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ABetterRationaleforScienceLiteracyTheChronicleReviewTheChronicleofHigherEducation
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ABetterRationaleforScienceLiteracyTheChronicleReviewTheChronicleofHigherEducation
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Jointhediscussion
betterschool 3yearsago
EnjoyablereadBruce.Thanksfortakingthetime.
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schultzjc 3yearsago
Thisisgrand,highflyin'rhetoric.Buttheissueof"whyscience?"needstobe
dividedintotwoparts.Oneiswhatonesaystoinspirethe(talented)student(and
usestomotivateonesself).Dr.Wightman'sapproachisfine,there,ifhecan
makestudentsstopworryingaboutemploymentforamoment.Iusethat
approachwithmytalenteddaughterassheconsiderscollegeapplications.
Thesecondissue,andtheonethatcurrentlydominatesthediscussion,is
justifyingsciencetokeepitaliveandwell.Fundingforscienceresearchand
educationisnotparticularlywell,andthereissomechangeormortality,
dependingonpoliticaloutcomes.Thoseoutcomesdependonwhattheelectorate
andpoliticiansthinkandknow.IassureProf.Wightmanthatneithergrouphasthe
slightestinterestinthetranscendenceofscience.Andpolicyisnotbasedon
scienceitisbasedonotherhumanconcerns(althoscienceisoftenusedto
justifyastance,posthoc).WhatProf.Wightmanseesasmisplacedvaluesis
actuallyadaptiveframingthatrecognizeswho'sintheaudienceandwhatthey
careabout.
IassureDr.Wightmanthatthereremainsalargepopulationofscientistswhodo
whattheydoforthelargerreasonsheespouses.Andfundamental,curiosity
seemore
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cwm4c>schultzjc 3yearsago
I'vepostedthiselsewhereontheCHEblogsrecently.Weshouldbevery
carefulnottodiscountthepublic,especiallyifnotcollegeeducated,
asscientificallyilliterate.Therewasagreatstudyreleasedrecentlythat
showsyoureducationlevelisactuallyinversetoscientific
positions/knowledgeheld.Sothoseofusthatdowell,actuallyreallywell
andgetgraduatedegrees,arelessdiscerning.Culturalbeliefsactually
drivewhatthepublic(andtheacdeme)believeswithscience,andmore
educationonthefactsisactuallydetrimental:
http://www.culturalcognition.n...
Wecontinuetoargueaboutthepublicbeingscientificallyilliterateasthe
problem,toourowndemise.
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jeff_winger 3yearsago
http://chronicle.com/article/ABetterRationaleforScience/129541/
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jeff_winger 3yearsago
Iwanttosuggest,addingtoyourfinalpoint,thatitisaterriblydangerousfollyto
promoteoneformofeducationoveranother.
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Gopher40>jeff_winger 3yearsago
Ponttaken,butirrationaldeemphasisisequallydangerous.I'mnotwilling
tosacrificehumanities,arts,andmusiceither.Igettheimpressionneither
istheauthor.
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JeffBrown>jeff_winger 3yearsago
Notsurewhatyoumean.
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MarjoryMunson 3yearsago
Thisremindsmeofacoupleofmygradeschoolteachers.Althoughtheyhadonly
anormalschooleducation(forthosetooyoungtoremember,thatiswhatthe
earlyteachertrainingschoolswerecalled),andhadtoteachallsubjects,
includingmusicandart,toeightgrades,superviseplaygroundactivities,and
scheduleandsupervisestudentjanitorialactivitiessuchascleaningtheblack
boards,sweepingthefloor,keepingthefurnacefired,andshovelingapathtothe
outdoortoiletinthewintertheylovedlearningandwereabletocommunicatethat
lovetotheirstudents.Scienceisgoodforpromotingthatlovebecauseonceyou
get"into"it,youwanttolearnmoremoresciencemorehumanitiesjustplain
more.
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Gopher40>MarjoryMunson 3yearsago
Aslateas40yearsago,mysisterinlaw,afterhaving10kids,usedher
NormaltrainingtoteachaoneroomschoolintheUpperMidwest.Her
childrencautionedherthatinadditiontoteachingallofthesubjects,she'd
havetoplaysoftballwiththekidsatrecess.Heranswerwas,soyou
don'tthinkIcan't?Shedidquitewellinallactivites.
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22067030 3yearsago
Thisisessentiallytheargumentinfavorofteachingtheliberalartstheyareabout
theworldwelivein.Andunfortunately,thisparticularargumentisgettinglittle
traction.Infact,inthisnation,thevocationalargumentstendtobethemost
politicallysuccessful.Andwhenoneadvocatesa"betterrationale"forsomething,
theissueis"betterforwhat"?Notforlobbyingmystatelegislature...
GLMcColm
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Gopher40>22067030 3yearsago
Andtheliberalartsalsoincludethesciences.
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22067030>Gopher40 3yearsago
Trytellingmylegislaturethat...
GLMcColm
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trishjw 3yearsago
ManyAmericanshavetwomindsintheirknowledgeoruseofscience.Large
numberwillbepositiveaboutdesiretohavecleanwatertodrinkorgrowfoodin,
cleanairtobreatheandfewerchemicalsinthegroundforfarmersandfoodbut
thentheyturnaroundanddemandnoraisesintaxationtopayfortheequipment
neededtokeeptheairandwatercleanorhavelessdifficultylivinghealthilyorin
thecostofmedicationsorhealthcareforthosesamepurposes.Toomanyseem
nottoputthetwoitemstogether.Wecan'tavoidpayingmoneyforgoodhealthif
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nottoputthetwoitemstogether.Wecan'tavoidpayingmoneyforgoodhealthif
wedon'tputmoneyintokeepingourair,waterandgroundcleanfromCO2or
otherkindsofsoot.
Also,intheeducationofAmericans,schoolsandteachersoftenaren'tallowedto
showstudentsfromfifthgradeonupthattheirknowledgeofsciencewillmost
likelyhelpthemacquirenewjobskillswhetherit'sfortechnicaljobsinthe
laboratoriesforcompanyproductsormedicationstobemadeorotherusesof
chemicalsorbeinga"fixit"personfortheoldplumbingthatmustbereplacedor
repaired,thenewelectricalwiringthatisneededinoldbuildingsortostraighten
outsomeone'sfrozencomputer,etc.Muchofthishasbeenlostbythelackof
"shop"classesthatwerelimitedthenforcarpentryorcarrepairinsteadof
changingtheusesofthosemechanicalmindedstudentstootherfields,the
schoolsjustdroppedthecourses.Thatispartofthemethodsthestateand
federalgovernmentcouldhelptopreparenewandolderpeopletonewjobswith
technicalcoursesforthoseover18andandupgradingandchangingofhigh
schoolcoursesforjobpreparationintechnicalfieldsat15forreadinessat18.
Toolittleofthisisdonebyanyone.Butallthistakesknowledgeofscienceand
taxmoneyforschools/trainingcourses.
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JanakiRamRay 3yearsago
TheNYTrecentlydidaseriesoncollegegraduatesforcedtomovebackwith
parentsforlackofjobsnoneofthefeaturedwasasciencegraduate!TheTimes
alsodidaseriesonIvyLeaguegradsservingLattesatStarbucksorbartending
noneofthefeaturedwasasciencegraduate!AndtheTimesandseveral
othersnewspapersdidseriesfeaturingmembersoftheOccupyWall
Street...onceagainnonewasasciencegraduate!
Doweneedanymoreexamplesofthevalueofscienceeducation?
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3rdtyrant>JanakiRamRay 3yearsago
OK,now,I'mnottryingtopickafight,butwecertainlydon'thavea
causality,here.Weprobablydon'tevenhaveacorrelation.Numerically,
itislikelythatsciencegraduatesarealowernumberthanhumanitiesor
business,soitstandstoreasonthatmoreofthemwouldbeoutthere
anyway.Second,thereisprobablysomethingtobesaid,stereotyping
thoughitmightbe,abouttheworldviewofascientist/empiricist,as
opposedtotheworldviewofhumanists(badterm,Iknow,butworkwith
me)orfailedbusinessgrads.Ijustdon'tthinkthelownumberoreven
absenceofsciencegradsprovesthepointyoumightwishittoprove.
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Gopher40 3yearsago
Someofthecommentersmissthepointofthearticleandofthe"real"situation.
Thereisnoonereasonforatleastmaintainingtheemphasisonscience
education(althoughattacksfromconservativesandthereligiousrightareoften
primecontributorsforemphacizingscience).Obviouslyit'sessentialtotrainand
educatethepractitioners(andeducators)ofscienceofthefuture.However,it's
alsoessentialforthecontinuedwellbeingofsocietyaswellasthegeneralpublic
theelectorate.Unfortunately,scientificignorance,realorprofessed,aboundsnot
onlyinagoodshareofthepublic(andjournalists)butourelectedofficialsaswell.
Someofitisbasedonreligion,someonpolitics,someonaninnatenon
appreciationoforantiphahytowardscience.Scienceeducation,atleastatthe
firstlevels,shouldbetailoredtowardtreatingthesubjectsassimilablebythe
"typical"student,notjustthefutureprodigy.Yes,sceintiststhemselvesneedto
communicatebetterwiththepublicandthereareexcellentbooksandcourseson
howtodothis.
OneeducationalmethodIsuggesttoscienceteachersistolookforitemson
scienceinthepopularpressorTVandhavetheclasscritiquethem,especiallyif
errorshavebeenmadebythejournalistsorauthors.Examplesaboundfor
seemore
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seemore
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betterschool 3yearsago
Irecommendagainstgivingtheantiscientificfringetoomuchweight.Themedia
makemoneyexploitingthembutfewbelievetheirdrivelandfewerstillactonit.
Thegreaterriskislessvisible.Everyday,themajorityoftheprofessoriateteach
andevaluatestudentsusingprescientific19thcenturymodelsthatignore50
importantyearsoflearningandevaluationsciences.Noneofthesepeoplewould
visitaprescientificphysiciannorstepinanaircraftdesignedorbuildbyanyone
whoignorestherelevantscientificfindingsbuttheydefendtoexhaustiontheir
righttoteachviamethodspracticedbytheirprofessor'sprofessors.Let'slook
closertohomeinappreciatingthegrandeurofsciencesasapathtoknowledge
andasausefulcorpusofknowledgesoproduced.
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JeffBrown 3yearsago
Oh,academia,academia,academia,whereforartthouacademia?Asusual,with
headfirmlyplanted....well,youknowwhere.Ishouldknow,I'vebeenteaching
atcollegesanduniversitiesasanadjunctforover10years.Academicsloveto
theorizeandtalk,talk,talk,talk.I'vegonetopresemesterpepralliesheldby
academicsandonceheardaPhDinsciencesayin40minuteswhatshecould
havesaidin10.Genius!Brilliant!Iwasamazedthatshecouldtakesomethingso
simpleandmakeitappearsocomplex.ButifyouhavePhDafteryourname,you
damnwellbettergetyourmoney'sworthwhetherpeoplewantyoutoornot.But
let'sgettotheissuehere,"scienceliteracy"AndIjustlovethe
wayacademicstalk.NOT!Butlet'ssticktothepoint.First,scienceisimportant
anditsplacesecuredbecauseofthefactthathalftheUSGDPcomesfrom
scientificinvention.Plusitgivesusneatstuffthatincreasesconvenienceand
opportunitytogrowfatterandlazier(butthat'sanotherissue).Butthat'spractical
stuff,andheavenhelpusifwemerelytalkofthepractical
nottheoretical.Whoops!Let'sgetdeepnow.Getyourbootson?lolOK,
academia,herewego.Contrarytopopularnotiontheaveragecitizenain'tgonna
getsquatfromstudyingsciencefor"betterhealthandgoodcitizenship."Say
what?Yes,greatesthealthonlyrequiresbasicknowledgeandanydeepscience
seemore
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3rdtyrant>JeffBrown 3yearsago
Well,well,asanygoodscientistknows,youroneanecdotalbitof
evidenceissurelyenoughtoprovewithoutequivocationthatyourdisdain
foracademiaisneithertheresultofpositionenvynorcynicismoriginating
fromhubris.Andyou'reright,thereisnoneedforanydiscussionof
theory.TheFounders,forexample,oughtjusttohavefigureditoutina
dayandstoppedbeingsuchtalk,talk,talkidiotswhoonlylookedat
theory.Thethingthatyoumissisthatthetalkthatyoudislikesogives
risetoideasandtheverypracticalityyoumention.Certainlyinventioncan
occuroutsideofacademia,buthowcanyourationallydismissthe
inventionthatarisesfromtheseverydiscussionsthatyouobviouslywould
dosomuchbetter?Yourbusinessrhetoricshowsyourtruecolors,and
asabottomlinerwhowouldcorporatizeeducation,youevincetheneed
forgenuineeducationasanantidotetoyourflawedapproach.
Andbytheway,yourproseissubstandard.
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dank48>JeffBrown 3yearsago
"Oh,academia,academia,academia,whereforartthouacademia?"
Well,forstarters,Jeff,itshouldbe"O"not"Oh,"and"wherefore"not
"wherefor"and"Academia"shouldbeinitialcappedifyou'regoingto
apostrophizeit.Idon'tthinkyoureallymeanttoaskwhyacademiais
academia,forthatmatter.
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academia,forthatmatter.
Idon'thaveaPh.D.eitheranddon'tneedoneinmylineofwork,butIdo
knowsomethingaboutparagraphingandconcision,andI'dliketo
recommendbothtosomeonewhogoesonabout"talk."AndIsecond
3rdtyrant'scomments.
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AbigailLarrison 3yearsago
Inneuroeducationthereisacallforteacherprofessionaldeveloptoincludenot
onlycoursesinneurosciencebutingeneralscientificinquiryandmethods.This
wouldmaketeachersmorecapabletoreadtheinformationrelevanttotheirown
practice,andtomakeinformedchoicesastomaterialsthatwouldbe
developmentallyalignedwiththeageandneedsoftheirclass.
Thisisthetypeofscienceliteracythatwetrulyneed.Contentcanchange,and
does(rememberpluto?)butthescientificmethodiseternal.
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JeffBrown 3yearsago
Andonelastpoint.KeepinmindthisisaKcollegediscussionoftheaverage
citizenry,notthatwhichisspecifictoscienceeggheaderyonly.o)
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pdahazard 3yearsago
WithanAmericanStudiesPh.D.(1957),Iincreasinglyresentthe
unacknowledgedantiscientismofmyhumanitiesprofessors,exceptMortimer
KadishwhowipedoutmymedievalCatholicismphilosophymajorinone
semester.TheGoodBookssyndromeisessentiallyacovertTheologism.
Scientificmethodisessentialtoahumanetechnolgicalsociety(whichoursisfar
frombeing)giventhegreenhousegasliesourCashocraticoiltycoonsfund,and
thecrassfalloutofsemibarborousboobslikeRushLamebow,shootingoffhis
mouthas"ExcelleceinBroadcasting".Ugh.TheOccupyWallStreetnovices
mustunderstandthatourcommercialgreedhasfounderedadysfunctional
societyinwhichinstantly"satsfying"goodiesoutflanksoundnutritionand
pervasivelyinfantilemediamakeaplaypenofModernAmerica.It'sgoingtobea
long,painfulhawlbacktomasssanity.Butscientificliteracymustprevailinall
aspectsofthismangledculture.Alas,at84,I'llneverseesucharenewal,but
prayforit,asonlyanexCatholicatheistcan.PatrickD.Hazard,Weimar,
Germany
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3rdtyrant>pdahazard 3yearsago
Wow,badsubordination,propaganda,andswisscheesylogicallinone
post.Doesn'treflectwellonAmericanStudies,Atheism,orex
Catholicism.
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3rdtyrant 3yearsago
Here!Here!IknowIcannotspeaktothisempirically,butoneofthebest
indicatorsofstudentsuccessinmyEnglishclassesisthatastudentbeatleast
semiliterateinscience.Itbogglesthemindthatanyfieldwouldnotencourageits
studentstobescienceliterate.
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dank48>3rdtyrant 3yearsago
"Hear!Hear!"btw.(JusttoletJeffknowthat,whileImaybeanitpicker,I
trytobeevenhandedaboutit.)
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dank48 3yearsago
I'dliketoseebetterscienceliteracy,butthen,I'dliketoseebetter"literacy"
acrossthespectrumofknowledge.It'sappallingthatpeoplecanmakeitthrough
socalledhighereducationalinstitutionsandcomeoutincrediblyignorantabout
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socalledhighereducationalinstitutionsandcomeoutincrediblyignorantabout
science,math,technology,andsoon.It'salsoappallingthattheverypeoplewho
"reject"science(likerejecting,say,gravity)onthegroundsthatitconflictswith
theirreligiousbeliefsturnouttobejustasignorantaboutreligionanddamnnear
everythingelseastheyareaboutscience.
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betterschool 3yearsago
Onewaytoorganizetheresponsestothisarticleistoaskthequestion,"What
consequencesaccruetocitizenignoranceofscientificreasoning(i.e.,howto
appraisethetypeandmeritofclaims)andscientificfindings(i.e.,basingactions
onintelligencederivedviascientificreasoning).Thisisnotaneasyquestionto
pose,muchlessanswer(Ieditedtheprevioussentenceahalfdozentimes,only
toconcludethatIwasnotuptothetaskofdoingitwellintheshorttimeIhad
availabletodayperhapsnotatall).Politically,wepermitindividualswhohave
noknowledgeofnuclearsciencetovoteonwhetheracommunitywillhavea
nuclearpowergeneratingfacility.Weevenpermitvotingbyapersonwholacks
theabilitytoqualifyhisvotebyproxybypayingattentiontothejudgments
ofqualifiednuclearenergyexperts.Inthatsense,knowledgeofscience
methodologyorcorpusofknowledgeisimmaterialtocitizenry.Ontheother
hand,itdoesnotfollowthattherearenoconsequencesassociatedtoactingon
scientificignorance.Severalofthosepostingherehaveadvancedanagendato
theeffectthatignoranceofallacademicdisciplines(orformsoflifeifyouarea
Wittgensteinian)islamentable.Whilenoonestateditthisway,Igetthe
impressionthatsomebelievethatsuchignoranceismoreorlessequivalentin
consequence.Idisagree.Ignoranceoftheworldofliteraturemayrenderyoua
boorincertaincircleswhileignoranceoftheeffectsofnuclearradiationandhow
toavoiditcankillyou.Conversely,whilealinefromEliotcanbeinstrumentalin
thrillingyoursoul.Alineofcodecanbeinstrumentalinmakingyourcellphone
work,theseatremainconnectedtoyourthirdrowaisleat40,000feet,orcure
yourdisease.Thereisgreatasymmetryintheupanddownsidecasesof
ignoranceinvariousformsoflife.Itisrational,therefore,toappraisethemeritof
thisasymmetryinassigningsocialpriorities.
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5768 3yearsago
Theauthorappearstoadvocatemoreforscienceitselfthanpresentany
convincingargumentsthatwoulddefinewhatscienceliteracyis,howtoachieve
it,orwhytodosootherthantheobviousideologicaldebatesandtokeep
sciencefundingrollinginwhicharetacitlyimplicatedinsuchdiscussions.
"Literacy"isaloadedtopicnotwithoutsignificantassociationstomoreorless
minimal,fundamentalreadingandwritingskillssuchthatitmightseemnoone
couldpossiblyobject.Rathersurprising,however,scientificliteracyadvocates
seemdisconnectedfromquestionssurrounding"generalcurriculum"requirements
whichsimilarlyrequireacommoncoreofsubjectsbetakenbyeverygraduate,
andwhicharehighlydebatableastotheirvaluewhentheycomeattheexpense
ofdeeperprerequisitetrackingleadingtohigherorderknowledgeandthoughtin
subsequentupperlevelcourses,forexample.
Arguably,impartingacannedideaofthestepsofthesocalledscientificmethod
atypicaltopicinsucha'literacy'courseiseffectivelyanembodimentofcommon
sense.Unfortunatelyitbearslittleresemblancetosciencewhenpracticed:Not
onlyarethereasmanymethodsastherearedifferentsciences(forasingle
SCIENCEdoesnotexistasscholarsof20thcenturyphilosophyofsciencewill
seemore
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sunspot 3yearsago
"Justastheologyonceprovidedtheorganizingthemesforallknowledge,science
framesmuchofthe21stcenturyconsciousness."
Thisstatementassumesthatscienceliteracyalreadyexistsandalreadyframes
"muchof"ourconsciousness.Ifthisweretrue,therewouldbenoneedtoraise
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"muchof"ourconsciousness.Ifthisweretrue,therewouldbenoneedtoraise
scienceliteracy.Also,Dr.Wightman'sgrossassumptionthattheologyispasse,
asanorganizingthemeforourknowledge,assumesaverynarrowdefinitionof
knowledge.
Otherovertlybiasedstatementsmarthisotherwiseevenhandedappealforpublic
awareness.Forexample,thephrase"...thesciencesforceustoconfrontthe
smallnessandirrelevanceofhumanbeings..."isabelief,notascientific
fact.Youraudiencemaybelievethatscienceopensoureyestothe
preciousnessoflife,andthegreatnessofourroleinspreadinglifeandpurpose
throughouttheuniverse.
Thesetwostatementsappeartobepropagandafromthe"NewAtheist"
movement,whichonlyspeaksforabout7percentofscientists.(SeeDr.
Ecklund'sstudyin"Sciencevs.Religion:WhatScientistsReallyThink.")When
appealingtoapublicwhichislargelymotivatedbyreligiousbeliefs,itisnot
advisabletoinjectstatementsofpersonalbelief,andthenlabelyourpersonal
beliefsas"science".Thisonlyunderminesyourappeal,anditdamagesthe
publicviewofsciencewhenyoumisrepresentscienceasanatheistmovement.
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