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Thread: Star Trek d20

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02-02-2005,
Alex
Registered User
#31
11:34 AM
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I think the biggest problem with people who argue against d20 is that they think of D&D
and fantasy-specific elements rather than the game mechanic. The mechanic is: roll
d20, add bonuses based on ability score and skill rank, compare to minimum success
level (DC). Hit points are an abstraction for luck and toughness, and one can replace that
component with a grittier system (although I've heard a lot of arguments that hit points
are appropriate for Trek). d20 is no better or worse than a pool of d6.
Another major problem with people who don't even look at the system and try to argue
against it is that they (illogically) try to tie level to rank. LEVEL <> RANK! A lieutenant
going on away missions could have lots of talent in some area (suggesting high level and
skill focus) while a captain could have knowledge of a wide range of things (suggesting
nothing about level, just that he spread his skill points across many fields). Think of the
captain as a manager. I work for a person who is a starting rank in my company, but
he's older and pretty good at discipline and motivation of workers. His "rank" is minimal
(equiv to LT) but he's one of the best managers and technical contributors in our group.
In contrast, the top of the food chain here is a higher "rank" than his manager, according
to the title and grade scale of the company, and he definitely has more skill (even
managerial) in the fields the two of them are in than his manager. That guy is equiv to a
Commodore while his boss is just a Captain. I'm just trying to show that greater skill
(and thus level) does not mean greater rank and that higher up the command chain does
not mean higher rank or skill.
There's absolutely nothing wrong with a captain with only 3 levels in d20, or a lieutenant
with 13 levels, or said LT reporting to said CPT. A character in ICON/CODA can gain a lot
of skills and edges but not be a captain if he hasn't bought "promotion" edges. So d20 is
http://forum.trek-rpg.net/showthread.php/11163-Star-Trek-d20/page3?s=bc3ee60265b7576...
9/7/2015
Page 2 of 9
no different from ICON/CODA. But instead of getting a skill point at a time, you get them
in surges (say 6 or 8 skill points at a time) and call it a level. Silverstreak said, "D20 is
level based, ICON and Coda are skill based." That's a horrible misunderstanding of the
purpose and terms of level and skill. Skills are not a comparative factor to levels, they
can be compared with classes. d20 is class-based, but if you only have one class, it
becomes skill based.
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02-02-2005,
#32
11:57 AM
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Aug 1999
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Kaunakakai,
Molokai, Hawaii, USA
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4,020
REG
Registered User
I do agree that level of experience should not automatically reward rank, but level of
experience should be a factor when it comes to making a promotion check. A promotion
check system would be similar to the one in Blood and Guts: Modern Military sourcebook.
As for hit points, thanks to d20 and Open Gaming License, there are other alternative
health systems, such as:
1. Vitality Point/Wound Point system (now Open Game Content in the
Unearthed Arcana book),
2. the Damage Saving Throw system (found in Mutants & Masterminds; dubbed
the "Injury System" in Unearthed Arcana book),
3. d20 Modern hit points system (enforcing massive damage threshold at lower
than 50),
4. Stamina/Lifeblood system (found in T20: Traveller)
Anyhoo, just some random thoughts...

"My philosophy is 'you don't need me to tell you how to play -- I'll just provide some
rules and ideas to use and get out of your way.'"
-- Monte Cook
"Min/Maxing and munchkinism aren't problems with the game: they're problems with the
players."
-- excerpt from Guardians of Order's Role-Playing Game Manifesto
A GENERATION KIKAIDA fan

DISCLAIMER: I Am Not A Lawyer
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02-02-2005,
REG
Registered User
#33
04:58 PM
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9/7/2015
Page 3 of 9
Sorry but I have a very weak grapevine on my end so I don't know if it is true or not,
but... Is there going to be a d20 version of Prime Directive RPG?

-- Monte Cook
players."

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02-02-2005,
#34
06:19 PM
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Location: Newcastle, England
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Tobian
Registered User
Who cares, I still don't want to buy Prime Directive

Well I will take a look at it, but I am pretty much dead to D20 so it may be the first new
game for Trek that I don't buy.. not that it's likelly to be made. I'd be interested to see if
yo could pull that off Reg.. As they say there's nothing like doing it yourself.. Give it a
go.. I'll even offer constructive criticism
Ta Muchly
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02-03-2005,
#35
12:56 AM
spshu
Valued Member
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Here is the answer on Prime Directive d20 -Originally Posted by starfleetgames.com FAQ
Will you ever do a D20 based RPG?

Perhaps, but we have to deal with outside contractors (we don't know the D20 system
and cannot do it ourselves) and for whatever reason those who have offered to do this
for us never have delivered it.
9/7/2015
Page 4 of 9
Last edited by spshu; 02-03-2005 at 01:02 AM.
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02-03-2005,
#36
02:32 AM
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REG
Registered User
Originally Posted by Tobian
Who cares, I still don't want to buy Prime Directive
I wouldn't either. I think my days of Star Fleet Battles and its spawn universe are way
behind me. Though I can't help but chuckle if they might use the SFB impulse rule for
personal combat.
Well I will take a look at it, but I am pretty much dead to D20 so it may be the first new
game for Trek that I don't buy.. not that it's likelly to be made. I'd be interested to see
if yo could pull that off Reg.. As they say there's nothing like doing it yourself.. Give it a
go.. I'll even offer constructive criticism
Heh. I have an irrational fear of criticism.

-- Monte Cook
players."

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02-03-2005,
07:49 AM
#37
9/7/2015
Page 5 of 9
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Mac417
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Nov 1999
Springfield, MO,
USA
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I'll have to track 'em down but once upon a time I converted all the Star Trek ship
classes to the starship rules in d20 Star Wars. They should be online somewhere.
EDIT: Ah. Here we go.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/startr...m/messages/111
You'll have to cycle forward one page to get a few more.
Last edited by Mac417; 02-03-2005 at 08:01 AM.
chris "mac" mccarver

world's angriest creative mind
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02-03-2005,
#38
08:11 AM
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Tobian
Registered User
Originally Posted by REG
Heh. I have an irrational fear of criticism.
I can be nice when I want to be
- besides it's not irrational
I guess I'm just sick of hearing about how good it would be to have D20 startrek, but
with a few exceptions, I have yet to actually see this product. I suspect largelly because
it would be very hard to please both camps.
Ta Muchly
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02-03-2005,
#39
06:25 PM
REG
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9/7/2015
Page 6 of 9
I guess I'm just sick of hearing about how good it would be to have D20 startrek,
Well, I never hear you being sick of hearing how good Trek would be in other game
systems, even Palladium's Megaversal System, so I have to ask why are you singling out
d20?

-- Monte Cook
players."

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02-03-2005,
#40
06:43 PM
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Tobian
Registered User
err 'cause the reverse is true.. I never hear you, or anyone else, banging on about how
good Startrek would be in *insert obscure system here*.. simple!
Ta Muchly
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02-03-2005,
#41
08:13 PM
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Springfield, MO,
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I can be nice when I want to be
- besides it's not irrational
I guess I'm just sick of hearing about how good it would be to have D20 startrek, but
with a few exceptions, I have yet to actually see this product. I suspect largelly because
it would be very hard to please both camps.
9/7/2015
Page 7 of 9
Well, I know that in one case, d20 Trek was heavily discussed on the Wizards of the
Coast forums (to the point that a number of people posted their rulesets and so forth)...
discussion that was brought to a halt by the suits at Paramount basically sending the
Wizards webstaff a C&D which led to a removal of all the forum threads relating...
chris "mac" mccarver

world's angriest creative mind
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02-03-2005,
#42
10:07 PM
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REG
Registered User
err 'cause the reverse is true.. I never hear you, or anyone else, banging on about how
good Startrek would be in *insert obscure system here*.. simple!
So, if I was "banging on" about how good Trek would be under the GURPS system, you
would disagree?
I doubt it.

-- Monte Cook
players."

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02-04-2005,
Tobian
Registered User
#43
04:10 AM
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9/7/2015
Page 8 of 9
Hmm well it hasn't happened yet here

It's a shame that Paramount are so persnickerty about things like that.. they can hardly
lose money from it, and they are more likelly to lose more for being such asses! Ahh
well, that's big money business!
And Reg.. Try it. I have no specific objections to GURPS because I don't have a rules set,
or an understanding of how it works, so I am far more likelly to be objective about it. i
have specific reasons for disliking the concept of D20 Startrek.. those pertain to my
dislike of D20 NOT my universal hatred of all other systems in known existence...
Ta Muchly
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02-04-2005,
#44
07:55 AM
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Dec 2004
144

And Reg.. Try it. I have no specific objections to GURPS because I don't have a rules
set, or an understanding of how it works, so I am far more likelly to be objective about
it. i have specific reasons for disliking the concept of D20 Startrek.. those pertain to my
Funny how some people can't grasp that isn't it?
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02-04-2005,
#45
07:56 AM
Captain Blake
Registered User
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Feb 2001
Location: Nashville, TN, USA
Posts:
763

And Reg.. Try it. I have no specific objections to GURPS because I don't have a rules
9/7/2015
Page 9 of 9
set, or an understanding of how it works, so I am far more likelly to be objective about

it. i have specific reasons for disliking the concept of D20 Startrek.. those pertain to my
"My hate fo d02 know no bounds."--quote on a message board somewhere.

I like D&D3/x, Mutant's and Masterminds is pretty cool. Don't have any other d20/OGL
things.
Actually, Trek's pretty fun under the Hero system. And somebody's done a lot of the work
for you.
http://www.starherofandom.com/h_trekhero/index.php
Alex
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Star Trek d20 - Page 3

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Thread: Star Trek d20

Star Trek d20 - Page 3

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Anyhoo, just some random thoughts...

A GENERATION KIKAIDA fan

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Star Trek d20 - Page 3

Anyhoo, just some random thoughts...

A GENERATION KIKAIDA fan

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Who cares, I still don't want to buy Prime Directive

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Will you ever do a D20 based RPG?

Star Trek d20 - Page 3

Last edited by spshu; 02-03-2005 at 01:02 AM.

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Originally Posted by Tobian

Who cares, I still don't want to buy Prime Directive

Originally Posted by Tobian

Heh. I have an irrational fear of criticism.

Anyhoo, just some random thoughts...

A GENERATION KIKAIDA fan

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Star Trek d20 - Page 3

chris "mac" mccarver

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Originally Posted by REG

Heh. I have an irrational fear of criticism.

I can be nice when I want to be

- besides it's not irrational

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Originally Posted by Tobian

Star Trek d20 - Page 3

Anyhoo, just some random thoughts...

A GENERATION KIKAIDA fan

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Originally Posted by Tobian

I can be nice when I want to be

- besides it's not irrational

Star Trek d20 - Page 3

chris "mac" mccarver

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Originally Posted by Tobian

Anyhoo, just some random thoughts...

A GENERATION KIKAIDA fan

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Star Trek d20 - Page 3

Hmm well it hasn't happened yet here

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Originally Posted by Tobian

Hmm well it hasn't happened yet here

Funny how some people can't grasp that isn't it?

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Originally Posted by Tobian

Hmm well it hasn't happened yet here

Star Trek d20 - Page 3

set, or an understanding of how it works, so I am far more likelly to be objective about