Interview by Kevin Brennan “MANY PEOPLE believe the term non-classical means anti-ciassical”, Slates Situ Wal Missingham, Australian {ormulator and chief instructor of Lin Wan Kune Do Kung Fu, in explaining the posi- tion of the so-called ‘new wave’ or non- ‘radtional Martial Artists of the 1970s and ‘80s, "But this is not the case at all, | believe the classical systems have an enormous amount io offer. “But because of the continual process ‘of evolution in Martial Arts, it seems that martial anists who are contemporary must always take some degree of flak in their ‘own times for being ‘renegades’. But then ‘again, in 50 or 100 years’ time they often become accepted as part of the establish- rmreat.” ‘Wal Missingham believes there are ‘numerous famous examples in Martial Art Circles of the phenomenon he Is outlining. “Take Mas Oyama’, he adds. "Now 40 years or so ago he was considered a Yyoung tearaway, a rebel. But now he's Become part of the establishment. And claiming how his system ist. "Of course, his system isn't It. No sys- tem is it. And I'm sure he would have ‘agreed with that all those years ago, when he was breaking away and doing his own thing. As | saio previously, all Martial Arts systems have been devised by men mere morals. And what is ‘non-classical today might indeed be regarded as ‘ciass- ical in 50 or 100 years’ time. Good exam- ples are the Kung Fu systems of Wing Chun and Choy Lee Fut, which are oniy Several hundred years' oid and were con- sidered ‘breakaway or non-classical when devised by ther founders ‘This outspoken chairman of the recently formed Australian Kung-Fu Fed- tration concedes, however, that a certain degree of traditional or ‘classical training | essential in forming a strong foundation for any effective “martial artist. He describes his own classical base as hav- Jing majored in the Norther Chinese Mi Tsung ‘system, with extensive training algo in Hung Kuen, Western sabre fencing ‘and boxing, plus. a combat-orientatod Capoeira system of South America ‘Apart trom his sabre fencing skis, Wal Missingham is also wellknown in Martial As circles for his expertise in using and PAGE 88 AUSTRALASIAN FIGHTING ARTS. CY f& oH defending against various 8, including nunchaku, the fighting sticks of the Philippines. And the knife, {believe you have some interesting thoughts on knife attacks, Wal, based on your own experiences in tis area? "Sure. Well, e's look atthe basic con- cepts of knife fighting first, recognising it ‘or what itis, Even an untrained person — med with a knife ~ has a fay substan- ial advantage over the martial artist. This 's presuming, of course, that the martial anist is unarmed. “The knife is obviously a very danger- ‘ous weapon, but we should know its pre- cise capabilites. ‘Knives can be used either for slashing or thrusting of course. Used as a thrusting weapon, a knife can kil by attacks to many diferent areas of the body. But, from a technical point of view, the only slashing attack from a knife which is almost immediately fatal is a slash tothe throat. Slashes to other areas = say the limbs, face, for example = can indeed, but you can stil survive them. *So’ technically speaking, ifthe attacker is coming in with a thrusting ‘ction the martial artist has to remove hhimset from the line ofthe thrust in such ‘a way that the attacker's next movement ‘can only be a slash. So then f necessary, as a last reson, even if you do get cut— it willbe a slash, which isnot fatal, and you fare able to get inside his defences and take the guy out "Operating on a street levol against knives, there are three principles. One — ‘and these frst two can vary in the order of ‘application —'s fo contain the knife. Princ Ble two is to remove your body from the Tine of attack ofthe knife. The third prin- ple, of course, isthe immobilisation ofthe attacker by whatever means, depending fn the situation. ‘By moving your body from the line of attack, the knife attacker must then alter fis line to stil successfully get you. It is Within that moment of change of physical Felationships, that the defender must ‘apply his counterattack From a technique perspective, look- ing at common problems in the way knife delences are taught to martial artists, | think the frst problem is that most Martial ‘Ans insiniciors haven't been in a knife fight. Now I'm not suggesting they should all run out and get themselves into knife fights; that’s ridiculous. Butts sil some- ‘thing which bears thinking about “The second problom is that knife defences are offen taught from a slate position. Knife altacks are vary fast-mov ing, ditecton-changing incidents. A thire faut Ive noticed when people are teacts ing techniques. against Knife attacks i they presume that, once you have grab. bed the knife hand, the attacker is goine to somehow just stand there waiting 10 ‘your follow-up technique. | know, tron Personal experience, that he is going t Immediately ‘start punching and kickin you, and trying to drag the knife away sc fhe can get on with slashing and stabbing you again. | dont think enough people ar well prepared for that.” ‘And you have some observations about the shook reactions wien the body is hit with aknite? fes, this factor is almost entirol ‘overlooked. if someone isin a knife figh land gets cut ~ and Ive seen this happer =the natural reaction is to pause and thinl “Oh my God, Ive been cut..." Angin tha split sacond that you've reacted tothe cul the attacker can get inthe fatal biow. “Tawa man stabbed in the back wi a pair of scissors. Now that isnot usuall ‘a weapon that would kil a man with a she to the back, because of the heavy musch formations ‘of the back and the relativ lack of penetration power ofthe scissore In this case, the scissors penetrated tror about hall-an-inch to an inch into his bacs That's not going to do you any good, b. it's not going to Kill you either. The’ gu Went into instant shock from being hit | the back and then he collapsed — and ¢ course he fell on his back, straight ont the scissors which then penetraied rigt Into is torso, and he ended up ina erie Condition, m not sure whether he died ¢ ‘hot, but he could have died. That's a ‘example ofthe effect of total unpreparec ‘ness for the shock involved | discussed this with Oan Inosant while he was here and they have a interesting taining method to try to pre pare. people against this impact shoot ‘They ‘train using rolled-up bundles incense sticks, burning of course, so th: when the student gets ‘cut he receive 8 slight burn sensation from the incens “knife. There's no completely satistactor preparation for the shock effect from kenfe wound, but that training metho does, | think, prepare the student some what for the shock of getting cut. Ther ‘ho inordinate amount of pain when yout ut; i's just a quick hit and you're suc denly aware of it... i's just the shock « being cut It sinks in over a second or s {and that's all the time the attacker nec = while you're not at your best. He follow ‘pand bang, you're dead!DEFENCE AGAINST STRAIGHT KNIFE THRUST 4 (1) Craig Hall attacks Wal Missingham wit a direct thrust, which Wal sidesteps (2) and Contains in one mation (his counter-punch having already commenced). (9) As the counter ‘Punch moves in Wal allows the knife thrust to cantinue on it redirected path and (4) the nter is dlivered with the opponent stl moving into the blow. In this and the defence inst the overhead strike next page, there ae a number of common points First, Wal Immediately moves out ofthe thrusting line ofthe knife. As containment of the weapon it chleved, the force tine of the knife ssl allowed to continue, This unbalances the attacker {and Increases the impact ofthe counter-strike. (As the opponent i til moving he moves, dlrectly into the counter). Also, by moving out of the thrust ine, Wal has ncressed the ‘probability thatthe nex aitacking move wll be a slash (a potentially less injurious {echniquo, rather than a thrust. You said eartior you have scars on your ‘ams and legs that testity tothe realties ‘of fighting against knives. Can you elaborate a lite on that... some specifics? "Sure. When | was stabbed in the log, for example, was walking past a doorway and the altacker lunged at me, trom the oorway, with a thrusting action at my head. Now | made an. error at. that Point... and ! paid fort! | did something which, technically, could have been bet- lex: However, I di survive so | suppose ‘tS. question of degrees of error and cor- rectness in those types of situations. “The guy thrusted with tho’ knife directly at my head. | brought my hand up tum ofthe thrust. | learned about tha fact the hard way, "However, still had contol of his knife ‘and blocked the knife downwards, 60 he ‘didn't get my face or body, but the knife ‘continued with the momentum of his ‘downward thrust, stabbing mein the right thigh. | should have sidestepped from the line of thrust of the knife as | palmed it away, but | had maintained & sort of stance situation and didnt move out of the way. Most people aren't taught this and aren't aware they have to contend with the Powerful, continuing downward momen- hhand and when | hit him the knife fel to the ground. Then he was just another man ‘and’ | was able to finish him off conven tionally, And the cuts to your arm? “Well, that” was another situation altogetherinvolving a long-bladed kitohen carving knife. Now here's an interesting * continued next page AUSTRALASIAN FIGHTING ARTS PAGE 39«from previous page thing about knives — they all present their ‘own ificuies and characteristics. Some- times a very small knife can be quite deadly because they can be secreted from your view in some way ~ maybe ‘behind the wrist or up inside the palm — land you cant see it until i's maybe too fate, Long-bladed knives can also be very ificut fo handle and a. very. large knife can obviously do more damage, sim- ply because there's more of "Okay, this was a cross-slash situation wih a. large carving knife. Td walked through a doorway and the guy. who was ‘on my right, just slashed straight down to the side of my head and neck. There was ‘atime to do anything else but get my arm Up to deflect the knife. Otherwise | would have been cut across the side ofthe neck land probably kiled ~ it was one of those Sttualions where, irom the point of attack nl daonce, had ies than one second ‘of reaction time. ‘So brought my arm up and got badly cout across the side cl the arm, but this time | turned as | did the block and his momentum continued around me. Then | was able fo hit him in the throat, which took him out with one strike. He’ wasn" permanently damaged.” (Wal Missingham describes these ~ ‘and various other deadly combat. situa- tions ne has experienced = as having ecurred during "a situation of employ- ‘ment that Iwas once involved in") But the mental approach required in ‘such situations ~facing an armed attacker intent on killing you - obviously ‘annot be duplicated in a class training station ‘No. This involves a quite different perspective of your Mafial Arts training. ‘The practitioner has to ask himself is he prepared to be cut or badly injured in Breer to defend his life ~ to face another ‘man with realisation that, within the next YO seconds, one of you may be dead. The element of your lfe possibly finishing in the next 10 oF 30 seconds is just not there In those other situations you are exposed to, I's an area of Martial Arts that most practitioners don't get into, And that's fine: Frm nat suggesting they do but, neverthe: Jess, they should be aware that one day it ‘could happen to them. So how good is their raining? Can it prepare them for the ‘ality of looking another man inthe eye ~ fa close as were talking right now — and thinking that in tre next 10 seconds, one ‘of them is. going to be dead... Is the martial artist prepared to dle? And is ne ‘prepared to take the other man's life? Not Yory sy questons to get your mind Askiled inile-tighter obviously presents ‘deadly throat, even to the most highly trained and experienced martial artist. The odds favour the man with the knife, the knows wnat he's doing. So wouldn't you recommend discretion being the better arto! valour, whenever possible? ‘Youre quite right. '¢ say to any mar- tial ans if you can shoot through, 99 for your ite! "When you'e looking at knife fighting, there are many factors involved = training ‘aspects, emational and. psychological, PAGE 40 AUSTRALASIAN FIGHTING ARTS. DEFENCE AGAINST OVERHEAD KNIFE STRIKE COMMON FAULTS a ‘These: depict often-aught methods of dealing with knife attacks which are, quite Simply, invalid techniques. Above, Craig kicks at Wat's knife hand (1) and, with aiteral ik tthe rat, Wal turns the blade Into Craig's kicking leg, thereby Immobilising him. The primary in this defence ae that the Kicking foot must travel about a metre to reach its {ager ethene hand ony hes totum ae centimeres odo damage, And he harcer the the Kok, the more damage: ‘and environmental factors to be consi- dered. For example, we're siting at fable and there are things here that can be used. | would be picking these objects tp to gve some sor of a partial equaliser ‘against a knife. Or maybe the table isel, chair, a stick ... martial artists must be ‘aware of these possibilities in dealing with a knife situation. “So the untrained person is at _an extremely serious disadvantage against a knife. But the trained person ~ and | Stress this - is equally disadvantaged it he's been trained inthe wrong way. What fabout the analogy of the Boxer Rebellion? ‘Many thousands of trained martial artists ‘were killed in China during the last century ‘when they went up against the armed forces occupying the country at that time. ‘Because the instructors tod thelr student that ther techniques —and thei Chi power a rould protect them against the bullets. ‘And so thousands and thousands of these ‘mafia’ afisis were gunned down Decause they believed their instructors’ ‘assurances that their techniques would protect them against modern weapons. “and contend that, at the present time In Martial Ans, there are many thousands of students believing that their techniques wil protect them against knite fttacks. And dont think they will ‘his is because they are based upon a fixed structure, against a mobile and con- tinuous attack Itslike trying to fit a square ‘eker wll incur when the Kl ‘ute his attacking mb. ‘peg into a round hole: it just won't work. “Knives are a very mobile weapon and anyone who tries 10 deal with a mobile attack by using a. stalic defence is ‘doomed to falure. He could cut you to rib- bons, literally “Probably the perfect example of the folly of a static response to a dynamic attack, in terms of knife defence work, is the Xeblock whieh is offen taught against fa downward knife thrust. In this case the Gtlacker doesn't even have to continue withthe powerful momentum involved; he simply has to tit his wrist or pull the krife down to slash the fingers, hands, or arms. Or he can simply push over the block to attack the face with a straight thrust. And allthis ig assuming that the omentum of the knife attack would actu ally be stopped by the Xblock, of course: “This block is delivered ~ by its very ature, because of the apex of the X ‘dead square to the centre of the line of the attack. So that when it doesn't work ~ ‘and it wil never work — the defender isin the direct line of fight of the knife. The ‘etender has not angled off to one side to ‘avoid the knife’ line offre, Bul that's just one example; there are many others. There are those wio advo- tate Kicking the Keife or the knifehand, ‘Weil kick the knife out of his hand, they say. That's totally ridiculous, no matter hhow fast or hard the martial artist can3 COMMON FAULTS kick. The man with the knife simply angles the knife slightly into the kick to either slash or impale the leg or foot, as he chooses. In fact, the harder the kick the more effortessiy the knifeman can dam- age the attacking limb.” ‘Apart from the incense-burning idea, Wal, how do you fee! you and your students might have benefited from the training clinics your clubs had with Dan Inosanto last month? "Well, quite apart from the wealth of Information that he was able to throw their way, | think the students got quite a how can Iput this? .. an emotional high fut ofhaving the man around, I think he is. ‘quite charismatic man, despite his quiet ‘demeanour "Personally, | picked up a number of very useful teaching techniques. We are both non-classical martial artists, of course, and | learned from him more and better ways of getting ideas across in the taining and teaching of my students.” You're clearly conscious ofthe increasing ‘need for Martial Arts instructors to keep breast of the latest developments. in such fields as sports kinetics and scien tile coaching methads etc. Do you soe Substantial benefits for Australian Kung Fu Federation members from acoredita: tion in the Confederation of Australian Sport Coaching scheme? "Yes. By getting our instructors Involved in the Government's national {oaching accreditation scheme we can be sure they will be wel trained inthe art of Teaching, We're not looking at their Martial 2s abliy; that’s notin question. But we ‘want to ensure that they are trained inthe latest methods of sport coaching, so we can offer the general public a higher stan- ‘dard of presentation of Chinese Martial As.” ‘And what are some of the Federation's ‘other primary objectives? "We want o develop toummaments that are indicative of Chinese Marval Arts and otto be associated with kickboxing, Per sonally, I think tho way kickboxing is being ‘managed and presented in this country at the present time... well, its a sel destructive thing, ‘Generally speaking, the competitions being presented are too frequent and of sucha low standard. I'm generalising hhere, not being spectic at all, because there have been some high-standard toumaments. But generally the standard is low and, on a number of occasions — more often than not ~ they havent been tue to their advertising. For example, advertising six or seven bouts and then ‘only presenting, say, four bouts on the right. And that's bad. People go away thinking they've been ripped off and, in a way, | suppose they have. ‘So we don't want to associate with all that, Our 1985 championships wil be big {ger and better than our first event earlier {his year. There wll be more schools com- ppeting and | think its going to enhance the image of Chinese Martial Arts in the view of the general public. What we'etry- ing to develop is a format of competition which wil highlight those aspects of Kung Fu which are diferent to other Martial As. (1) Craig atacks with an overneadtype Sownward thrust (to which a commonly {aught response is the X-block, whieh I Invalid 500 othor photos). (2) Wal Sldesteps and contains the knife arm in one ‘motion, then (3) he directa (out doesn? 'stop) the fore line ofthe kif. Wal ountor-punch is already onthe way, and is Selivered aa the atacker ie stil moving ‘Strongly Into the blow OPERATIONAL PRINCIPLES: Seer tty act's Ror your fh fom ct re Caaetalecapeatant Craig uses the “Yemous” X-block to {o stop a knife atack. The blade ofthe knife |e simply pulled into the centre of the block, ‘cutting fngers, hands, andlor arms, “The block is stil commonly taught as far as an gather" Wal says, "because those feaching it rhistakenly assume that once a block is applied the motion of the kife will Stop. This, ofcourse, fs not the ease..." (On a ighter note, Wal ~ your classes ‘s00m fo be conducted in a fairly relaxed, informal way. Itwould seem you are more Tkely to be referred to as Wal, or even "mate", than as Situ? There's certainly no ‘Bowing and scraping’ involved “That's correct. If my senior students refer to me as Siu, it would only be in a Joking sense. New students often call me ‘Sensei when they start taining... often ‘coming rom a Karate background -- and [el them if they must refer to me by any tile they could call me Situ, but that | pre- {er them to call me Wal. That often rattles them a bit and they'll end up calling me "sir, oF something equally ridiculous, for a while ‘Actually the senior guys have a nickname — they call me Crabstick! Taken fom Seafood... which is taken from Sifu, Its just a light-hearted thing; not meant to be disrespectful. But make no mistake, there isa level of discipline in the Class that is always maintained. And there Is-@ definite point beyond which they won't go with me, as far as respect for an instructor is concerned. | am the boss and they know Im serious However, there is absolutly no point they would not go past at a personal or social level, to have a joke with me...” etectvnes in Maral At; {he gta and aking methods of Mi “aun; secaised ties of Li ‘he mall man win pan he AUSTRALASIAN FIGHTING ARTS PAGE 41