that we can keep fishing.
18
Thank you very much. Has
19 anybody got any questions?
20
(No response.)
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21
MR. BATES: Thank you much.
22
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: Thank
23 you, Mr. Bates.
0018
1
The next speaker will be Randy
2 Jackson.
3
MR. R. JACKSON: Thank you.
4 My name is Randy Jackson with the Sipsey
5 Trout Unlimited in Jasper, Alabama.
6
Specifically I'm requesting the
7 section of the Sipsey River Tailrace from
8 the Highway 69 bridge up to the Smith Lake
9 Dam, which is a total of about three miles,
10 to be designated as no-motorboat waters.
11
This is narrow, as well as
12 shallow waterway. The average width of the
13 waterway -- or actually the narrow
14 channel -- is less than 100 feet, as well
15 as the depth of it is less than six foot
16 during low water nongeneration periods of
17 time.
18
And it imposes the dangers, not
19 only because of the hazards in the water,
20 because of the rocks and the other
21 obstructions during low water.
22
It also causes problems and is
23 dangerous for the nonboaters as well, those
0019
1 that are recreational users.
2
Before coming to you, I made the
3 request on or about the 15th whenever I
4 contacted Captain Patrick with the Alabama
5 Marine Police, who's responsible in
6 Montgomery for the Sipsey Tailrace Boat and
7 Safety Policy, to ask him whether or not he
8 was familiar with this particular section
9 of the river.
10
And I pled with him to come and
11 let me highlight the specific area and let
12 him look at it himself. He had indicated
13 that he had not been on the Sipsey in
14 (inaudible) and was not familiar with the
15 area (inaudible) and that it was only
16 reasonable that if he was making a decision
17 that affected people's lives -- could
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18 affect them -- that come and look at the
19 river specifically himself and that he
20 would personally do that within 14 days of
21 (inaudible) after January 4th.
22
So I told him that I looked
23 forward to hearing in him and that he would
0020
1 come and do that before making any decision
2 or any recommendation about the motorboat
3 restrictions.
4
MS. NUMMY: Time.
5
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: Go ahead
6 and finish.
7
MR. R. JACKSON: Okay, I
8 have three e-mails, because I'm not very
9 well adept in training of marine safety.
10 So what I did is, first of all, is
11 Lieutenant Vines came over in lieu of
12 Captain Pat to begin his e-mail to me -- or
13 actually this is an e-mail that I got
14 that's a copy of a letter that he sent to
15 Captain Pat.
16
Said "I met with Randy Jackson
17 on Sipsey Friday, January 22nd" -- then he
18 concludes by saying "the request should be
19 granted".
20
And then the second e-mail I
21 have is from Tommy Cagle. Tommy was with
22 the marine police for 25 years, and the
23 enforcement officer on Smith Lake -0021
1
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
2 Mr. Jackson, could you sum it up for the
3 Board, please, sir?
4
MR. R. JACKSON: Absolutely.
5 Basically he said that it should be -- the
6 regulation should be enforced, that the
7 shallow water was a hazard for the
8 motorboats to begin with.
9
And then the last piece of
10 expertise I have on this matter is Ms.
11 Davis -- who is in charge of the land
12 management for the Birmingham Water
13 Works -- who also states that she was in
14 support of it as well. And these have been
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15 given to your administrator for copies to
16 be filed and given to the Board members.
17
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: Very
18 good. Thank you, Mr. Jackson.
19
The next speaker will be Steve
20 Brown.
21
MR. BROWN: My name is Steve
22 Brown. I'm from the city of Elmore -23 county of Elmore.
0022
1
Mr. Chairman, Board members,
2 actually what I got is a couple of
3 questions. My topic is about the spoonbill
4 paddlefish.
5
Approximately 25 years ago the
6 paddlefish was put on the endangered
7 species list.
8
And my question is I'd like to
9 know what department put them on the
10 endangered species list?
11
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
12 Mr. Moody, do we know the answer to that?
13
MR. MOODY: Stan -14
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: Stan?
15
MR. COOK: It's not on the
16 endangered species list. There's a
17 regulation that puts a moratorium on the
18 table protecting our fish in Alabama.
19
MR. BROWN: My next question
20 is who's providing the data for the
21 spoonbill populations?
22
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: Stan?
23
MR. COOK: Department of
0023
1 Conservation.
2
MR. BROWN: Department of
3 Conservation is -- anybody specifically
4 that I could speak to in the future?
5
MR. COOK: Steve Rider.
6
MR. BROWN: Steve Rider
7 of -- course my next question is, you know,
8 we'd like to have some kind of idea maybe
9 when we can start fishing for the
10 paddlefish again.
11
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: Stan,
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12 please, sir, if you will respond to all
13 these questions, it'd be great.
14
MR. COOK: Steve Rider has
15 led a research -- Steve Rider, the
16 biologist I mentioned to you a minute ago,
17 has led a research project on the lower
18 Alabama, predominantly below Cleburne Dam,
19 looking at the paddlefish populations.
20 He's completed that work. He's in the
21 midst of writing it up.
22
Once he has it written up, then
23 we will be prepared to possibly allow some
0024
1 loosening of restrictions, at least in the
2 lower Alabama system.
3
MR. BROWN: What's the best
4 way to get in contact with Steve Rider?
5
MR. COOK: He has an office
6 in Auburn, and I don't know his phone
7 number right offhand. But if you will call
8 our number in Montgomery, 242-3241, we can
9 give you that information.
10
MR. BROWN: Gentlemen,
11 that's all I had. Appreciate your time.
12
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: Thank
13 you, Mr. Brown. Thank you, Stan.
14
The next speaker will be David
15 Erickson.
16
MR. ERICKSON: My name is
17 David Erickson. I'm from Shelby County,
18 city of Hoover. I'm here representing both
19 Trout Unlimited chapters in Alabama -- the
20 Cahaba Chapter and the Sipsey Tailrace
21 Chapter, as well as the Birmingham Fly
22 Fishers Club. This represents over 600
23 anglers in Alabama that support our cold
0025
1 water fisheries.
2
With the impending licensing of
3 the Lewis Smith Dam to Alabama Power, there
4 are several improvements that have been
5 proposed and accepted and are awaiting the
6 Federal Energy Regulatory Commission's
7 final approval.
8
Alabama Power has already spent
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9 over $1.2 million in modifications to
10 create a minimum flow on the Sipsey
11 Tailrace.
12
In addition, the water exiting
13 the dam will be oxygenated as part of these
14 improvements. These improvements are being
15 tested now and will be fully operational as
16 soon as the relicensing of the dam is
17 complete.
18
Other improvements that are
19 planned as part of this relicensing process
20 are concrete steps and platforms and
21 multiple areas to provide easier access to
22 the river -- extreme improvements, such as
23 wing-walls and river structure to enhance
0026
1 the habit in the fishery.
2
With these improvements of
3 increased access to the river, increased
4 flows, and increased habitat there will be
5 an increase in fishing pressure on
6 Alabama's only year-round trout fishery.
7
I'm here to propose and ask that
8 you favorably consider a recommendation to
9 stock trout in Sipsey Tailrace on a monthly
10 basis.
11
Today trout are stocked once
12 every other month. Anglers have ready
13 access to trout for approximately two weeks
14 after each stocking. After that, the
15 numbers of fish are dramatically reduced
16 and for the next six weeks are quite hard
17 to come by.
18
I believe we need to be
19 proactive in managing this angling
20 resource, and we should plan for the
21 increased pressure that will inevitably be
22 resulting from the licensing improvements.
23
The minimum flow alone will open
0027
1 up more fishable areas of the river. Areas
2 that today are mere riffles, shoelace-deep
3 will be able to hold trout.
4
There will be more pools, runs,
5 and tailouts that are fishable due to the
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6 implementation of the minimum flow -7
MS. NUMMY: Time.
8
MR. ERICKSON: As a result,
9 more anglers will be -10
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: If you
11 will finish up, Mr. Erickson. Go ahead.
12
MR. ERICKSON: As a result,
13 more anglers will be in the water placing
14 even more pressure on a limited number of
15 trout.
16
As an angler I look forward to
17 additional access to the river. Many of
18 our older anglers and those with children
19 feel unsafe entering the tailwater knowing
20 the steep and hazardous climb they face
21 with degeneration (inaudible) with the
22 addition of multiple concrete steps and
23 platforms, these anglers will return to the
0028
1 Sipsey and they will add to the fishing
2 pressure.
3
Again, a proactive response
4 would be to increase the stocking rate to a
5 monthly basis to accommodate these
6 additional seniors and children that fly
7 our waters with the expectation of catching
8 a trout. Thank you.
9
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: Thank
10 you, Mr. Erickson.
11
MR. HARTZOG: Mr. Erickson,
12 I am an avid fly fisherman. Can I ask you
13 a couple of questions?
14
MR. ERICKSON: Yes, sir.
15
MR. HARTZOG: With the
16 increased minimum flow, how much further
17 down the tailrace will the water stay cool
18 enough to maintain (inaudible) -19
MR. ERICKSON: Right now
20 there's about 12 miles from the -- all the
21 way down to the Mulberry Fork that is
22 considered cool enough to support trout.
23
And when the Mulberry comes in,
0029
1 it's quite warm waters. We don't think it
2 will be any further than that.
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3
MR. HARTZOG: But with the
4 minimum flow?
5
MR. ERICKSON: Even with the
6 minimum flow. The minimum flow is only
7 about an additional 50 CFS.
8
MR. HARTZOG: Have you
9 looked at making sections of that river
10 catch-and-release that would maintain the
11 fishery?
12
MR. ERICKSON: There are
13 several members of Trout Unlimited here
14 today that I think that's one of their
15 proposals, and you'll be hearing that a
16 little bit later this morning.
17
But yes, sir, there is no
18 management -- cold water management of that
19 river right now, so we certainly will
20 support that.
21
MR. HARTZOG: Thank you.
22
MR. ERICKSON: Any other
23 questions?
0030
1
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: Any
2 other questions -- Mr. Lynch?
3
MR. LYNCH: The section of
4 the river that the other gentleman was
5 talking about making no motors allowed, is
6 it the full 12 miles that you're speaking
7 of?
8
MR. ERICKSON: No, sir.
9
MR. LYNCH: What was it?
10
MR. ERICKSON: It's from
11 Highway 69 bridge, I believe, up to the -12
MR. LYNCH: To the dam?
13
MR. ERICKSON: Three miles.
14
MR. LYNCH: So it's a total
15 of three miles of the total of 12?
16
MR. ERICKSON: Yes, sir.
17
MR. LYNCH: Thank you.
18
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: Very
19 good. Thank you, Mr. Erickson.
20
The next speaker will be Mary
21 Carole Jackson.
22
MS. JACKSON: I'm Mary
23 Carole Jackson with Sipsey Trout Unlimited
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0031
1 as well, and I am from Walker County.
2
As you guys were discussing
3 earlier, we are also asking for an
4 artificial lure-only quality zone catch5 and-release section.
6
And so mainly, our focus is with
7 all of this added pressure we're trying to
8 make sure that there are fish for everyone
9 to catch whenever they come down there to
10 fish.
11
So the steps will increase the
12 access, but we're wanting to decrease fish
13 mortality by enacting this artificial lure
14 single hook-only regulation.
15
And it represents only
16 one-twelfth of the river, so only one mile
17 of that would that have that regulation on
18 it.
19
With that being said, Jason
20 Henniger(sic), who is from the Tennessee
21 Wildlife Resource -- he's a Tennessee
22 Wildlife Resource agent -- discussed this
23 as being one of the main considerations we
0032
1 need to focus on to make this a premiere
2 trout stream.
3
Many of our anglers here in
4 Alabama cross state lines to trout-fish, so
5 we're losing a lot of that revenue as it
6 is.
7
But the Board has copies of the
8 different studies that prove that -- one of
9 the main ones is a study called Catch-and10 Release Fishing Effectiveness and
11 Mortality. And in this study they compare
12 natural bait versus artificial bait.
13
And what happens when you use
14 the natural bait, they said that in each
15 case it is reported that artificial lures
16 and flies significantly reduced the
17 incidents of deep hooking and then
18 therefore decreased the rate of fish
19 mortality.
20
So we also have considered -- in
Page 17

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21 other states, you know, people have been
22 concerned about those folks who do catch
23 the fish for food.
0033
1
What they found is there is an
2 initial rejection of this by folks that do
3 want to catch the fish for food. And then
4 they realize "hey, I can stock up right
5 outside that zone and catch more and bigger
6 fish", and so that objection usually falls
7 by the wayside. So that's kind of what
8 we're looking to.
9
Just as a reference, in the last
10 three months I've taught 60 women who are
11 breast cancer survivors, to fish. In the
12 next three months we will have three Boy
13 Scout troops that I will teach, and then
14 the National Wild Turkey Federation group
15 of women. And it would be nice to have a
16 place that they can always come down and
17 catch. I appreciate your time.
18
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: Thank you.
19 Ms. Jackson, hold on. We got some
20 questions from the Board.
21
MR. R. JONES: You
22 referenced several other states -- and I
23 know having fished for trout in Tennessee
0034
1 you're required by special permit or
2 license. I'm just unfamiliar -- is that
3 the case here?
4
MS. JACKSON: Here in the
5 state of Alabama it's interesting because
6 most people think that you do have to
7 (inaudible) a trout stamp. We actually
8 have someone that's going to address that.
9 But we don't have a trout stamp here in the
10 state of Alabama.
11
It would be a great revenue
12 producer, considering everybody thinks you
13 have to have one already. And usually in
14 other states it's $5 to $10.
15
MR. R. JONES: I just wanted
16 to clarify that.
17
MS. JACKSON: We'd love to
Page 18

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18 have that. Any other questions?
19
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: Any
20 other questions from the Board?
21
(No response.)
22
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: Very
23 good. Thank you very much.
0035
1
The next speaker will be Brandon
2 Jackson.
3
MR. B. JACKSON: Brandon
4 Jackson, also from Walker County with the
5 Sipsey TU. I know we're hitting you with
6 a lot today, but one of the things that we
7 want to address with the increase in
8 pressure is the opportunity -- with the
9 flows being increased as well -- is to
10 manage this fishery as a cold water fishery
11 and really make it reach its potential.
12 And one of the things that we're -13
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
14 Mr. Jackson, hold on a second.
15
Could everybody cut their cell
16 phones off, please, so they won't interrupt
17 our speakers.
18
Go ahead, Mr. Jackson.
19
MR. B. JACKSON: One of the
20 things that we have considered is the
21 stocking of brown trout. Alabama Power has
22 set aside funds specifically for the
23 stocking of the Sipsey as part of their
0036
1 relicensing program.
2
We have Wild Hollow(sic) in
3 South Carolina. They provide fish,
4 specifically brown trout, to the
5 Chattahoochee. And they are willing to
6 provide us with fish the last time we
7 spoke. There was even an option that they
8 would provide those free of charge to us if
9 we would provide the transportation to get
10 the fish to the Sipsey.
11
According to the management plan
12 for the Owasee(sic) rainbow trout preferred
13 temperatures actually two degrees warmer
14 than brown trout. Although brown trout
Page 19

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15 survive in warmer temperatures, they prefer
16 temperatures that are two degrees cooler.
17 So they would stay located in that upper
18 reach of the Sipsey where the water is cold
19 coming out of the dam.
20
Jason Henniger(sic) from the
21 Tennessee Wildlife Resources Agency, as
22 well as Chris Martin from the Georgia
23 Department of Natural Resources -- both
0037
1 fisheries biologists -- stated that as far
2 as they were aware every tailwater in the
3 south that stocks trout stocks both
4 rainbows and browns, and when possible they
5 will additionally stock brook trout in
6 their tailraces. So everyone that they
7 knew of, except for the Sipsey, stocks
8 rainbows and browns.
9
The world record brown trout was
10 caught in a tailrace, the Little Red below
11 Greers Ferry Landing. So it is a great
12 place to stock brown trout below tailraces.
13
There are benefits for brown
14 trout, as seen from brown trout stocking -15 and an annotated bibliography and
16 literature review from 2001.
17
It's a more challenging fish for
18 the anglers. It has a lower
19 contribution -- a longer contribution than
20 brook trout or rainbow trout. Greater
21 second-year contributions; faster growth; a
22 higher percent of survival; greater overall
23 survival; and they can withstand some of
0038
1 those warmer temperatures should they
2 arise. We don't see that as being a
3 problem on the Sipsey because of where it
4 is fed below the reservoir.
5
Any questions?
6
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: Thank
7 you, Mr. Jackson.
8
MR. B. JACKSON: Thank you.
9
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
10 Mr. Jackson, did you-all have a packet of
11 information that you-all -- the Board has
Page 20

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12 that?
13
MR. B. JACKSON: Yes, sir.
14 There's one copy provided for the Board.
15 We didn't realize there was -16
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: That
17 will be good. Thank you.
18
MS. NUMMY: I can make
19 copies.
20
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: Robin's
21 got it and will distribute it.
22
The next speaker will be Michael
23 Key.
0039
1
MR. KEY: Thank you,
2 Mr. Chairman, Commissioner, Doctor, all
3 members of the Board -- concerning the
4 trout fishing opportunities we have on the
5 Sipsey Fork and the boating opportunities,
6 I need to address each issue that's been
7 presented by about four different people,
8 but I will try to do it within my time
9 limit.
10
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: Mr. Key,
11 anyone who takes on Mr. Hatley like you did
12 this morning, we'll allow a little extra
13 time.
14
MR. KEY: He's one of the
15 best turkey hunters I have ever known.
16
On the use of motorized boats
17 above Highway 69 bridge, I called Captain
18 Patrick yesterday and asked -19
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: Speak in
20 the microphone, please.
21
MR. KEY: -- and actually
22 asked if we had any data on accidents or
23 fatalities above that bridge. We do not.
0040
1 None recorded, and there's not any. And I
2 asked for the ones up on Smith Lake.
3
It was mentioned that this
4 waterway was only about 100 foot wide in
5 places. Smith Lake is a mile wide in some
6 places.
7
So the point I'm making is we
8 have -- we have trout fishermen, we have
Page 21

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9 saltwater bass fishermen, we have trophy
10 fishermen, local fishermen that utilize
11 that waterway for access. It is public
12 water. It's public water all the way up to
13 the dam. Of course you-all know the
14 definition of public water.
15
So the hazards are no more than
16 you need to know what you're doing. In
17 certain situations and in my opinion if
18 you're -- you know, you just got to be
19 careful if you don't know the water and you
20 don't know how to navigate.
21
On another subject, as far as
22 artificial lure only, I've read the
23 recommendations for regulation and Power
0041
1 Bait is one of the items that's included -2 corn, worms, crawfish, minnows -- all types
3 of natural bait and manufactured bait.
4
Let's take the Berkley Company
5 for example, a huge company that actually
6 has in-house research where they try these
7 products on fish to make sure it's not
8 harmful to these fish and that they can -9 it just goes right through their system. So
10 it's not increasing the mortality.
11
As far as these other natural
12 foods, we all know as kids -- hey, we have
13 all fished with them. And that's what the
14 fish (inaudible) -15
As far as grains such as corn,
16 if you will (inaudbile) that the U.S. Fish
17 and Wildlife Service is telling you, they
18 will give you the prorated percentages of
19 the fish food that is contained in the fish
20 food that these trout are fed with from the
21 time they leave the (inaudible) side. And
22 you will find that it's fish parts; you
23 will find that it's added fats; and you
0042
1 will find that it is crude protein and
2 carbohydrates derived from corn and wheat.
3 And the midget corn that these kids use or
4 these adults use to catch these trout above
5 or on the Sipsey Fork is a processed food
Page 22

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6 that unless you just wanted to -- you don't
7 have to boil that stuff to eat it, you know
8 that. It's processed. We do it to make
9 sure that it is safe, if there are any
10 bacteria in it for human consumption. But
11 that's just a point I'm making.
12
As far as the area that this
13 Trout Unlimited Chapter, Number 639, would
14 like to regulate as only artificial lures
15 is the prime, 90 percent prime area of that
16 waterway.
17
And that's where most of the
18 kids, most of the older adults and families
19 have an area that is clean in the shoals
20 and whatever to actually have an outing and
21 to catch fish.
22
And as far as catch-and-release,
23 we release 3,500 trout seven times a year
0043
1 there. And we have a lot of people that do
2 practice catch-and-release. That's an
3 individual's -- of course their privilege.
4
But a lot of people in our local
5 community carry these fish home for the
6 taking. They want to eat these fish, and
7 that's what they're there for.
8
They're not a renewable resource
9 other than restocking. These fish cannot
10 reproduce in the waters. They're not
11 favorable for reproduction in the Sipsey
12 Fork.
13
If we don't stock fish for six
14 months -- trout for six months, the blue
15 heron, the stripes (inaudible) -- and of
16 course your river otter. And I don't have
17 anything wrong with them because that's the
18 circle of life.
19
But if we don't stock trout, I
20 dare say -- and I'm not a biologist -- but
21 I dare say in six months you won't have any
22 trout in Sipsey Fork. So that's my point.
23
I really don't think that our
0044
1 local people would be in the best interest
2 of the state of Alabama to regulate any
Page 23

advisory board meeting.txt


3 part of the Sipsey Fork, other than the way
4 it's regulated now.
5
We've already got codes and
6 regulations on the books -- and I can
7 present them to you -- showing that some of
8 these things that are being recommended are
9 already covered by state law and
10 regulations.
11
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: Thank
12 you, Mr. Key.
13
Has any one of your group or the
14 previous group gotten with our
15 representative of District 4 -- I believe
16 you're in District 4 -- would be
17 Mr. Harbin?
18
Mr. Harbin, have you heard from
19 any of these folks?
20
MR. HARBIN: No, sir.
21
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: I would
22 suggest that you-all approach and make
23 Mr. Harbin cognizant of all that you-all
0045
1 are approaching the Board with. I think
2 that would help you-all on both sides.
3
Mr. Pugh?
4
MR. PUGH: The Commissioner
5 had asked that Chief of Fisheries, Stan
6 Cook, and I meet with Brandon Jackson -7 which we did for a good while one day.
8
And you're going to see a
9 recommendation from us that was a result of
10 that meeting in our staff recommendations
11 here today that deal with the dealing with
12 the culling of trout.
13
A lot of what this gentleman
14 here just said resonates very strongly with
15 staff, and I hope with the Board.
16
You're hearing from ten
17 individuals this morning advocating
18 stringent regulations. We appreciate those
19 folks because they buy licenses. They're
20 important to us.
21
One of those individuals said
22 that there are roughly 600 people who fish
23 with flies for trout there. Those 600
Page 24

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0046
1 people important to us.
2
But the remainder of the 806,000
3 people over the age of 16 who fish in this
4 state are also important to us -- and that
5 doesn't take into account the kids.
6
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: Thank
7 you, Mr. Pugh. Thank you, Mr. Key.
8
MR. KEY: Thank you, sir.
9
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: The next
10 speaker will be Mr. Chris Smith.
11
MR. C. SMITH: Thank you.
12 I'm Chris Smith from Madison. Good to hear
13 that there are some other fly fishermen,
14 trout fishermen on the Board.
15
I also strongly support the
16 additional stocking of trout every month
17 and the stocking of brown some of the
18 others have mentioned. I'm with the TU
19 chapter at Sipsey, and I'm also a member of
20 the Tennessee Valley Fly Fishermen
21 Association up in Huntsville.
22
We take catch-and-release as a
23 good thing to allow for the trout to grow
0047
1 larger, for there to be more trout in the
2 area.
3
And we are also only advocating
4 for a small section, and that section would
5 be from the pump house -- the Birmingham
6 Water Works pump house -- up to the dam or
7 even back from the dam, maybe at the first
8 bend, which would allow for a lot of people
9 to fish off of the walkways and the big
10 riprap up by the dam. There's maybe a
11 fairly significant section you see a lot of
12 people fishing. They can take fish out
13 from there and below the pump house.
14
So you know, we're hoping you
15 will consider this. You know, the catch16 and-release is something that's done -- and
17 I will just kind of leave you with this
18 point. There are tailraces all across the
19 southeast and across the nation and the
20 surrounding southeastern states -- such as
Page 25

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21 North Carolina, South Carolina, Kentucky,
22 Tennessee, Arkansas, and Georgia -- that
23 have tailrace trout fishing.
0048
1
All of these states have catch2 and-release sections, or catch-and-release
3 of some type -- regulations of some type on
4 their trout streams.
5
So I think that goes a long way
6 in substantiating the point that maybe it's
7 something we need here in Alabama too to
8 improve the trout fishery and to allow for
9 more people to catch more and larger fish.
10 Thank you for your time.
11
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: Thank
12 you, Mr. Smith.
13
The next speaker will be Joseph
14 Smith.
15
MR. J. SMITH: Good
16 morning. No relation to the previous
17 Smith. I am Joe Smith from Pelham, and I
18 appreciate the time here today with the
19 Commission.
20
I'm a life member of Trout
21 Unlimited, and I'm a transfer in the Sipsey
22 Tailrace group from a couple of other
23 states over the years.
0049
1
And over the years I've been
2 very fortunate to fish many tailrace waters
3 -- Maryland, Utah, Missouri, Georgia,
4 Tennessee. And in all cases all of those
5 have special regulations.
6
Now, some of you have heard the
7 argument against catch-and-release, and I'm
8 here to specifically address catch-and9 release as well. We're looking at a small
10 section -- a mile, a mile and a half at
11 most -- of the 12 miles which is fishable
12 for trout.
13
And so with that, we would
14 recommend that you look seriously at
15 controlling the regulations in a small
16 section of that.
17
There are other things that
Page 26

advisory board meeting.txt


18 we've talked about today. We've talked
19 about brown trout. We've talked about
20 special regulation areas. We've talked -21 potentially we've talked about creel
22 limits. We can talk about several other
23 things that help with regulations of the
0050
1 trout fishing experience.
2
But the Sipsey River is one of
3 most pristine rivers that I've fished all
4 over North America, and it's got an
5 opportunity to become a great fishery.
6 It's our only cold water fishery -- year7 round cold water fishery.
8
And if you haven't been on the
9 stream, I would encourage you to take a
10 look because with the added changes, the
11 improvements that are going to be made,
12 it's going to allow a lot more people to
13 been on the waters.
14
And this preservation message
15 that we're talking about will allow for
16 bigger fish, longer life spans of fish. It
17 would provide more fish.
18
And pressure doesn't necessarily
19 get reduced. As a matter of fact, the
20 pressure is going to be increased with
21 access. But we think we will be able to
22 preserve fishing for future generations.
23
I appreciate your time. Catch
0051
1 and release is a good thing, and I hope you
2 consider it. Thank you very much.
3
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: Thank
4 you, Mr. Smith.
5
The next speaker will be Scott
6 Spencer.
7
MR. SPENCER: Scott Spencer
8 from Pelham, Alabama. Good morning,
9 Gentlemen. I'm here as part of the Trout
10 Unlimited chapter.
11
You asked earlier, I believe
12 Mr. Jones or Mr. -- about trout stamps.
13 And yes, all states in the southeast do
14 have them. They range anywhere from $5 to
Page 27

advisory board meeting.txt


15 $15 each.
16
I fished in Tennessee and paid
17 those additional fees. And I know in
18 today's economic times there's a concern
19 with funding. But as addressed earlier
20 with Brandon, Alabama Power is taking on a
21 lot of the cost of these improvements and
22 what we feel like there could be
23 improvement upon is the enforcement of some
0052
1 of the existing rules and regulations or
2 even some of the proposed rules and
3 regulations. And that's where this trout
4 stamp would come in to provide some
5 additional funding for that.
6
So that -- I don't really have a
7 whole lot of extra to say about that. But
8 I do that -- as Mary Carole mentioned
9 earlier -- people expect that, but we don't
10 have it. And it would be a great choice of
11 revenue, I think, to help fund some of
12 these changes we're asking.
13
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: Thank
14 you very much, Mr. Spencer.
15
MR. HARTZOG: Stan?
16
MR. COOK: Yes.
17
MR. HARTZOG: What does it
18 cost us to stock -- restock twice? What
19 does is cost the Department to stock?
20
MR. COOK: We stock a little
21 over 24,000 fish a year, and that's with an
22 agreement with the U.S. Fish and Wildlife
23 Service. We trade them gulf coast stripe
0053
1 bass for rainbow trout stock.
2
We don't raise rainbow trout or
3 any trout in Alabama. We're a warm-water
4 fisheries state. We're not a cold water
5 fishery state. We don't have the
6 capability to do that.
7
So we work up some sort of
8 arrangement with an outside state to be
9 able to do that, so it's an even trade.
10
So to give you a cost figure
11 would be difficult. But if we were to buy
Page 28

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12 them on the open market, it ranges anywhere
13 from $2.50 to about $4 a pound. So it just
14 depends on the size of the fish that you're
15 purchasing as to how expensive it could be.
16
MR. HARTZOG: Could an
17 agreement be worked out to increase the
18 stockings like they're asking and us trade
19 it off for the stripe bass again?
20
MR. COOK: We have
21 approached Fish and Wildlife about that and
22 they are not interested in that.
23
The information that they're
0054
1 provided about Alabama Power is
2 negotiations that our department has had
3 with them through the relicensing, the
4 things that possibly will take place as a
5 result of our efforts -- not the fact that
6 Alabama Power has been such a warm and
7 friendly agency for that. We encouraged
8 them to do that, and they have agreed to do
9 that.
10
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: Any
11 more, Mr. Hartzog?
12
MR. HARTZOG: Yes, one more
13 question.
14
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: Go
15 ahead.
16
MR. HARTZOG: The stocking
17 of brown, will that take any type of action
18 from us or -19
MR. COOK: Yes.
20
MR. HARTZOG: -- to allow
21 the stocking of brown?
22
MR. COOK: Browns are
23 nonnative in Alabama, so our concern is
0055
1 what kind of impact on other fisheries that
2 exists there.
3
As the gentleman talked about
4 earlier, they are more warm-water tolerant.
5 That means they can go lower into the
6 system. That is one of the target areas we
7 have for recovering southern walleye.
8
So we have a concern there. We
Page 29

advisory board meeting.txt


9 haven't said no to it. We just want to
10 evaluate it.
11
And also location of being able
12 to acquire them would be the other thing we
13 have to look at.
14
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: Thank
15 you.
16
Mr. Jones?
17
MR. R. JONES: Are rainbows
18 native?
19
MR. COOK: No, no cold water
20 fish is native to Alabama.
21
MR. R. JONES: Just wanted
22 to clarify that.
23
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
0056
1 Mr. Raymond Jackson, the Commissioner has
2 asked if your information that you had on
3 trout, if you would make it available to
4 their department too, please, sir, in
5 written form?
6
COMMISSIONER LAWLEY: On the
7 brown trout.
8
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: On the
9 brown trout. Very good.
10
Okay, the next speaker will be
11 Bill Sulzby.
12
MR. SULZBY: May it please
13 the Board, my name is William D. Sulzby,
14 Jr., a Cullman County landowner and father
15 of Cathy Sulzby -- who is an avid fly
16 fisher and turkey hunter.
17
As a lad, when I was a teenager,
18 I would read Field & Stream magazine about
19 trout fishing, and then that was only a
20 dream from an Alabama boy.
21
My mother made that dream come
22 true when she carried me to the Smokies and
23 I enjoyed two days of trout fishing. The
0057
1 same mother, then in her last years, was
2 kind enough to get up at three o'clock in
3 the morning, drive me an hour and a half,
4 and let me out in the woods to hunt turkey
5 when I was disabled at the time.
Page 30

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6
We have an opportunity here now
7 in Alabama to improve what trout fishing we
8 have. And I am respectfully requesting, in
9 honor of my parents and for my daughter and
10 for the other young outdoorsmen in this
11 state, that we take advantage of that
12 opportunity.
13
And respectfully requesting, in
14 addition to the other requests that have
15 been made, that there is a no culling
16 rule. And there is a model rule that could
17 be followed that is enforced in Arkansas
18 presently, that that same rule be adopted
19 in Alabama form and enforced in Alabama.
20 That will save a lot of trout.
21
That rule, if I understand it
22 properly, states that if you place a trout
23 on a stringer in a chest in a live well or
0058
1 any other device that's designed to keep
2 that trout, that trout is prohibited from
3 being released back into the waters and
4 must count as one of the creel limit for
5 the party that places the trout on the
6 stringer or any other container designed to
7 contain the fish. Thank you, gentlemen.
8
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: Thank
9 you, Mr. Sulzby.
10
The next speaker will be Steve
11 Honaker.
12
(No response.)
13
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
14 Mr. Honaker -- or maybe I'm mispronouncing
15 -- H-O-N-A-K-E-R, Steve?
16
(No response.)
17
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: Okay,
18 the next speaker then will be Mr. Michael
19 McAlpine.
20
MR. McALPINE: Good
21 morning. My name is Michael McAlpine. I'm
22 from Blount County. And I sent everyone on
23 the Board a letter a few weeks ago
0059
1 regarding the legalization of magnification
2 lenses on archery equipment.
Page 31

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3
And I've been here my entire
4 life in Alabama and have seen the archery
5 sport change. It used to be just a
6 20-yard-max sport. It is now expanded to
7 50 yards and beyond -- but the equipment
8 gets better and better every year, and now
9 the state has legalized crossbows a few
10 years back, which allowed me to start
11 archery hunting again because due to a
12 shoulder injury I was not able to do that.
13
But presently there is a
14 no-magnification-lens on archery equipment
15 in the state right now. If it was
16 legalized, we would be able to choose our
17 equipment to hunt and make cleaner kills
18 better.
19
I myself suffer from vision
20 trouble, as do other people in the state,
21 which requires us to wear glasses or
22 bifocals or whatever, and that becomes a
23 problem when you -- with the blurriness of
0060
1 the sight with the distance from there.
2
And with the -- with the
3 magnification we would see that twig that's
4 out there at 25 yards that we missed with
5 the naked eye. It would just help us make
6 our shot placement better.
7
And other states allow it, so
8 the choice is not available for us to
9 utilize all the technology that's out
10 there.
11
And even with the people that
12 suffer from color blindness, they cannot
13 see that there's red dot sites that's out
14 there. But with that particular state of
15 color blindness, you cannot see red in
16 direct sunlight. So those sites are not
17 available there as well. So if the
18 magnification was there, they have the
19 crosshair to put it there, it would just
20 allow us to use more equipment. Thank
21 you.
22
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: Thank
23 you, Mr. McAlpine.
Page 32

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0061
1
Mr. Harbin, go ahead.
2
MR. HARBIN: Is that on the
3 crossbows or all archery?
4
MR. McALPINE: All archery
5 -- I am sorry. I want it for all archery
6 equipment.
7
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: Thank
8 you, Mr. McAlpine.
9
DR. STRICKLAND:
10 Mr. Chairman -11
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: Yes,
12 Dr. Strickland?
13
DR. STRICKLAND: There are a
14 couple of points that I would like to
15 address. You know, I've shot magnification
16 equipment in tournaments and things of that
17 sort.
18
First of all, archery is a
19 short-range sport. I don't care how good
20 you shoot. It's not a 50-yard -- bow
21 hunting is not a 50-yard game. It's a 20
22 to 25-yard game.
23
In my experience, the lens -0062
1 particularly in hunting conditions, can be
2 really a hindrance because it's keeping
3 them (inaudible) we have them when it's
4 raining. They're almost ineffective in the
5 rain. Most of us probably find ourselves
6 in those kind of conditions -- in foggy
7 conditions, they are very difficult.
8
Maybe on a crossbow they may
9 help. But for a bow and arrow itself I
10 don't see an advantage at all using
11 magnification.
12
And that's one of the reasons
13 why in most states it's not legal because I
14 think it encourages us to take shots that
15 we really should not be taking.
16
MR. McALPINE: That is a
17 very legitimate argument. I personally
18 shoot a crossbow, but I did not want to
19 come and directly put it to crossbows since
20 crossbows are considered archery
Page 33

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21 equipment. So if you made a change from
22 here to there with it, that was my point,
23 you know.
0063
1
And the other issue is once gun
2 season comes in, if Billy Bob has got a 30
3 (inaudible) 6 with a scope sitting next to
4 me and I've got my crossbow if I've got a
5 magnification lens, I'm in violation of the
6 law. We're hunting the same game.
7
DR. STRICKLAND: I
8 understand. You shouldn't have a
9 magnification lens. That's the law.
10
Remember, archery is a short11 range sport. I do not encourage or endorse
12 taking 45 and 50-yard shots. And I
13 disagree with you when you say that the
14 equipment now encourages us to take 45 and
15 50-yard shots. 90 percent of the animals,
16 whitetail deer, in the state of Alabama are
17 killed within 25 yards, and you don't need
18 a magnification lens for that.
19
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: Thank
20 you, Mr. McAlpine.
21
MR. McALPINE: Thank you.
22
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: The next
23 speaker will be Van Collins, III.
0064
1
MR. COLLINS: Mr. Chairman,
2 the Board, Van Collins, III, from
3 Faunsdale, Alabama, the issue on dove
4 hunting. I mailed everybody a copy. I
5 hope they've got it.
6
I'm going to forego the first
7 part of it since it's a three-minute
8 discussion and not tell you that I've been
9 in the business for 40 years. I've done it
10 all my life, and I've studied it just like
11 anybody studies a job. It is my job. It
12 is what I do for a living. I'm not a
13 biologist. I didn't graduate from college
14 as a game biologist, but I've been out
15 there doing it since I was six years old.
16
My two topics that I want to
17 address -- one is not having a set season,
Page 34

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18 a set date, D-A-T-E, or day, either one.
19 Deer season is set yearly -- turkey season,
20 everything.
21
I run a small business in
22 Faunsdale, Alabama. I'm responsible for
23 probably 150 nonresident hunting licenses a
0065
1 year. I'm going into the season right now,
2 with the last season being over, trying to
3 run a business with very little income.
4
I need deposits to run my
5 business. I can't get deposits without
6 booking trips. I can't book trips until I
7 know dates. And in the past up to, I
8 think, four years ago, we didn't know the
9 dates until August -- until August, and the
10 season came in in September.
11
Last year it was fairly timely
12 -- we knew it in May. And I've got people
13 right now wanting to book hunts, and it's
14 become a really big issue to me -- and I
15 think to a lot of other people, too.
16
I think this deer hunting has
17 clouded a lot of people's visions about
18 hunting. I think dove hunting has become
19 more and more popular every year. I know
20 from a standpoint of being in the business
21 and advising people that it has.
22
And there's more and more that
23 are planting fields. When we plant fields,
0066
1 we plant very expensive crops every year.
2 We're trying to teach people to get away
3 from (inaudible) and wheat. And when you
4 plant crops, you have to know a specific
5 date to plant that crop. And any of you in
6 the farming industry know what fertilizer
7 costs now, know what seed costs now. And
8 we have to know the dates to know when to
9 plant a 90-day crop, a 60-day crop.
10
So a preset date that will last
11 five years or whatever would be very
12 beneficial to us in the dove hunting
13 business.
14
The second one is when the
Page 35

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15 season comes in, the first phase, I think
16 last year -- my personal opinion and people
17 that hunt with me -- was absolutely
18 ridiculous.
19
Labor Day weekend people are at
20 the beach, still in the sun. Any of you
21 that have a lab or have a hunting dog take
22 him out there at 85 and 90 degrees and try
23 to pick up 15 doves with him. You better
0067
1 be hunting by a catfish pond where you can
2 cool him down.
3
I think Dr. May's suggestion of
4 the first of October might be a little
5 extreme. That may be a little far into
6 there. A lot of people think they lose
7 doves to weather. You don't lose doves to
8 weather. You lose doves to your neighbors
9 with a spreader and a (inaudible) and
10 wheat. That's where you lose doves in the
11 state of Alabama.
12
I think there ought to be a
13 happy medium struck in the middle of the
14 month. And with the north planning zones
15 and the south planning zones being the 1st
16 and the 15th, I suggested the Saturday
17 after the 15th. That will cut down a
18 little bit on the complaints of the people
19 in the south saying "I had to go two weeks
20 before I could put wheat out and hunt on
21 it". So that's my concern.
22
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: Thank
23 you, Mr. Collins.
0068
1
Do we have any questions from
2 the Board?
3
(No response.)
4
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: Thank
5 you. Then next -6
MR. HARTZOG: One comment,
7 Dan.
8
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: Yes,
9 Mr. Hartzog.
10
MR. HARTZOG: From what I
11 understand, subject to -- a lot of our
Page 36

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12 regulations on migratory birds are subject
13 to federal guidelines and restrictions.
14
So a lot of times, you know -15 I'm a big water fowl hunter, and a lot of
16 times, you know, we think we know what the
17 federal framework is going to be, but until
18 Corky and his guys go to the (inaudible)
19 counsel meetings, they don't know exactly
20 when the parameters of the dates are.
21
But as to the dates, the
22 recommended dates are published as of right
23 now, so you know when the proposed dates
0069
1 are -- subject to those federal
2 guidelines -- will be.
3
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: I
4 think the proposed date was in October last
5 year, wasn't it? Didn't Dr. May -- or he
6 recommended the first weekend in October -7
MR. COLLINS: Three years
8 ago it was August.
9
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
10 Mr. Collins, please let Dr. May address
11 your question.
12
Dr. May.
13
DR. MAY: Mr. Collins, I did
14 recommend, but the Board voted that we open
15 earlier.
16
MR. HARBIN: According to
17 federal guidelines.
18
DR. MAY: Well, the federal
19 guidelines say you can open anywhere from
20 the 1st of September. That's the federal
21 guidelines.
22
I'm going on the reproductive
23 cycle. I don't think we should shoot doves
0070
1 until they are at least 30 days old. And
2 if you figure out the hatching date and
3 the -- and the last week of August, that's
4 going to put it to the last weekend in
5 September or early August -- and excuse
6 me -- October.
7
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: I
8 totally agree (inaudible) -Page 37

advisory board meeting.txt


9
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: Very
10 good. The next speaker will be Anthony
11 Fillingim.
12
MR. FILLINGIM: Thank you,
13 Daniel. I wanted to thank you-all for the
14 opportunity to come up and speak to you.
15
As you know, I made a couple of
16 trips up last year. And the proposal that
17 we have, we're in the south hunting zone -18 and this concerns dove hunting. We're all
19 in favor -- all the major landowners in the
20 south zone are in favor -- of an early dove
21 season, just the opposite of what this
22 gentleman here said.
23
Van, I've been to your place.
0071
1 You've got a beautiful place, got a fine
2 setup.
3
But we have the corn harvest and
4 the millet harvest and all that coming in
5 middle of August, 1st of September. We're
6 literally covered up with birds at that
7 time of year.
8
Later on the 1st of October our
9 birds are -- 70 percent of them are gone.
10 Where they go, I'm not a biologist. I
11 can't say.
12
We've had several meetings with
13 the major landowners in our area. We've
14 had the state biologists involved in our
15 meetings. We've had several of our state
16 representatives and our senators involved
17 in our meetings.
18
We've made sure that we haven't
19 gotten outside the parameters of the
20 federal law from the 1st of September to
21 the second Sunday in January. We've also
22 been told that having an early season will
23 have zero impact on the population of the
0072
1 birds in our area.
2
So it is our request -- and I
3 gave you-all a copy of the dates that we
4 would like to have for the south zone
5 area. There would have to be some
Page 38

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6 adjustments to the north zone -- which I
7 didn't touch them.
8
But you're allowed 70 days in
9 the south, 70 days in the north, with a
10 compiled date of 105 days total. So you're
11 going to have to have 35 days that run
12 concurrently with each other.
13
We would like to have nine days
14 the first part of September. We would like
15 to have a longer time from the middle of
16 October to the middle of November. We feel
17 the Thanksgiving four days is a waste
18 because you're only allowed three days a
19 year. And we would like it to run from the
20 third week in December on over to the
21 second Sunday in January.
22
So those are our wishes. We've
23 talked with some people in Houston County.
0073
1 They've gotten up with people in the
2 adjoining counties next to them in Dale and
3 Geneva Counties, and we have proposed to
4 have a petition done in that area. We
5 would literally have hundreds and hundreds
6 of signatures, if that's necessary. But we
7 approached you-all last year, and I think
8 that's probably going to come up maybe for
9 a vote this year. And if that's necessary,
10 I will do it.
11
And that's -- I wanted you to
12 look at the dates. And if there's anything
13 we need to adjust, we'd be more than happy
14 as long as it's a win-win situation for
15 everybody.
16
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
17 Mr. Fillingim, have you met with -- by the
18 southern zone, I think it would be District
19 1 or District 2, Mr. Self, Mr. Hartzog, and
20 Mr. Hatley.
21
MR. FILLINGIM: We met with
22 them at the beginning of last year, and I
23 have spoken with them over the phone
0074
1 several times, and I've also been in
2 contact with Mr. Lawley on several
Page 39

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3 occasions. So we he have brought this up
4 several times yes, sir.
5
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: Any
6 questions from the Board -- Dr. May?
7
DR. MAY: I'd like to make a
8 comment. I can't see how you feel that
9 you -- your doves are mature even further
10 south than we are here.
11
If we open this year as
12 planned -- I think it's the 4th -- you're
13 talking about a a lot of hatching that
14 occurs and nesting. In August will be
15 hatching, the first week in September.
16
MR. FILLINGIM: Well,
17 they've already hatched four or five times
18 by then, so this will be probably the last
19 hatching of the year.
20
DR. MAY: The ones that
21 hatched -- less -- every seven days old, if
22 it was the third week of August that the
23 nesting started, it would be 14 days old if
0075
1 it was the second week of August. And it
2 would only be 21 days old if it was the
3 first week of August -4
MR. FILLINGIM: Of August?
5
DR. MAY: Right. And back
6 up in the week in July they're only going
7 to be pushing 30 days old.
8
MR. FILLINGIM: We're asking
9 for the second Saturday of September.
10 That's the Saturday after Labor Day. We
11 really don't want to hunt Labor Day
12 weekend. We will if it's there.
13
But we've also consulted with
14 the state biologist and we've been assured
15 through their studies that the parameters
16 set down by the federal guideline was from
17 the 1st of September to the second Sunday
18 of January. And that hunting in those
19 dates of 15-bird limit would have zero
20 impact on the population of the birds.
21
DR. MAY: That's where I
22 disagree with you. The federal
23 government -- while our Department also
Page 40

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0076
1 suggests that we're going to the birth of
2 15-bird bag limit that we only have one
3 season, one 70-day season. And we shoot
4 104 to five days. In fact we shoot 68
5 different days.
6
MR. FILLINGIM: But it's 70
7 days in each zone.
8
DR. MAY: Right.
9
MR. FILLINGIM: So they have
10 70, we have 70.
11
DR. MAY: But what I'm
12 saying is the federal Wildlife suggests we
13 only have one 70-days, if we're going to
14 take a 15-bag limit.
15
MR. FILLINGIM: Well, where
16 does the 105-day total come from?
17
DR. MAY: Because we're not
18 stopping with one 70-day season. We're
19 shooting two 70-day seasons.
20
MR. FILLINGIM: But there's
21 a 105 day total. You can't hunt 140 days
22 statewide. You can have two zones -23
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
0077
1 Mr. Moody, would you like to comment on
2 that and clarify that season for us -- that
3 way we won't speculate.
4
MR. MOODY: The
5 opportunities that are available to the
6 state begin the first part of September and
7 then they run through January the 15th.
8
We can have two zones, and we
9 can have splits within those zones -- up to
10 70 days each zone 15 birds per day. And
11 that's just the rule.
12
Now, where we work within there,
13 that's up to the Board and our
14 recommendations.
15
MR. FILLINGIM: Isn't it 105
16 days total between the two?
17
MR. MOODY: Yes.
18
DR. MAY: But Mr. Moody,
19 that also suggests when they went to the
20 15-bag limit that we do stop dividing the
Page 41

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21 seasons and just have one season.
22
MR. MOODY: There was some
23 discussion about that. And I think they
0078
1 would like for states to have one zone,
2 just for the ease of their regulations.
3
DR. MAY: That was their
4 recommendation.
5
MR. MOODY: But no, sir,
6 they've got the authority to do that. If
7 they wanted it done, they could do it.
8
DR. MAY: They recommended
9 that we do it.
10 (Board members talking over one another.)
11
DR. MAY: They didn't say we
12 had to, but they recommended it.
13
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: Any
14 other questions?
15
MR. FILLINGIM: Mr. Dan,
16 could I make one quick comment and I will
17 -18
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: Yes,
19 sir.
20
MR. FILLINGIM: I would much
21 rather go out in 80 degree heat and kill a
22 limit of 15 birds in 30 minutes than I had
23 go in October and stay out there three
0079
1 hours and kill 12.
2
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: Thank
3 you, Mr. Fillingim.
4
The next speaker will be Darrell
5 Blankenship.
6
MR. BLANKENSHIP: How are
7 you-all? I'm Darrell Blankenship. I'm
8 from Limestone County -9
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: Pull
10 that microphone up and speak in it -- there
11 you are.
12
MR. BLANKENSHIP: Don't
13 nobody usually tell me to talk up.
14
I'm here to speak on behalf part
15 about the exotic animal regulations you-all
16 are trying to pass.
17
From what I've understood -- and
Page 42

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18 I got short notice on it -- I'm sorry about
19 that -- most of this stuff we're already
20 regulated by the UDSA. It seems to me like
21 we're just causing double jeopardy to the
22 small zoo owners.
23
It was brought to my attention
0080
1 that the low zone municipalities weren't
2 going to be affected by this. I don't -3 can't see how that's fair. We're not zoo
4 owners. We're in the process of it. We're
5 putting it right outside you-all's district
6 right in Limestone County.
7
But the training in particular
8 in here that it lists is way mighty close
9 to impossible to get. I mean, that's no -10 there's no feasible way to say "well, I'll
11 give up 1,000 hours this year to go do this
12 training".
13
You-all list in lieu of training
14 we can do a test. Nowhere does it say
15 where you acquire the information on this
16 test or who's spearheading the test,
17 anything like that. There's a lot of gray
18 information in here that it really needs to
19 be taken back and reassessed.
20
Like I said, I am sorry we got
21 here on short notice with it. I will be
22 getting back with you-all, especially
23 you-all two -- you-all are just right
0081
1 across the line from me -- on it with some
2 more questions. We've got some more people
3 up there that was a little advanced on me.
4
But I'd like to see this whole
5 thing taken back and gone over with the zoo
6 owners because some of the stuff in here is
7 just not feasible.
8
I've dealt with animals for a
9 long time now, and it doesn't make any
10 sense. I appreciate it.
11
Are there any questions?
12
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: Any
13 questions?
14
Yes, Mr. Jones.
Page 43

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15
MR. B. JONES: I'd like to
16 get -- Alan, if you could kind of explain
17 what the reason for the stricter and kind
18 of overlap here is?
19
MR. ANDRESS: Sure. You
20 should have a synopsis of the proposed
21 regulation in your packages there. The
22 state law, state statute, requires that the
23 Department of Conservation regulate and
0082
1 create regulations having to do with the
2 sanitation safety, et cetera, on people who
3 exhibit wildlife for public exhibition.
4 And that's what this gentleman here is
5 talking about.
6
I assume that you are not yet -7 you are fixing to apply, you're not -8
MR. BLANKENSHIP: Yes -9
MR. ANDRESS: That's the
10 only reason he's not met with our people.
11
All the other exhibitors that
12 would fall under this have been met with on
13 at least two occasions to go over this
14 regulation with them and chat with them and
15 get their comments and incorporate those
16 comments into the regulation so it doesn't
17 have too great an impact on them and their
18 current operations. And that's what this
19 regulation is about.
20
COMMISSIONER LAWLEY: This
21 stems from the conversation about the
22 tigers. Remember two or three years ago
23 you mentioned that lady?
0083
1
MR. ANDRESS: In a way -2 not actually directly. But yes, people
3 exhibit wildlife. It's not just native
4 wildlife. They also exhibit large exotic
5 animals, some of them dangerous. And it's
6 our experience in trying to regulate these
7 things in the field, as it stands right now
8 we have no regulations at all, nothing
9 specific. So if a person was to have a
10 Bengal tiger in a chicken coop, we really
11 don't have anything to stand on. But
Page 44

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12 that's an extreme case. And I am not
13 saying we've run into that, but that's just
14 an example.
15
And so these regulations here
16 attempt to establish the minimum standards
17 for security on large dangerous animals and
18 minimum standards on sanitation and humane
19 care of other animals.
20
MR. BLANKENSHIP: Can I ask
21 one question?
22
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
23 Mr. Blankenship.
0084
1
MR. BLANKENSHIP: I didn't
2 understand what your question was to him.
3 They stem from what?
4
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
5 Commissioner?
6
COMMISSIONER LAWLEY: Alan
7 had a meeting with a group two or three
8 years ago, and I think it was mainly in
9 regard to tigers and the way some of them
10 were being held in captive, I believe -11 captivity and that -- trying to come with
12 -13
MR. BLANKENSHIP: Don't get
14 me wrong. I have no complaints about
15 you-all's enclosure regulations and stuff.
16 By far most of your exhibitors are going to
17 well exceed them.
18
And I've dealt with the State
19 before, and it was on a cougar. And
20 there's no -- you-all's enclosures are
21 great.
22
The training and all is what I
23 have a problem with.
0085
1
Is there going to be test
2 information made available to us?
3
MR. ANDRESS: Yes -- that
4 test has not actually been formulated yet,
5 but it would be, you know -6
MR. BLANKENSHIP: I mean, am
7 I going to have to be a marine biologist to
8 pass this test?
Page 45

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MR. ANDRESS: No, I don't

9
10 think so.
11
MR. BLANKENSHIP: That's
12 what I'm asking.
13
MR. ANDRESS: We're going to
14 look at some test materials from other
15 states, and there are other states -16 surrounding states -- that also do the same
17 sort of thing. And these regulations are
18 actually somewhat based on those sorts of
19 regulations.
20
And those tests will be probably
21 very similar to what you would experience
22 if you went to Tennessee or Florida.
23
MR. BLANKENSHIP: I knew
0086
1 Florida was going to come in there.
2 They're at the top of the list.
3
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: Thank
4 you, Mr. Blankenship.
5
MR. BLANKENSHIP: Thank you,
6 sir.
7
DR. MAY: Alan -8
MR. ANDRESS: Yes, sir.
9
DR. MAY: Do the UDSA
10 regulations, are they the same as the
11 state's?
12
MR. ANDRESS: The USDA
13 actually -- they regulate. They do
14 regulate people who exhibit animals for
15 public exhibition. Their regulations are
16 nonspecific. They don't include any real
17 specific information about the size, the
18 gauge wire, or any other particular devices
19 that have to be in place to ensure security
20 or humane treatment of animals.
21
So we did not feel like that the
22 UDSA regulations were a lot of help to us
23 in dealing with what we have to deal with.
0087
1
And occasionally -- and I will
2 say most of these exhibitors do a good
3 job. In meeting with them, our experience
4 has been most of them are in compliance
5 with what's proposed or very close to it.

Page 46

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6 There are also some provisions in there to
7 give them some time to come into
8 compliance, and also some variances for
9 those who can come very close to that
10 without making major expenses.
11
But yes, UDSA regulations, we
12 did not find them particularly helpful in
13 dealing with some the issues that we had to
14 deal with, and so we felt like this was
15 necessary.
16
And it's actually required by
17 statute. State statute requires that we
18 create these regulations, and we have never
19 done that before. This is an attempt to
20 satisfy that requirement of the statute.
21
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: Thank
22 you, Mr. Andress.
23
Any other questions from the
0088
1 Board?
2
(No response.)
3
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: Very
4 good. The next speaker will be Brian
5 Blazer.
6
MR. BLAZER: Thank you for
7 allowing me to speak. I'm an animal
8 educator. I do educational programs in
9 schools, and I have been doing educational
10 programs with exotic animals in schools for
11 28 years. I worked for eight years doing
12 it out of the zoo, and the last 20 years
13 I've been in Cleburne County, Alabama out
14 of Heflin.
15
Fifty percent of the proceeds of
16 our educational program go to benefit the
17 schools -- last year $54,000. And it might
18 not sound like much to you, but it's a lot
19 to me -- went into the public schools from
20 my educational program.
21
My concern is I'm already
22 licensed by the state of Alabama for the
23 native wildlife, and I'm licensed by the
0089
1 United States Department of the Interior
2 for migratory birds. I'm also licensed by
Page 47

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3 the state of Georgia for exotic animals and
4 for native animals, and I'm licensed by the
5 United States Department of Agriculture.
6 I've been inspected for 20 years without a
7 problem.
8
These new regulations are going
9 to cause me a lot of expense as far as
10 perimeter fences. It said in the
11 regulations that traveling exhibitors were
12 except. I don't know if that's from
13 another state. Because I do my programs in
14 schools, I'm not open to the public, but
15 nobody clarified that for me.
16
I've never been given a copy of
17 the regulations. They showed them to me
18 several months ago, but my officer just got
19 ahold of me the day before yesterday. He
20 lives ten minutes from my house, and he
21 never brought me a copy of them -- Sergeant
22 Hendricks, he never provided me with them.
23
I have a letter from Scott
0090
1 Laminec, who is the CEO in Cleburne County
2 Wildlife, and he said he's been a -- he's
3 been a Department of Conservation and
4 Natural Resources officer for 23 years.
5 He's known me for 15 years. He does annual
6 inspections at my facility. I've always
7 been in compliance. I've never had any
8 incident with the policies and the laws and
9 that I'm informed about in the
10 regulations. He feels I'm a great asset in
11 my professionalism and dedication to the
12 education of the students in Alabama.
13
I've already had four
14 inspectors. I'm a small business, and
15 another license and another inspection and
16 another following regulations -- I adopted
17 a child three years ago. Nobody's checked
18 on him. I got four inspectors to look at a
19 monkey in the last 20 years.
20
I don't know if you have ever
21 tried to apply for a federal permit to
22 exhibit migratory birds, like hawks and
23 owls, but you could adopt a child a lot
Page 48

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0091
1 easier than you can get this.
2
MS. NUMMY: Time.
3
MR. BLAZER: All I wanted to
4 say -- I'm sorry -5
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: You need
6 to finish up, Mr. Blazer.
7
MR. BLAZER: All I wanted to
8 say is we are really regulated, you know.
9 My baboons that I use are classified as
10 inherently dangerous, or a Class 1
11 dangerous animal. Last year we had 23
12 people killed by dogs in the United States
13 -- four people squeezed to death by big
14 snakes, but nobody in the world was killed
15 by a baboon.
16
The baboons I use in my
17 educational program have been going in
18 schools and doing tricks and teaching kids
19 about primates, one of them is 19 and one
20 of them is 21 years old. They have been
21 working ever since they were babies.
22
My concern is I could get
23 thousands of letters from superintendents
0092
1 of education, principals, school kids -2 these children are happy to write letters
3 for me. And I would have had you-all
4 flooded with letters, but I only had two
5 days notice.
6
But I really am concerned about
7 this. I brought with me today a Rex
8 Nolen -- he is Cleburne County
9 commissioner. He has the backing of our
10 legislator and house of representatives.
11
And when we came in together,
12 they only had me sign and they said you're
13 together so just one of you sign, but Rex
14 might want to say just a few words if you
15 have time. He's Cleburne County
16 commissioner.
17
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
18 Mr. Hartzog or any of the Board want to
19 hear any additional information on it?
20
(Inaudible.)
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21
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: Go
22 ahead. Come on.
23
MR. NOLEN: I'm Rex Nolen,
0093
1 county commissioner of Cleburne County. I
2 appreciate giving me this time. I won't
3 keep up -- I know everybody's got a lot of
4 talk about.
5
I am familiar with Mr. Blazer
6 and the kids in not only Cleburne County,
7 but he goes all over the state and shows
8 these animals. And I think it would be a
9 bad, bad thing for him not to be able to
10 educate these kids. And he's talking about
11 his monkeys, they actually show these kids
12 how to recycle. They take the cans and put
13 them in recycle bins and all, it's pretty
14 interesting. You can go on the Web site
15 and look at that.
16
But you know, he is a small
17 business. And what I can see on some of
18 the regulations that he talked to them last
19 night over the phone that it would put him
20 out of business. You know, perimeter
21 fences for monkeys -- he's got his monkeys
22 in a 10-by-20 fence -- which you-all are
23 requiring a 20-by-20, eight foot tall.
0094
1
Same way with his porcupine.
2 You know, a porcupine, he can't climb.
3 It's on the ground.
4
So you know, I'd appreciate
5 you-all really looking at this regulation,
6 and I think there's about 25 of the whole
7 state of that kind of exhibitors. So you
8 know, it would be an impact on all of
9 them. I appreciate your time.
10
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: Thank
11 you very much, sir.
12
The next speaker will be Nan
13 Fallin.
14
MS. FALLIN: Good morning.
15 My name is Nan Fallin, and my husband,
16 Tony, own a ten-acre zoo in Blount County.
17 And we're here to talk about the proposed
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18 standards of care for wildlife used for
19 public exhibits.
20
Currently we hold a UDSA and a
21 State of Alabama Exhibitors License. The
22 Alabama license allows us to exhibit
23 wildlife. It was our understanding that
0095
1 the term "wildlife" refers only to native
2 Alabama wildlife because the only reference
3 in Title 9 to nonindigenous animals is
4 located in Section 9-11-503, which
5 prohibits the hunting of nonindigenous
6 animals -- like lions, tigers, elephants.
7
Currently our exotic animals
8 which are nonindigenous are regulated by
9 the United States Department of
10 Agriculture. This federal agency requires
11 all individuals, firms, corporations,
12 associations, partnerships, or government
13 to be licensed and maintain their
14 facilities in strict compliance with the
15 UDSA rules and regulations.
16
We believe these rules and
17 regulations should be held as the highest
18 standard, and to require the addition of
19 the proposed standards outlined in this
20 handout would be punitive and unfair to
21 some animal exhibitors.
22
The UDSA regulations apply to
23 all exhibitors equally. We feel that the
0096
1 new standards unfairly target some and not
2 all exhibitors. The implementation of
3 these standards will cause financial
4 hardship and unnecessary burdens on many
5 exhibitors.
6
We believe that the employees of
7 the Alabama Wildlife Fish and Game
8 Department are extremely knowledgeable of
9 native wildlife and that they do an
10 excellent job of protecting, regulating,
11 and handling of those animals.
12
We also know that they are
13 short-handed, and we are concerned that
14 these (inaudible) will overburden the
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15 Department and may result in an unfair
16 assessment of the current handling and care
17 of exotic animals.
18
We believe that the current
19 physical budget of Alabama would prohibit
20 the additional education and training
21 needed by Fish and Game Department to
22 fairly access and enforce the additional
23 proposed standards.
0097
1
You must be a -- if you exhibit
2 animals at all, you must be licensed by the
3 USDA, and they come out several times a
4 year to inspect. Their inspections are not
5 scheduled. They are usually a surprise.
6
The results of these inspections
7 are public review. You can look at them or
8 have them sent or call the UDSA.
9
The USDA requires that records
10 be maintained on all animals purchased,
11 breeding activity, and sales. The UDSA
12 requires that we have an on-call
13 veterinarian 24/7.
14
The rules and regulations of the
15 USDA are extensive and thorough, and we see
16 no reason for additional state
17 regulations.
18
We have successfully been
19 breeding for over 20 years and have bred
20 and 32 different species.
21
How can you expect the Fish and
22 Game Department to become experts on all
23 the animals you have listed, and how can we
0098
1 expect them to treat us all fairly? This
2 is our business, our profession, and our
3 livelihood.
4
Thank you for your time in
5 considering all of our comments.
6
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: Thank
7 you, Ms. Fallin.
8
The next speaker will be Pam
9 Rhodes.
10
MS. RHODES: I am Pam Rhodes
11 from (inaudible) Farm in Tuscaloosa County.
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12 My husband normally takes care of this, but
13 he was not able to be here today and he's
14 actually talked to the representative and I
15 haven't.
16
So I have his notes. He's
17 concerned, as well as me, about the quality
18 of this. Any regulations you make will
19 need be equal to everyone showing animals,
20 either as a traveling exhibit or a
21 municipality facility, as such as a zoo.
22
All of our licenses are forced
23 to comply with regulations. The zoo was
0099
1 not, as far as on some of our stuff.
2 Giving any of these facilities a pass on
3 complaints gives them a distinct unfair
4 advantage over private facilities.
5
We are UDSA-regulated, as
6 everyone has said. We have to go through
7 all these requirements and everything.
8
Whether you're being private or
9 public, you need to consider that as far as
10 being fair on the quality.
11
The traveling exhibitors,
12 exhibitors coming into Alabama from out of
13 state, don't by nature, have the advantage
14 of possibly less regulations that they
15 enjoy in other states -- which gives them
16 the ability to come in and make money from
17 our state.
18
Here we are in the state. We're
19 producing -- we deal with a lot of
20 kindergartners. We educate a lot of the
21 city and county schools in Tuscaloosa.
22 That's a field trip coming to us, so
23 we're -- as far as exhibiting and educating
0100
1 also.
2
Regulations that cannot be
3 enforced on all animals and facilities here
4 in Alabama or traveling into create an
5 unfair business environment for current
6 business owners.
7
Species included and excluded -8 many of the species listed are outside the
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9 scope of being considered native Alabama
10 wildlife, as I believe the law is
11 intended -- such as elephants, rhinos,
12 lions, and tigers. However, there are a
13 few that should not be considered
14 wildlife -- such as ferrets, emus,
15 ostriches. A lot of people have these as
16 pets, not considered as wildlife.
17
Also we're very concerned about
18 the education requirements, as we've been
19 in it for seven years and some of the
20 requirements they're wanting us to do as
21 far as education is kind of unreal.
22
As everyone else has said, we
23 are UDSA-regulated. We have a lot of
0101
1 things that have to be -- guidelines to go
2 by them, and this is our livelihood. It
3 would be a huge expense if we had to go in
4 and make some of these changes that they're
5 requiring.
6
Thank you for your time.
7
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: Thank
8 you. Our next speaker will be Don
9 Epperson.
10
MR. EPPERSON: Mr. Chairman,
11 Board members, Don Epperson from
12 Russellville, Alabama, Franklin County.
13
The last meeting, which I
14 believe it was May, I brought a petition
15 signed by several hundred people to get our
16 turkey dates same as (inaudible) Alabama,
17 March 15th. It's presently now April 1st.
18
We feel there is an abundance of
19 turkeys in our county. Mississippi has a
20 date of March -- I believe March 20th of to
21 August 3rd. We just feel like we can
22 support the extra time.
23
There's still a limit on turkeys
0102
1 you can kill. It's just the amount of time
2 where you are going to have the killing.
3
Five limit, we feel like they're
4 gobbling out on us early. And I appreciate
5 your time. I just wanted to bring it up
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6 again for the Board to consider.
7
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
8 Mr. Hatley?
9
MR. HATLEY: Mr. Epperson,
10 you came, what, last -11
MR. EPPERSON: Last time,
12 yes, sir -- I believe May.
13
MR. HATLEY: Gary, have we
14 worked toward any resolution for this
15 county or this district? We talked about
16 it, I know, last year.
17
MR. MOODY: Yes, sir,
18 Mr. Hatley, our staff has spent time in
19 that county visiting various people and
20 trying to get a feel for what the sense
21 is. There are some people that want an
22 earlier season, but it's the staff's
23 recommendation and supported by the input
0103
1 they're getting from the public that the
2 season is where it needs to be. The
3 recommendation is actually will not -- does
4 not recommend a change.
5
MR. EPPERSON: Who is the
6 input from?
7
MR. MOODY: I can't tell you
8 specifically, but a variety of hunters and
9 landowners and people that they've talked
10 to.
11
MR. EPPERSON: Everybody I
12 -- I haven't talked to one person -- I know
13 there's two people in that county -- and I
14 won't mention their name of course -- when
15 I had my petitions out, went around to pick
16 up my petition, throwed them away.
17
But I haven't had one person -18 hunter, landowner -- that I've talked to
19 that said anything about the -- about it.
20
MR. MOODY: Well, the Board
21 got a letter recently that had the other
22 opinion on it. There are two sides to the
23 issue.
0104
1
MR. EPPERSON: I had
2 hundreds of names on it. How many -Page 55

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3
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
4 Mr. Epperson, clarify for the Board,
5 please, sir, what you were asking to move
6 it to or from?
7
MR. EPPERSON: Well, it's
8 April 1st now, the whole month of April.
9 We're asking to move it to March 15th, like
10 south Alabama. We meet Marion County, and
11 we have an ample supply of turkeys on our
12 county.
13
Like I said, there's still a
14 limit on turkeys you can kill. Five
15 turkeys is all you are going to kill.
16
I have personally, in the 19
17 years I've been turkey hunting, got my
18 limit one time. Two or three turkeys is
19 about all I have ever killed. Three is the
20 max I've ever killed except one year out of
21 19.
22
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: Does the
23 Board have any other questions?
0105
1
MR. HARBIN: Yes, sir. I've
2 talked to several of the landowners in
3 Franklin County about extending the season,
4 and some of them have turkey and some of
5 them don't. So it's a matter of who has
6 them and who don't have them really, I
7 mean, if we extend the season or not.
8
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: Very
9 good -10
MR. HARBIN: Some areas have
11 them and some areas don't.
12
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
13 Mr. Lynch?
14
MR. LYNCH: So apparently
15 you start April 1 to April 30th?
16
MR. EPPERSON: Yes, sir.
17
MR. LYNCH: And you want to
18 switch to March 15th?
19
MR. EPPERSON: Yes, sir.
20
MR. LYNCH: Would you take
21 March 15th to April 15th?
22
MR. EPPERSON: I have never
23 discussed that with anybody. Me
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0106
1 personally, wouldn't bother me.
2
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: Thank
3 you, Mr. Lynch. Thank you, Mr. Epperson.
4
MR. EPPERSON: I've never
5 heard from -- the Conservation biologist
6 never contacted me or anything. I've never
7 heard a word from them.
8
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: Thank
9 you very much, sir.
10
MR. EPPERSON: Thank you,
11 sir.
12
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: The next
13 speaker will be John Boutwell.
14
MR. BOUTWELL: Good morning.
15 My name is John Boutwell. I have a
16 commercial hunting operation in northwest
17 Butler County on Cedar Creek. We do deer
18 hunting. We do turkey hunting.
19
What I want to talk to you today
20 is on the deer hunting portion. Probably
21 95-plus percent, sometimes 100 percent of
22 the hunters that I have come from out of
23 state. Probably 75 percent of the hunters
0107
1 want to hunt the rut. The reason deer
2 hunts want to hunt the rut, you get a lot
3 more deer activity during the rut during
4 daylight hours. You see a lot of different
5 bucks that maybe you don't see other times
6 of the year.
7
Right now the rut is just
8 getting kicked off on our place in south
9 Alabama. It seems like it's getting later
10 and later -- or at least unpredictable -11 each year. What I would request of the
12 Board here is to consider extending gun
13 deer season into February at some time.
14
To me, we have plenty of hunting
15 days in Alabama, gun hunting days,
16 already. There are 70 to 75 days of gun
17 hunting. That's more than enough.
18
If I were king for a day,
19 probably what I would do is put a split
20 season in. Everybody wants to hunt at
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21 Thanksgiving. I would open it probably
22 like we do now, the Saturday before
23 Thanksgiving -- the Monday after
0108
1 Thanksgiving, shut it down. That's ten
2 days.
3
I get tired in December of
4 trying to explain to my hunters why we
5 aren't seeing deer. December is just a
6 dead time in south Alabama.
7
Personally, you know, we could
8 kick deer season back off in January.
9 That's not going to work for the general
10 population because they want to hunt over
11 Christmas. So sometime the last two weeks
12 of December open it back up, run it to the
13 10th -- no later than the 15th of
14 February.
15
It just seems that -- like I
16 said, my personal observation over the last
17 several years is the rut is getting later
18 and later in south Alabama. Like I said,
19 I'm not sure I had actually a rut hunt this
20 year in January. The deer are just getting
21 kicked off right now.
22
I would just like for you to
23 consider this. Thank you.
0109
1
Any questions?
2
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
3 Mr. Boutwell, do you have any access to or
4 heard of any fetus studies to confirm your
5 suspicions of when the rut is?
6
MR. BOUTWELL: Any -7
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: Fetus
8 studies.
9
MR. BOUTWELL: No, I don't.
10 I am noticing dropping fawns in August
11 having, you know, young deer in September.
12
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: That's a
13 pretty good way to confirm that.
14
MR. BOUTWELL: That's a
15 personal observation.
16
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
17 Mr. Moody, do we have any knowledge of that
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18 later rut there or the fetus studies
19 showing an increase in that?
20
MR. MOODY: Not that I'm
21 aware of right there in that area. One
22 thing that we do know -- and we'll be glad
23 to get some of our biologists to work with
0110
1 you, if you would like for us to.
2
One of the things it does
3 sometimes cause a -- some of the deer to be
4 later and to see later activity -- if your
5 buck/doe ratio is not in balance. And if
6 that's the case, then you may be seeing
7 some later rutting activity, but it's a
8 reflection of improper harvest more than it
9 is a change in the rutting season.
10
So I would say at first we need
11 to get some of our biologists to meet with
12 you, and I will be glad to put them in
13 touch with you and then let's see where we
14 go from there.
15
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
16 Mr. Harbin?
17
MR. HARBIN: I think we need
18 to -- instead of extending it into
19 February, we need to look at the small game
20 hunters, too. Because the rabbit hunters
21 only have February for the month to hunt,
22 and there's a good many rabbit hunters that
23 are against it.
0111
1
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
2 Mr. Hatley?
3
MR. HATLEY: Yes, sir, one
4 question. Where do -- you're in the
5 commercial business, right?
6
MR. BOUTWELL: Yes, sir.
7
MR. HATLEY: Where do most
8 of your out-of-state clients come from?
9
MR. BOUTWELL: Up until this
10 year, probably two-thirds came from
11 Louisiana. But this year I had Louisiana.
12 I had hunters from Wisconsin, North
13 Carolina, Georgia, Florida.
14
So typically in the southeast,
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15 but I also get, you know, some from up
16 north. And generally people come to
17 Alabama because of our extended hunting
18 season. It's already closed, and rut
19 happened back in Thanksgiving or November,
20 wherever they came from.
21
MR. HATLEY: That was the
22 point I was trying to get around to is that
23 they have exhausted all of their days and
0112
1 because you -- we have an extended season,
2 then you're wanting us to extend it beyond
3 what it is now to accommodate the
4 commercial venture. Is that what you're
5 asking for actually?
6
MR. BOUTWELL: That's right,
7 yes.
8
MR. HATLEY: Are you
9 familiar with the post-rut mortality?
10
MR. BOUTWELL: No, sir.
11
MR. HATLEY: Gary, when they
12 meet, they need to discuss those types of
13 things. Just some points. Thank you.
14
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: Good.
15 Any other questions?
16
(No response.)
17
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: Thank
18 you, Mr. Boutwell.
19
The next speaker will be Ashley
20 Butler.
21
MR. BUTLER: Hey, everyone,
22 I was going speak on the same subject that
23 Mr. Boutwell spoke on. Most everything I
0113
1 said mirrors Mr. Boutwell, so I don't want
2 to be redundant.
3
The only thing that I would add
4 to it as a possible incentive basically
5 would be additional revenues. On that
6 extended season you could consider selling
7 an extended season tag. I could see that
8 being -- if you charge, say, $30 for
9 in-state and $60 for out-of-state, you
10 could probably see a 45 percent increase in
11 license sales potentially -- probably about
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12 $4 a half million, so that is something
13 that you can consider.
14
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
15 Mr. Butler, where -- do you feel that the
16 rut is extending past into February? Do
17 you have that same feeling?
18
MR. BUTLER: Definitely.
19
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: Where do
20 you feel that's taking place?
21
MR. BUTLER: I live in
22 Covington County. I hunt all over the
23 place. I hunt many states -- midwest,
0114
1 California, Iowa, all different places in
2 Alabama. And it's a little different at
3 different places in the state, but for the
4 majority of the part the very last week of
5 January is when it really starts getting
6 going and we still see rutting bucks up
7 well into February.
8
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: Very
9 good. Thank you very much.
10
MR. BUTLER: Thank you.
11
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: The next
12 speaker will be Nick Davis.
13
We're getting into our dog
14 hunting time of the meeting. Any applause
15 from the gallery, hold it until the end of
16 the meeting, please. It will make it go a
17 little bit faster.
18
MR. DAVIS: My name is Nick
19 Davis from Tallapoosa County in Dadeville,
20 representing the Strut and Grunt Hunting
21 Club in Jacksons Gap, Alabama close to
22 (inaudible) area.
23
We've had multiple problems all
0115
1 year long with dogs being let go on
2 neighboring properties, making their way
3 onto our properties, staying there all day,
4 every day of the week.
5
I have a log in which our
6 conservation officers had told us to write
7 down, which is just from me personally, not
8 other members from our club. And you-all
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9 have a copy of that log in which we have
10 had numerous, numerous dogs on our property
11 every day -- even after the January 15th
12 deadline for dog running.
13
We just need some help with the
14 permit system. We're not looking to outlaw
15 dog hunting at all. You know, dog hunters
16 are -- that's a tradition, and I grew up
17 doing it, and there's a time and place for
18 that. You know, certainly we can all
19 coexist.
20
Our conservation officers need
21 some help in Tallapoosa County. I know we
22 have two of them. And it's hard to enforce
23 anything when you're sitting in a tree
0116
1 stand and you hear somebody drop a tailgate
2 on your property and you get down to go try
3 to go figure out who it is, and they're
4 gone. The dogs come through your property,
5 run your deer off your property that you
6 have worked hard all year long and spent a
7 tremendous amount of money to try to keep
8 there. And by the time you call them at
9 the other end of the county and they get up
10 here, everybody is gone and nothing left
11 but beagles and walkers running around the
12 tree stand.
13
And we had an eight-year-old boy
14 that we was going to try to get his first
15 deer this year on the field that was just
16 beautiful. And I know I sat there before
17 dog season, watching from about 100, 150
18 yards away with binoculars just to see
19 what's in that field and there's deer in it
20 every afternoon.
21
I want you to know that we
22 didn't see a deer in that field after the
23 first day of the season, of gun season. He
0117
1 went there that day trying to kill one of
2 those does, and of course naturally wasn't
3 able to happen because dogs had been all
4 through there.
5
We just need some help where we
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6 can peacefully coexist with, you know,
7 groups that do run dogs. Thank you.
8
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: Thank
9 you, Mr. Davis.
10
The next speaker will be Paul
11 Jeffreys.
12
MR. JEFFREYS: Members of
13 the Board, I'm Paul Jeffreys from Lamar
14 County. My family owns property in Lamar
15 and Marion County, and I've just come here
16 today to thank you-all for our seasons and
17 bag limits in our section of the state.
18 We've had a really good deer season. We
19 ask that you-all just maintain them and
20 don't change, anything keep them the way
21 they are.
22
I'm going to allude to something
23 else that I heard at the meeting. I -0118
1 personally I work for Mississippi State
2 University. I work in contact -- I am in
3 contact with Mississippi hunters every day,
4 and you-all have heard about what other
5 states have done -- other states have done
6 this and other states have done that.
7
I hear a lot from the guys I
8 work with down there at Starkville about
9 how they envy the state of Alabama for the
10 seasons that we have. And they ask me "how
11 do we get those seasons"? And I tell them
12 "well, we have a Conservation Advisory
13 Board". And they say "man, I wish I had
14 that. I wish we had that so we could go
15 and do what you do and tell them how great
16 the hunting is and ask them for help and
17 everything".
18
And so I just wanted to thank
19 you-all for everything that you-all do and
20 for the service that you-all provide to the
21 state. Thank you-all.
22
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: Thank
23 you, Mr. Jeffreys.
0119
1
The next speaker will be
2 Mitchell Loyd.
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3
MR. LOYD: Mitchell Lloyd,
4 president of Four Seasons Hunting Club in
5 Jacksons Gap, Alabama (inaudible) area, the
6 same guy over here. We've got dog hunts
7 who continually drop, run, dogs through our
8 properties. The game wardens have been
9 called, the logs. But they tell us that
10 there's nothing they can do.
11
And basically we're allowing
12 trespassing, and we've got to get some kind
13 of permit system or fines, fees, whatever
14 needs to be done. We've got to have some
15 help as still hunters. There's nothing in
16 there to protect us.
17
And I know this has been brought
18 up in years past. And as far as I know,
19 nothing has ever been -- unless they say
20 they catch them doing something, nothing's
21 ever done.
22
Every hunt, weekend, spend a lot
23 of money down there, a lot of time, and
0120
1 nothing ever gets done. They've told us to
2 come to this meeting. This is my next
3 step. This is my fourth year involved in
4 this particular hunting club. We've got to
5 have some help.
6
And I'm sure of all of you have
7 received letters. We have been writing
8 them for three years, and we don't know
9 what else to do. We don't know what else
10 to do.
11
If we move -- if we move, that's
12 what they're wanting us to do. That's what
13 they're wanting us to do, so we're trying
14 to fight for our rights to keep our land
15 that we've leased and worked.
16
I want to know what you-all
17 think. I want to get you-all's suggestions
18 on the issues and problems instead of
19 everybody coming up here and saying "hey"
20 -21
MR. HARBIN: Which county
22 are you with?
23
MR. LOYD: Tallapoosa
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0121
1 County.
2
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
3 Mr. Lynch, I believe you had a comment.
4
MR. LYNCH: That was my
5 question. You said Jacksons -6
MR. LOYD: Jacksons Gap.
7
MR. LYNCH: Jacksons Gap in
8 Tallapoosa?
9
MR. LOYD: Right on the
10 river. And I would like just to get some
11 of you-all's suggestions today on what do
12 you-all think we should do?
13
MR. HARBIN: I think
14 Mr. Lynch has got the permit system set up
15 now, and he can explain it better than I
16 can because I wasn't at the last meeting.
17
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
18 Mr. Lynch, I believe this is in your area,
19 so -20
MR. LYNCH: It is in my
21 district, so what I'd like to do is spend
22 some time with you-all outside this meeting
23 to understand exactly where you-all are
0122
1 hunting in Tallapoosa County and what your
2 main issues are and then work with the
3 conservation officers, as well as the dog
4 hunting people in that area, to understand
5 what their issues are and then see if we
6 can start trying to get some relief for
7 you-all and hopefully to keep them hunting
8 the way they want to hunt, too. That's a
9 lot of the purpose of what we try to do is
10 to try to find some of that common ground.
11
We do have and have voted on as
12 a Board that the first step we would make
13 in any county going forward would be to
14 implement a permit system first to see how
15 we can use that as a way to find some
16 common ground, too.
17
We do have things that are at
18 our ability as a Board to do, to handle
19 these types of situations, and it's just a
20 matter of me understanding what's going on
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21 there and hearing from our officers on the
22 ground. And then before the end of the
23 year, we could choose to possibly have a
0123
1 vote for a permit system, if that's the
2 route we choose to take.
3
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: Thank
4 you, Mr. Loyd.
5
The next speaker will be James
6 Price.
7
MR. PRICE: Good morning,
8 I'm James Price of Pickens County. I
9 represent D&D Hunting club in north Pickens
10 County.
11
I presented a map of my
12 property. I don't know if you-all got a
13 copy of this. This is my property. Here
14 is my property. The middle ground here is
15 the dog hunting property, and this is where
16 we have a big problem. Because when they
17 turn the dogs loose, just about any way
18 they go, they're going to be on my
19 property.
20
And they implemented a permit
21 system last year, and I hadn't seen any
22 improvement except they're not on the roads
23 like they used to be. They're not standing
0124
1 on public roads (inaudible) but they are -2 and they're not on my property, but the
3 dogs are constantly on my property.
4
They got 3 or 4000 acres, I
5 think, and they hunt almost daily. So what
6 I would like to see is something put in -7 if you're going to keep the permit
8 system -- to increase the size of the land
9 because I don't know how many of you have
10 ever dog hunted -- but if you have, you
11 know it's almost impossible to keep dogs on
12 200 acres of land for very long, especially
13 if you run dogs there daily because there's
14 not going to be on 200 acres of land.
15 They're going to be on my property.
16
So I'd like to see the size of
17 the land raised. Anything would help, but
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18 I'd like to see it go to at least 1,000
19 acres. That way you'd have a -- they would
20 have a lot better chance to keep the dogs
21 contained and not on my property.
22
Second thing I'd like to do is
23 give the local game wardens more authority
0125
1 in regulating the times they can turn dogs
2 loose, you know, put a certain limit on it
3 -- they can only turn them loose certain
4 days.
5
And the third thing I'd like to
6 do is to have the number -- the type dogs
7 that they'd love to have on their permit -8 when they buy their permit -- put how many
9 dogs you got, what type of dogs you got. I
10 know they're supposed to have the tags on
11 them with the permit number, but that way
12 you knew how many dogs, what type of -- you
13 know, if it was Redbones, walkers,
14 whatever, and they're the only hunting club
15 in that area, so that would help the local
16 game wardens maybe identify dogs.
17
We tried to take the dogs -18 first time we did that, got bit. That went
19 out the window. Of course, we're not
20 trying to catch dogs anymore. And it's
21 hard to video dogs. I tried videoing,
22 taking pictures. That's pretty hard to do
23 too when you're trying to deer hunt.
0126
1
So I would like to -- if you're
2 going to keep the permit system in place -3 put some more regulations in there. And
4 like the gentleman that was here before me
5 we got two game wardens in a big county.
6 So normally when you call them, by the time
7 they get there, the dogs are gone or
8 whatever. So you don't have any proof that
9 there were any dogs there.
10
So I would, like I say, strongly
11 hope you would think about increasing the
12 regulations on the permit system. Thank
13 you very much.
14
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: Thank
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15 you, Mr. Price. The next speaker will be
16 Don Knight.
17
MR. KNIGHT: Good morning.
18 I'm Don Knight. I live in Anniston. I
19 hunt in Barbour County and Talladega
20 County. I'm the state president of the
21 Alabama Dog Hunter Association. I am also
22 the president and huntmaster of the Double
23 Oak Buck Hunt in Barbour County.
0127
1
I'd like to take this minute
2 just to thank you gentlemen again for
3 implementing the permit system in an effort
4 to help us solve some of these problems
5 with the dog hunters versus the still
6 hunters.
7
With the calls I've got this
8 year, seemed like we had a pretty good
9 year. I understand there's some people
10 here that's got some problems. I've
11 already given some of these gentlemen my
12 card. I will try to find out who the clubs
13 are. We will try to contact these clubs
14 and see if they want to work with us in an
15 effort to better these folks and see that
16 they get to keep hunting.
17
We will try that. If that
18 doesn't work, I will be the first one to
19 come back to you and tell you to outlaw
20 them. We don't need them. We don't want
21 them. We want the good clubs to keep
22 hunting. We cannot afford in the state of
23 Alabama to lose any more hunters. We're
0128
1 losing them each and every year, and we
2 don't need to lose them.
3
When we cut out some form of
4 hunting, all we've done is done the animal
5 rights activists' jobs for them. We have
6 ended some form of hunting. We have taken
7 people out of hunting, and that's what
8 they'd like to do.
9
We will work with any of them.
10 And one more thing I'd like to recommend,
11 too -- I think you probably already do it.
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12 But I would like to recommend that you be
13 sure before you ask somebody to put
14 somebody on a permit system to talk to both
15 sides. Be sure that we talk to both
16 sides.
17
A couple of things I'd run into
18 this year when people have called me and
19 they've had a little problem. And they say
20 "this man's going to put us on the permit
21 system". Well, he can't put them on the
22 permit system. He's got to come to you,
23 and then we listen to both sides. We will
0129
1 be glad to work with you anytime. I'm
2 retired now. If you need me to go to a
3 meeting with you, contact me and I will
4 go.
5
Just see both sides. We've run
6 into some cases where there have been
7 personal problems between individuals in
8 both clubs (inaudible) we've run into some
9 people wanting to get the land away from
10 the people so they can hunt it or lease it
11 or do those favors. These are just things
12 you have to look at.
13
Mr. Lynch, I talked with you
14 earlier. I appreciate you working with us
15 and giving us the opportunity on these
16 national forests. We've got that meeting.
17 We have not set a permanent date exactly
18 yet. We're trying to get some people in
19 Talladega County that we have not been able
20 to contact yet. We've got the ones in
21 Cleburne County. We've got the ones in
22 Calhoun County, and we want the ones in
23 Talladega County to help us sit down,
0130
1 organize the groups that are going to be
2 hunting on the national forest so we can
3 have some accountability on the dog hunters
4 and they will be taken care of.
5
Gentlemen, if you have any
6 questions, I will be glad to answer them
7 for you. Again, we appreciate you working
8 with us. Let's take this permit system and
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9 make it work for the good of all. And we
10 appreciate it.
11
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: Thank
12 you, Mr. Knight. The next speaker will be
13 Susan Morrow.
14
MS. MORROW: Good morning,
15 Chairman, members of the Board. I'm Susan
16 Morrow. I'm from Mobile. I'm here again
17 to ask you-all -- brought you some more
18 signatures -- for some more dog days on the
19 management areas.
20
This past year, you know, I got
21 to take my great nephew hunting. He's five
22 years old. The only hunting experience
23 he's had has been with the uncle and it's
0131
1 been still hunting. So I got to take him
2 on a dog hunt, and I took him to the Scotch
3 Management Area -- which I think I have
4 mentioned this to you-all before -- it is
5 one of the best organized dog hunts you
6 will go on.
7
And he was so excited. He had
8 to do good in school. He -- every day I
9 called to make sure. And all he wanted to
10 know is when can he go again. How come he
11 can't go but twice a year?
12
And his teacher, his parents,
13 everybody seen a big change in him because
14 he had to do a lot of things to get to go
15 with me on the hunt. And he's willing to
16 do that. And if you could have just seen
17 how excited he was and the kids that get to
18 do this. And you know we only have 37
19 management areas, and we only have four
20 that we're allowed to dog hunt.
21
When you look at the days that
22 we have for dog hunting versus the days for
23 bow and arrow, primitive weapon, and stalk
0132
1 hunting, there's not many. And I don't
2 think we've had any problems up there.
3
Bruce Todd and Lynn
4 Roberts(sic), they do a greet job. And it
5 is so good for our youth. And last year
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6 you-all did add more youth days for
7 hunting, and I think the youth would really
8 enjoy this if you-all would really consider
9 adding two more days or whatever you-all
10 would give us. I would appreciate it.
11 Thank you.
12
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: Thank
13 you, Ms. Morrow. The next speaker will be
14 John Perkins.
15
MR. PERKINS: Thank you,
16 Mr. Chairman, Board members. My name is
17 John Perkins. I reside in Danville,
18 Alabama, primarily hunt in Tuscaloosa
19 County with Buck Horn Hunting Club.
20
I'm really not coming for the
21 dog situation, even though we do still beg
22 and plead.
23
What I'm coming and asking about
0133
1 is supplement feeding for our deer herds in
2 the state of Alabama. I feel like we're
3 lagging on our trophy deer that we are
4 trying to raise in this area. We're trying
5 to compete with other states. And I feel
6 like that the only way we're going to be
7 able to compete with them is to go to some
8 kind of supplement feeding, and I would
9 like very much for the Board to look
10 further into supplement feeding our deer
11 and see if we can't raise some bigger
12 deer.
13
I've got people that's friends
14 of mine that have high fences. You look at
15 their deer that they're feeding -- yes,
16 some of them are using different genetics.
17 But some of them are getting bigger deer
18 just by feeding them, and I wish we would
19 look at that some way and maybe go to a
20 feeding program somewhere down the road.
21 Thank you.
22
Any questions?
23
DR. STRICKLAND: You can
0134
1 feed now, you just can't hunt over it.
2
MR. PERKINS: True. But if
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3 you feed -- it's my understanding that you
4 can only feed up to a certain number of
5 days before you can go in there and hunt in
6 that same area. So in other words, you've
7 got to have a safe haven basically to feed
8 that you're not hunting them, which is
9 great but also your deer is going to stay
10 in the safe haven area. They're smarter
11 than majority of the hunters.
12
DR. STRICKLAND: So you're
13 interesting in baiting?
14
MR. PERKINS: If you want to
15 call it baiting. Not too much like I've
16 seen it on television where they drive down
17 the road and turn the feeders on.
18
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: Dr. May?
19
DR. MAY: I have a
20 question.
21
Do you know what the area means
22 for the regulation?
23
MR. PERKINS: I've yet to
0135
1 see it defined, unless they've done it this
2 year.
3
DR. MAY: I agree with you.
4 I've been asking everybody, and I can't
5 find how they -6
MR. PERKINS: I can't
7 either. So no, sir, I don't know.
8
DR. MAY: Yes, I agree with
9 you. We need to do something to get back
10 to where it's defined. I don't know how it
11 got in the regulations and there's log out,
12 somebody recognizing that area means from
13 here to eternity.
14
MR. PERKINS: I mean, every
15 man has got his own definition of the word.
16
DR. MAY: Yes, I agree with
17 you. We need to do something about that.
18
MR. PERKINS: Thank you.
19
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: Thank
20 you. The next speaker will Tyler Sansing.
21
MR. SANSING: I'm Tyler
22 Sansing. The reason I'm here today is last
23 year we were placed on a permit system that
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0136
1 we use the dogs in Pickens County. I know
2 and it's intended to help both sides work
3 together. Seems like we've been put on
4 this permit without a good reason.
5
And I'm not sure these
6 complaints were even directed to us, but I
7 don't know of anybody else in the area that
8 uses dogs for hunting and it results in us
9 taking the permit.
10
Mr. Price was up there just a
11 minute ago, and I would like for him to
12 clarify which area he was talking about.
13
MR. PRICE: I'm talking
14 about north of 82 and north of (inaudible)
15 north of back behind McShan Lake.
16
MR. SANSING: Are you
17 talking about behind McShan Lake?
18
MR. PRICE: Behind McShan
19 Lake (inaudible) road, right off 82.
20
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: Excuse
21 me, if you will address the Board and not
22 the audience.
23
MR. SANSING: I apologize.
0137
1 But to be able to talk, I had to know which
2 area he was addressing. That's the area I
3 thought he was talking about and that is
4 not the area we hunt.
5
I have some maps here. Outlined
6 in red is the area that we hunt, and
7 several miles away is Price Road and the
8 McShan Lake that he's referring to.
9 There's not enough to go around, but
10 there's a few.
11
So I'm just asking please be
12 careful about banning dogs and placing
13 other restrictions on such a large area
14 without knowing who all will be affected.
15 His complaints are not directed at us
16 directly, and just please be careful when
17 making restrictions on such a large area.
18 Make sure you get the people that have
19 complaints filed on them.
20
Because we're a safe,
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21 responsible hunting club. Many of the men
22 have been hunting the same club 25, 30
23 years with hardly an incident. And it'd be
0138
1 a shame to have a hunting club this old and
2 this much history shut down. Thank you.
3
Any questions?
4
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: Thank
5 you, Mr. Sansing. The next speaker will be
6 Roger Wilson.
7
MR. WILSON: I want to thank
8 you-all for the time today. I'm a
9 landowner in Tallapoosa county in the
10 Jacksons Gap area. I've already heard two
11 people prior talk about it, and didn't know
12 these people other than one called me one
13 night that one of the game wardens had
14 given him my telephone number, and he
15 called me. He's up in the stands now
16 because he came down here, but I'd never
17 met him before.
18
And told me about an incident
19 that had happened that day, and he was so
20 mad that his voice was quivering. And from
21 what I had seen in the area, he had a
22 legitimate right.
23
I bought my piece of property
0139
1 two years ago, and the first year I was up
2 there I had as many as four different packs
3 of dogs run across my place in one day.
4 And as they say, it goes on seven days a
5 week up there. It has continued after the
6 dog season has ended.
7
The game wardens, both Jeff
8 Brown and Michael East, have reports that
9 they have written up on the area that I
10 think seems to want to do away with the dog
11 hunting in that area because they've had so
12 much problems.
13
One of the reasons that they
14 have a problem is when they come in, the
15 area has a circle around it. And they put
16 a lookout at the beginning of the circle,
17 and they have maps drawn up of the property
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18 that's in that circle. And all the roads
19 are listed by CB channels, and that's how
20 they logistically get around and how they
21 talk over the CB.
22
Now, that information came to me
23 from Jeff Brown, who is the game warden in
0140
1 that area. I have given him the right and
2 the combinations to my gates so that he can
3 go in and do whatever he needs to do to try
4 to catch these people.
5
There has been some violence in
6 the past up there that's wound up in
7 court. I also have a next-door neighbor
8 who is the president of the dog hunting
9 club there that claims that I poisoned his
10 dogs. I'm a dog lover. I have dogs of my
11 own. I used to be a dog hunter many years
12 ago.
13
But I just don't see it being a
14 good, organized dog hunting place up
15 there. And like I said, there has been
16 violence. It has been in Tallapoosa County
17 Courthouse.
18
I brought the person that I
19 bought the property from with me, and it
20 comes off of Boone Valley Road and
21 Hetus(sic) Boone came from all the
22 ancestors back before him. So I got a lot
23 of the how things happened up there.
0141
1
But I can tell you that the dog
2 hunting in that area is not conducted
3 properly, and the people in that area know
4 that they're doing wrong and they're
5 working things out so they get away with
6 it. And I just think in that area the dog
7 hunting needs to stop. And I thank you for
8 your time.
9
Is there any questions?
10
I got maps that will show you
11 how the road goes around and so forth and
12 so on if anybody needs to see it.
13
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: You may
14 want to get with Mr. Lynch afterwards,
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15 Mr. Wilson.
16
The next speaker and last
17 speaker will be Tony Wynn, and we're going
18 to push on through. We only have the
19 Commissioner for a limited time today, so
20 we will try to get into New Business while
21 he's here. So we are going to push on
22 through without a break.
23
Mr. Wynn, go ahead.
0142
1
MR. WYNN: Now you're trying
2 to kill my time. Morning Commissioner,
3 Board members, all of you know me, all of
4 you know why I'm here. We run 10,000 acres
5 in northeast Tuscaloosa County. We used to
6 be a dog club until you-all told us we
7 couldn't be anymore. I'm here today to
8 find out why we can't be.
9
We have researched the past
10 three years all the meetings -- minutes of
11 the meetings three years prior to the day
12 you-all voted to kill our dog hunting.
13
Unless we don't know how to
14 read, our particular area was never brought
15 up under any kind of a discussion until the
16 day you-all voted on it.
17
It's also my understanding that
18 the man that presented the situation -19 vote, whatever you-all call it -- wasn't
20 even over our district. Come to find out
21 Dan Moultrie is.
22
So I'm asking that some of you
23 Board members today have enough man in you
0143
1 to figure out some kind of way that we can
2 get our dog hunting back. Thank you very
3 much.
4
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: Thank
5 you, Mr. Wynn. I think you will hear
6 something about that today.
7
The next order of business is
8 New Business. I'd like to call on
9 Commissioner Lawley to present the
10 departmental request. I also would like to
11 remind the Board that any item to be voted
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12 on at the next meeting must be brought up
13 and discussed at this time.
14
Commissioner Lawley -15
COMMISSIONER LAWLEY: Thank
16 you, Dan. I'd first like to call on John
17 Thomas Jenkins. We're only going to call
18 on the divisions within the department that
19 have legislation that is coming up this
20 session to briefly describe what we're
21 doing.
22
So J.T. -- John Thomas is the
23 director of the Marine Police Division.
0144
1
MR. JENKINS: The only bill
2 that we have this year is we've called it a
3 boat theft bill for a long time. It's one
4 of them that just died and nobody seemed
5 against it.
6
It's a bill to help our boat
7 theft investigators. It basically puts in
8 some and makes it clear if people alter
9 their HIN numbers or the numbers on the
10 boat motors or on trailers and things like
11 that. It provides us some more tools
12 there.
13
It's actually a House Bill 325
14 being sponsored by representative Randy
15 Woods in the House. And Senate Bill 269
16 being sponsored by Senator Jabbo Wagner in
17 the Senate.
18
COMMISSIONER LAWLEY: Next
19 call on Corky Pugh to bring us the Wildlife
20 Freshwater Fish.
21
MR. PUGH: Our division
22 really doesn't have any legislation that's
23 ours that we're trying to push through.
0145
1
But I do have two items for your
2 consideration today. One of them is the
3 seasons and limits recommendations, which I
4 will call on Assistant Director Fred
5 Harders to present.
6
The other is a preliminary
7 recommendation, not to be voted on today,
8 dealing with the wildlife exhibitors. Alan
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9 Andress will handle that.
10
Fred -11
MR. HARDERS: Mr. Chairman,
12 Board members, in your packets you have the
13 proposed 2010/2011 seasons and bag limits.
14 And as was mentioned earlier, these are
15 recommendations from field staff.
16
Basically we've highlighted the
17 major changes in yellow, and they include
18 liberalizing unantlered deer harvest on
19 forest service lands; liberalized
20 unantlered deer harvest on Corps of
21 Engineer lands in Greene, Pickens, and
22 Sumter Counties; adding Coffee, Covington,
23 Dale, and Geneva Counties to the alligator
0146
1 season; and instituting a no culling of
2 rainbow trout in the fishery you've heard
3 of earlier below Lewis Smith Dam.
4
We'll entertain any questions
5 you have now.
6
MR. SELF: Fred, I'd like to
7 make a request for change on the dove
8 season in the south zone to be considered.
9 That would be a September 11th -- opening
10 September 11th through the 19th, and then
11 close and open again on October 9th through
12 November 14th, and then close and open
13 again on December 18th and close on January
14 9th.
15
And that should be 70 days. You
16 can check that out to make sure it is. And
17 of course that it doesn't exceed the 105
18 days.
19
MR. HARDERS: Okay.
20
MR. HARBIN: To the 5th -21 you're opening on the 11th?
22
MR. SELF: Yes, the south
23 zone opening on the 11th.
0147
1
COMMISSIONER LAWLEY: Could
2 you repeat those dates?
3
MR. SELF: September 11th
4 through September 19th, October 9th through
5 November the 14th, and December 8th through
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6 January 9.
7
MR. HARTZOG: So that would
8 conclude the 19th?
9
MR. SELF: Yes. And I want
10 to make a comment about why I'm doing this,
11 too. Over the past year I've been
12 approached by every legislator in Baldwin
13 County and a great number of people
14 requesting this change.
15
I've researched the biological
16 consequences of it and find that the
17 scientists or the science of this is there
18 is no biological impact, and that is
19 confirmed by both the state and federal
20 governments.
21
And after, you know, making all
22 these considerations and personal
23 observations, I've personally have made
0148
1 trips around in the early part of the year
2 and confirmed that there's a lot of birds
3 in Baldwin County and across the south -4 in the south zone in the early part of the
5 season and that they just disappear when
6 we're -- later on when we're opening -7 been opening the season.
8
And I think we've heard a good
9 bit of testimony on that. So it's just a
10 -- it's something I want to recommend. We
11 can vote on it. And if it doesn't pass, it
12 doesn't pass. But I think it's the right
13 thing to do.
14
MR. HARDERS: You may be one
15 day short on this.
16
MR. SELF: Just adjust it a
17 day or so.
18
DR. MAY: I'd like to make a
19 comment on the dove seasons for the north
20 zone. I'm not in position because I didn't
21 plan on giving a new schedule for the
22 season. But during all of the scientific
23 studies I've done, Mr. Self, there's a lot
0149
1 of impact on the early September hunting.
2
All the scientific material I've
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3 seen, and I've been given all, has been
4 studies on what early September hunting
5 effect has on September hatching and
6 fledging. It does not mention any study
7 that's done August or July, and that's two
8 of the better months of hatching that we
9 have -- May, June, July, and August. And
10 it's definitely going to affect the base
11 that you have for raising the -- if you
12 don't care how many doves you have, fine.
13 I know we can't compete with Argentina, but
14 we can be very competitive in the United
15 States. Alabama could be one of the better
16 states for dove hunting if managed right.
17 But I will at the next meeting have a
18 season that I would recommend (inaudible)
19 -20
MR. SELF: I'd just like to
21 make it clear too that I agree with the
22 proposed north zone regulations as they
23 are.
0150
1
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: Speak
2 into the microphone, please, Mr. Self, so
3 everybody can hear you.
4
MR. SELF: I would just like
5 to make it clear that I agree with the
6 north zone season as you have proposed.
7
MR. HARDERS: Any other
8 questions?
9
MR. HARTZOG: I'm the new
10 kid on the block. I'm probably the newest
11 Board member.
12
I would love -- being an avid
13 fly fishermen, I mean I would love to see
14 us look at some type of regulations as the
15 (inaudible) stretch -- artificial flies
16 only, artificial lures only -- and not have
17 a limits -- a catch-and-release section.
18
And just if it passes, it
19 passes. But come back with us with some
20 proposal to vote on.
21
COMMISSIONER LAWLEY: Or you
22 can bring it up when the Board has
23 discussion, Grady, if that's something you
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0151
1 want to address that would be voted on at
2 another meeting.
3
MR. HARTZOG: And I'd love
4 Stan to get with the different trout groups
5 and come up with a recommendation.
6
COMMISSIONER LAWLEY: Thank
7 you, Fred. Alan -8
MR. ANDRESS: If you might,
9 I'd refer you to the synopsis of the
10 proposed relations for wildlife for public
11 exhibition. It should be in your packages
12 if you want to follow along with me there.
13
We've already had some
14 discussion about this subject today and had
15 some public input on that. Section 9-1116 322, Code of Alabama, requires the
17 Commissioner of Conservation to appoint a
18 panel of five experts in the field of
19 conservation, the exhibition and
20 preservation and humane care of public
21 wildlife, who recommend standards of care
22 and security for animals exhibited to the
23 public.
0152
1
In 2007 the Commissioner did
2 appoint that panel of experts, and that
3 panel of experts came back to us with a set
4 of recommendations, on which this draft
5 regulation that you have before you is
6 based.
7
That regulation draft was taken
8 back. Enforcement looked at the draft. We
9 worked on it some. And after that, we took
10 it back to the people that it would most
11 affect, which are the exhibitors, let them
12 look at it. They made comments. Those
13 comments last year were incorporated into
14 the draft. Since that time it was
15 redrafted and taken back to them here
16 recently for comment again. And the
17 results of that is in your hands now.
18
And basically it covers a number
19 of points. It establishes security and
20 structural standards of facilities housing
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21 the most dangerous wildlife -- such as
22 lions, tigers, bears, that sort of things;
23 creates minimum specifications for cage
0153
1 sizes to ensure humane care of other
2 species; requires safety and management
3 plans on these facilities to take care of
4 such issues -- such as human attacks,
5 escapes, or natural disasters that could
6 cause releases.
7
It establishes minimum standards
8 of qualifications for new exhibitors. All
9 existing exhibitors would be exempt from
10 that particular point in the regulation.
11
Provides for general guidelines
12 governing captive wildlife based on safety,
13 sanitation, and the prevention of
14 disease in the captive and native
15 wildlife. But it also builds in some
16 flexibility for existing facilities so that
17 some variances may be granted to minimize
18 the impact on existing exhibitors.
19
And also provide for guidelines
20 on the nutrition, health, and hygiene of
21 captive wildlife.
22
Any questions?
23
MR. BLOXOM: I just wanted
0154
1 to say something real quick. I talked to
2 Mr. Blazer outside. And after
3 understanding his operations better, he is
4 actually exempt from his permit and all of
5 this regulation. He's not actually open to
6 the public, so no one comes to his
7 facilities to view wildlife. He only does
8 traveling exhibits to schools and other
9 programs.
10
So I explained that to him and
11 alleviated some of his concern and probably
12 saved him $25 a year from now.
13
MR. ANDRESS: And now that
14 he mentioned it, talking about the
15 exemptions in those. Those exemptions that
16 were referred to in some of the public
17 comment that you got are not by choice.
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18 Those are by statute. The state statute
19 actually exempts those, so we have no
20 choice but to exempt them also.
21
Any questions?
22
COMMISSIONER LAWLEY: Thank
23 you, Alan. J.T., you-all didn't have any
0155
1 regulations to be considered, did you?
2
We need to go over the regs too,
3 so they could be brought up at the next
4 meeting.
5
MR. JENKINS: We have just
6 had a fairly large group of fishermen that
7 came to us, and of course to make sure
8 garbage is not going in the water was a big
9 concern to them. They had fished in
10 Mississippi and knew that they had had some
11 regulations there that had some
12 requirements on making sure that you didn't
13 throw your stuff overboard, that you had
14 something to put it in to keep it from
15 going out of your boat, and you had a way
16 to remove it off the boat.
17
And they understood we have a
18 lot of things already in our logs and regs,
19 but they had actually asked for a reg just
20 to move that to the forefront in people's
21 minds about keeping the garbage out of the
22 water. So we had a draft reg for that.
23
COMMISSIONER LAWLEY: That
0156
1 was the only reg that we had?
2
MR. JENKINS: Yes, sir.
3
COMMISSIONER LAWLEY: Very
4 good. I think that's actually something
5 that we need to address.
6
MR. SELF: Commissioner?
7
COMMISSIONER LAWLEY: Yes,
8 sir.
9
MR. SELF: Would you like
10 for me to bring that reg up now?
11
COMMISSIONER LAWLEY: Well,
12 when we get through with the Department,
13 then I think Dan's going to call on the
14 Board.
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15
Marine Resources -16
MR. BLANKENSHIP: Thank you
17 for the opportunity to be here this morning
18 on behalf of the Marine Resources Division.
19 We have two bills that the Department -20 from the Department that primarily affect
21 the Marine Resources Division.
22
We have an oyster management
23 bill that's passed out of the Committee and
0157
1 the House, and it's for -- we've developed
2 a comprehensive oyster management plan over
3 the last year working with the industry,
4 with the health department, with our
5 biologists to enhance the oyster reefs in
6 Alabama and to modernize the oyster
7 management in those areas. And that's
8 House Bill 315, and I appreciate any
9 support you can give us with that.
10
And then there's a nonresident
11 pier fishing license bill. That's House
12 Bill 386. We already have a resident
13 license where they can fish off of the Gulf
14 State Pier -- primarily a pier that is open
15 to the public -- but this would allow for
16 nonresidents to purchase a license to do
17 that also.
18
And then we have a few proposed
19 changes to some regulations that are
20 probably in the packet that you were
21 provided. Proposed changes to 220-3-.3, of
22 saltwater fish creel and bag limits -- we'd
23 like to change the list of prohibited
0158
1 species of sharks to conform to the
2 prohibited sharks in federal waters to make
3 us consistent with the federal waters
4 adjacent to Alabama to clarify the
5 language that it is illegal to possess red
6 drum in federal waters for both that we
7 have jurisdiction over in Alabama, and then
8 clarify the condition in which fish may be
9 landed. Would be some changes to that
10 regulation we'd propose.
11
Proposed changes to the use of
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12 nets in harvesting mullet. In working with
13 the industry -- you've heard a few things
14 from them today and some of the other
15 groups down there. We're trying to clarify
16 some things in that regulation that have
17 become burdensome over time and just trying
18 to clarify some things to make it easier
19 for the fishermen that don't really have
20 that much of an effect on the resource; to
21 clarify the time period that the roe mullet
22 permits require; to clarify the mesh size
23 requirement near roe mullet season; to
0159
1 clarify that all fish, other than game
2 fish, can be taken with cast net; to move
3 the date for gill net fishing east of Old
4 Lagoon Pass from May 8th to May 15th; to
5 clarify the times when gill nets may be
6 used in the Gulf of Mexico west of the last
7 house on Dauphin Island; to change the
8 closure for netting in the Gulf of Mexico
9 during the summer holidays, because those
10 areas are mostly covered under a weekend
11 closure already; to have a uniform minimum
12 mesh size of one and a half-inch knot for
13 both inside and outside waters; to clarify
14 the marking of gill net; to clarify where
15 recreational gill nets may be used or
16 possessed; and to clarify that commercial
17 hook and line fishermen cannot possess game
18 fish.
19
So any questions on that list?
20
COMMISSIONER LAWLEY: I'd
21 like to make one comment because I know
22 there's been a lot of suggestions that
23 we've come with a stable regulation and
0160
1 stick with it, and you can always count on
2 Marine Resources to come with a stack of
3 things to change. But it's not by their
4 choice, I can assure you. We'll get
5 pressure from National Marine Fishery
6 Service, from (inaudible) and as the
7 species change -- sometimes it's a
8 migratory pattern, sometimes the amount of
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9 pressure water that's coming out of the
10 state into the Gulf, and we have to adjust
11 to that. And they do to protect that
12 species and do a great job.
13
And as you can tell by what
14 changes that they're offering at this
15 meeting, it's a lot of research and a lot
16 of work. And Chris, thank you.
17
MR. LYNCH: I have one
18 question on the potential closure of oyster
19 waters. Was it a federal agency that was
20 supposedly going to close the waters for
21 the months without "R"s or whatever?
22
MR. BLANKENSHIP: It's not a
23 federal -- that is something that happened
0161
1 through the Interstate Shellfish Sanitation
2 Conference last year. It is not to close
3 the waters for the months with an "R", but
4 for months -- those summer months when the
5 water temperature is above a certain degree
6 that those oysters would have to be post7 harvest processed after -- before they
8 could be shipped in interstate commerce,
9 and that would affect oysters all along the
10 gulf coast.
11
But currently that's -- FDA has
12 changed the position on that since probably
13 what you read in the paper, and they're
14 still studying that and to come up with a
15 further recommendation.
16
COMMISSIONER LAWLEY: Grant,
17 I had the same reaction. You're going to
18 spend billions of dollars to cover
19 (inaudible) -20
Mark, Parks -- you don't have
21 any regs?
22
Does anybody else in the
23 Department have any regs?
0162
1
MR. BLANKENSHIP:
2 Commissioner, I had a couple of more.
3 These are much simpler.
4
There's two bait areas -- open
5 season for taking saltwater bait in the
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6 Point Clear area, and then saltwater taking
7 a bait in the Mullet Point Bay area. We
8 just -- they had some dates opening January
9 1st and closing June 30th as the dates that
10 those bait areas were available.
11
And we'd just like to change
12 that wording so we won't have to come back
13 with any date changes due to environmental
14 conditions, or whatever -- that when those
15 areas are closed to commercial shrimping
16 that they are open for live-bait shrimping
17 in order to provide bait for the public.
18
And then due to the changes in
19 the federal fisheries, we have a regulation
20 that's the open and close seasons for the
21 recreational taking of red snapper. We'd
22 like to change that to the recreational
23 taking of all gulf reef fish and we list
0163
1 those gulf reef fish so that when a species
2 is closed to the taking in federal waters
3 adjacent to Alabama, it will also be closed
4 in Alabama waters.
5
And that was a request from the
6 National Marine Fishery Service to limit
7 any changes in the quotas that would
8 adversely affect the quotas that would
9 shorten the seasons in federal waters if we
10 didn't make that change.
11
And the same thing with
12 commercial taking of gulf reef fish. We'd
13 like to change that to commercial taking of
14 red snapper to the commercial taking of
15 gulf reef fish. And when the areas off
16 Alabama are closed to those species for
17 commercial purposes, they would be closed
18 in Alabama also. And it would clarify what
19 license someone needs to sell those fish in
20 Alabama, and it would list the gulf reef
21 fish species.
22
And that's all, Commissioner.
23
Any questions?
0164
1
Thank you, sir.
2
COMMISSIONER LAWLEY: Does
Page 87

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3 anyone else with the Department have any
4 other regs or statutes?
5
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: Thank
6 you, Commissioner. Now, is there any other
7 discussion that was not on your agenda that
8 the Board would like to bring forth?
9
Mr. Harbin, we will start out
10 with yours.
11
MR. HARBIN: All right, I've
12 got the dog problems in Walker County and
13 Etowah County, and I've been working with
14 Captain Johnson and Officer Fisher in
15 Walker County. Etowah County is Captain
16 Bain and Officer Carrol. And they both
17 suggested just a general warning this time
18 because nobody understands the permit
19 system too good.
20
So if you will, in Walker and
21 Etowah we're asking you-all to get a little
22 better (inaudible) of your own clubs. If
23 you're not, then Captain Johnson and
0165
1 Captain Bain are going to recommend some
2 more restrictions being placed.
3
That's all I have.
4
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: Why
5 don't we just go down the line.
6
Mr. Hatley?
7
MR. HATLEY: Thank you,
8 Mr. Chairman. I've got three items I'd
9 like to bring before the Board at this
10 time.
11
One of them being in light of
12 some of the things that we've heard this
13 morning, especially the report from Tim
14 Gothard, I'd like to propose a resolution
15 that I've drafted. And each one of you
16 have a copy of it. We can vote on this
17 resolution today, and it is in total
18 support of Forever Wild and their
19 continuance in its present stage.
20
And in light of time,
21 Mr. Chairman, since each one has had a copy
22 of this, I don't think we need to read it
23 at length.
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0166
1
But I would like to show our
2 solidarity in this and ask that we approve
3 this resolution.
4
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: And a
5 second -- as opposed to reading it, can you
6 clarify just what it covers one more time?
7
MR. HATLEY: It clarifies
8 simply that we are showing our unanimous
9 effort to keep Forever Wild in its present
10 form and to notify the legislature to try
11 to dwarf any attempts to diluting of the
12 Forever Wild Program and its funding
13 source.
14
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: Very
15 good. Any other discussion?
16
(No response.)
17
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: All
18 those in favor?
19
(All Board members raised hands.)
20
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: All
21 opposed?
22
(No response.)
23
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: Let it
0167
1 be shown that the Board is unanimous.
2
Mr. Hatley -3
MR. HATLEY: The second
4 thing I'd like to do -- and I make this
5 motion with all respect to my good friend
6 and colleague, Dr. Strickland, but I would
7 like to make a motion today that we could
8 vote on in our March meeting.
9
And that being that any hunter
10 pursuing game with a crossbow in the state
11 of Alabama may use a sighting device with
12 enhanced magnification.
13
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: Very
14 good. And we don't need a second on that.
15 We just need to know when it's going to be
16 talked about and we will vote on it next
17 meeting.
18
MR. HATLEY: Correct. And
19 Mr. Chairman, the third thing that I'd like
20 to bring up -- and it has been brought up
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21 by one of our speakers earlier -- and that
22 is a problem that has arisen with our
23 haste, perhaps, to close some areas from
0168
1 dog hunting.
2
I think what happened -- this
3 Board has -- over the years we've had a
4 gentleman's agreement between the Board
5 members themselves that if a problem arises
6 in, say, District 1, for example, and
7 Dr. Strickland or someone finds out about
8 it in the Huntsville area, then he doesn't
9 try to correct that. He comes to either
10 Mr. Self or myself, and we try to work
11 together to rectify that. And I'm
12 cognizant of what is taking place in my
13 district.
14
We had an incident that occurred
15 in a district, two districts, and this
16 Board was either misled intentionally or
17 just through error. And I'm just thinking
18 that it was in error. But the two
19 districts that are involved, of course, one
20 involves the Chair and the other involves
21 the Tuscaloosa district.
22
But what I'm asking,
23 Mr. Chairman, is that between now and our
0169
1 March meeting that the appropriate
2 representatives get together and let's go
3 back and look at the problem and resolve it
4 between now and that time.
5
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: And just
6 to clarify that so we know what we're going
7 to be voting on at the next meeting, that
8 would be the closing of a dog season in
9 Area 6. Is that correct?
10
MR. HATLEY: That's correct.
11
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: Anything
12 else, Mr. Hatley?
13
MR. HATLEY: No, I guess
14 that's all.
15
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
16 Mr. Self?
17
MR. SELF: Yes, I just
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18 wanted to mention the regulation that J.T.
19 has brought up about disposing of trash,
20 and we had some discussion about this and I
21 had some concerns that the reg imposed
22 some -- I won't say undue, but just more
23 regulation than -- just imposes a burden on
0170
1 the fishermen.
2
But after consideration, I think
3 that we reached an agreement that -- and
4 this deals with having a container on board
5 to collect your trash in.
6
I explained to J.T. that I
7 (inaudible) I don't have a whole lot of
8 room to put trash in a -- I don't have a
9 whole lot of room to put a container, and I
10 normally just put my drink cans in the
11 bottom and, you know. And my wrappers or
12 whatever, I try to keep them in my pocket
13 or whatever.
14
But I think there is some danger
15 of this thing blowing out of your boat when
16 you're -- when you're trying to get back to
17 the dock.
18
So we talked about just having a
19 trash bag on your boat, and that would
20 suffice with the regulation, and it's
21 something to keep your trash in.
22
I don't think anybody complains
23 about that.
0171
1
MR. HARBIN: Just a Wal-Mart
2 -3
MR. HATLEY: He doesn't have
4 room for them. He needs a garbage can.
5
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: Thank
6 you, Mr. Self.
7
Dr. Strickland?
8
DR. STRICKLAND: No
9 business.
10
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: Thank
11 you, Dr. Strickland.
12
Mr. Jones?
13
MR. R. JONES: No business.
14
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
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15 Mr. Hartzog?
16
MR. HARTZOG: Just one
17 thing. We passed the resolution for
18 Forever Wild. I had the privilege of
19 serving on Forever Wild for two terms, and
20 it's the best organization and the best
21 program the state of Alabama has ever had.
22
I challenge each and every one
23 of you out there to contact your
0172
1 legislators and tell them how you are in
2 support of Forever Wild because it provides
3 land for you and your kids and their
4 grandkids and (inaudible) and it's you, the
5 voters, out there that can influence your
6 legislator.
7
So call your senator and call
8 your representatives and tell them you want
9 Forever Wild left alone and reauthorized.
10 It's an important thing for the state.
11
If you get the Alabama Wildlife
12 Federation magazine, there's been several
13 articles written on how we lag so far
14 behind the other states. It's ridiculous.
15 And Forever Wild gives us the means of
16 somewhat trying to catch up with the other
17 states to provide public land for you, the
18 people.
19
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
20 Mr. Brock Jones?
21
MR. B. JONES: No business.
22
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
23 Mr. Lynch?
0173
1
MR. LYNCH: Just a couple -2 an ongoing dog deer hunting around
3 Talladega National Forest. Don Knight
4 mentioned it's going to continue to be a
5 study for us out there, and as well as the
6 new situation that's occurred today with
7 Tallapoosa could be an issue for us before
8 the end.
9
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: Thank
10 you, Mr. Lynch.
11
Dr. May?
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12
DR. MAY: I just wanted to
13 mention that we discussed it some already
14 about defining the area around
15 supplementing feeding.
16
And David, could you help us on
17 that to make it legal that we can comply
18 with the statute and if we change the
19 regulation?
20
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
21 Mr. Dean -22
DR. MAY: The word "area" is
23 so vague and no one knows -- I would just
0174
1 like to get it cleared up.
2
MR. DEAN: Yes, sir, we can
3 certainly work on that.
4
DR. MAY: Because I have
5 come up with several ideas, and then I'm
6 told that it's -- you've got to relate it
7 to the statute too, not just the
8 regulation, word it where we can satisfy
9 these people that want to supplement feed
10 and feel comfortable in still hunting on
11 that place.
12
MR. DEAN: We have certainly
13 looked at that before and continue to look
14 at that and work on that.
15
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: Anything
16 else, Dr. May?
17
(No response.)
18
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
19 Dr. Smith, anything?
20
DR. SMITH: No.
21
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
22 Mr. Self, go ahead.
23
MR. SELF: I want to make a
0175
1 motion to approve all the Department
2 regulations.
3
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: Is there
4 a second?
5
(Second.)
6
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: Any
7 discussion?
8
(No response.)
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9
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: A motion
10 made to approve all departmental
11 regulations, all those in favor, raise your
12 hand.
13
(All Board members raised hands.)
14
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: All
15 opposed?
16
(No response.)
17
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: Let it
18 be shown that it is 100 percent vote.
19
Any other business?
20
(No response.)
21
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: Very
22 good. The next order of business is the
23 date and location of the next Advisory
0176
1 Board meeting.
2
The date will be March 13th,
3 2010, and the location will be Gadsden,
4 Alabama at the Elliott Center.
5
Being there's no further
6 business, this meeting stands adjourned.
7
11:42 a.m.
8
*****************
9
10
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13
14
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17
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19
20
21
22
23
0177
1
STATE OF ALABAMA:
2
COUNTY OF MONTGOMERY:
3
I hereby certify that the above
4 proceedings were taken down by me
5
and transcribed by me using computerPage 94

6
7
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9
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aided transcription and that the above
is a true and correct transcript of
said proceedings taken down by me and
transcribed by me.
I further certify that I am neither
of kin nor of counsel to any of the
parties nor in anywise financially
interested in the outcome of this case.
I further certify that I am duly
licensed by the Alabama Board of
Court Reporting as a Certified Court
Reporter as evidenced by the ACCR
number following my name found below.
______________________________
VICTORIA CASTILLO, ACCR# 17, 9/30/10
FREELANCE COURT REPORTER

Page 95

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