What Is The Best Cell Plate Configuration

What Is The Best Cell Plate Configuration & Effectiveness
What Is The Best Cell Plate Configuration & Effectiveness
on: January 28, 2009, 08:16:52 PM
Different Cell Configurations Will Give Hugely Varied Results
This posting is going to be a "Work in Progress" - The aim is to find as many

different plate configurations, analyse their effectiveness, and look at the best
ways for you to build them.
We are all learning from the HHO journey - If you come across an effective
design please list your findings and we will include them in this "Work in
Progress.
Nine Plate Configuration ..... + NNN - NNN +
This configuration is now widely being accepted as

one of the most economical and effective ways of
producing a reliable amount of HHO. Some
experimenters prefer reversing the polarity of the
plates by wiring it - NNN + NNN -
Volume of gas output is dependant on the total

plate size, the spacing of the plates from each
other, the strength and type of electrolyte and the
amount of power supplied.
The best reported results have been with spacing

of around 1/32nd inch. This can be attained by
using thin nylon washers between the plates using
a nylon threaded rod & lock-nuts.
Some use heat resistant shrink wrap to cover the 4

sides leaving the top and bottom in direct contact
with the electrolyte. This limits the contact arcing
and allows the power to be applied to the plates
where they produce gas.
Gas Production - 1 ltr in 47 seconds
Electrolyte - 7.5 gms KOH in 1.5 ltrs Water
Amps Drawn - 30a Warm
Data Source
- http://www.hhocountry.com/kohdata.html
This configuration is open for discussion.
Multiple Plate Configuration Tests
Below is a multiple combination of plate arrays that were all tested for
production under controlled test conditions.
My thanks goes to http://www.hhocountry.com for the huge amount of work

done to get these results.
The sole meaning of life is to serve humanity
Re: What Is The Best Cell Plate Configuration &

Effectiveness
Reply #1 on: February 06, 2009, 12:38:50 PM
What is interesting in the results above is tests 8 & 10
Using 25% less KOH resulted in more HHO production and a 1 amp
increase.......unusual
The +nnn-nnn+ configuration runs at high amps.
This configuration produces around 1 1/2 ltrs per min around the 30
amp mark. I think that reducing the KOH even lower until you get 1
ltr is the way to go. Theoretically you should get around 20 amps
and less heating.
1 ltr is still good useful production for significant mpg improvement

Effectiveness
Reply #2 on: March 12, 2010, 06:45:43 PM

Quote from: PDJ on February 06, 2009, 12:38:50 PM
What is interesting in the results above is tests 8 & 10
Using 25% less KOH resulted in more HHO production and a 1 amp
increase.......unusual
The +nnn-nnn+ configuration runs at high amps.
This configuration produces around 1 1/2 ltrs per min around the 30
amp mark. I think that reducing the KOH even lower until you get 1
ltr is the way to go. Theoretically you should get around 20 amps
and less heating.
1 ltr is still good useful production for significant mpg improvement
I have read that PWM would be a better way to go. Giving more
temperature control over the generator and also a more consistent
amount flowing into the engine.
Only thing I am curious about is how will this work on turbocharged

engines, and also a nice ratio of gasoline to hydrogen over all rpm
and throttle input ranges to produce the most gain in all conditions.
(i.e. x% gain across the board)

Effectiveness
Reply #3 on: March 13, 2010, 02:10:52 AM
Quote from: erice1984 on March 12, 2010, 06:45:43 PM
I have read that PWM would be a better way to go. Giving more
temperature control over the generator and also a more consistent
amount flowing into the engine.
Welcome to the Forum erice1984

Definitely right - Some people use the forced method of HHO
generation and regulate the electrolyte mix to control the amps,
production and heat.
PWM's allow you to do two things
Control the voltage to reduce amps - production and heat
Establish control of the frequency modulation of your plates

to maximise production with minimal power
There is a report on my findings

at http://reduceyourfuelbill.com.au/forum/index.php?topic=27.0
Quote from: erice1984 on March 12, 2010, 06:45:43 PM
Only thing I am curious about is how will this work on turbocharged

engines, and also a nice ratio of gasoline to hydrogen over all rpm
and throttle input ranges to produce the most gain in all conditions.
(i.e. x% gain across the board)
Turbo charged engines simply ram more fuel and air into the
combustion chamber allowing more fuel to burn and produce
power.
Introducing HHO into the cylinder will lower the flashpoint of the fuel
/ air mix (burns at a lower temperature), and give more power with
less unburned fuel going out the exhaust.
There is a more comprehensive explanation

at http://reduceyourfuelbill.com.au/forum/index.php?topic=126.0
Last Edit: March 13, 2010, 02:13:52 AM by PDJ Logged

Effectiveness
Reply #4 on: March 19, 2011, 06:22:12 AM
Hi,
Wat is the best configuration of the plates in a dry cell in any ones
opinion for the best production?
thanks JiggyLee
Logged

Effectiveness
Reply #5 on: April 05, 2011, 10:00:00 PM
dude, your breakthrough is awesome! i think that's the best

configuration procedure Ive ever read about. keep up the good
work!
Logged

Effectiveness
Reply #6 on: April 06, 2011, 01:44:27 PM
Quote from: JiggyLee on March 19, 2011, 06:22:12 AM
What is the best configuration of the plates in a dry cell in any ones
opinion for the best production?
From the research I have done I would have to say any

configuration. Whatever config you have for a wet cell will draw less
amps, be cooler and produce more HHO if it was put in a dry cell.
The trick is to establish the maximum output possible first.
Many people are now applying 2v per plate because of the reduced
temperature.
To explain this a little more, if you have for example 5 plates

including the + & - as in the diagram above you divide the voltage
by the number of plates (12v divided by 5 plates = 2.4v per plate).
The more volts per plate, the more production, the more heat.
If you try to minimize the volts to 2v per plate you will get less heat
and amps but slightly less production. This would equate to 6 plates
(the + & - and 4 neutrals between).
There are so many variables here it is impossible to give you a

direct formula. You have to take into consideration the number and
size of the plates, the type and condition of the plates, the distance
the plates are from each other, the type and strength of the
electrolyte, any contaminants in the cell, consistency of power
supply, if the power supply is on two SS straps that are not insulated
from the electrolyte, if you are using a PWM or not and if the plates
are fully submerged.
Most people simply accept that whatever cell configuration they

have in a wet cell will work better in a dry cell because there is no
electrolyte around the ends of the plates so the voltage has to go
through the immersed plates and not jump from the + to the -
plates through the liquid. They are usually simply happier using less
fuel. If you want to refine the production process you will maximize
your cell output for your own individual vehicle.
Whatever you choose does not need to be complicated to work, but

the more you decide to complicate and refine it the better it will be.
Hope this has helped.
Logged

Effectiveness
Reply #7 on: April 06, 2011, 01:53:10 PM
Quote from: jaytourist on April 05, 2011, 10:00:00 PM
dude, your breakthrough is awesome! i think that's the best

configuration procedure Ive ever read about. keep up the good
work!
Hi Jay tourist,
I cannot claim recognition for this - I am just like everyone else....

looking for information.
When I started looking I found information was scattered

everywhere, frustrating, confusing, lots of wrong information and so
many scammers. All I did was started putting all the information I
came across in one location and opened it up for discussion so
others did not have as much difficulty as I did when I first started.
Thanks for the comment anyway.
Enjoy.
Paul

Effectiveness
Reply #8 on: April 13, 2011, 06:07:43 PM

Paul,
As a newb in here, I don't want to step on any toes, but running
any drycell reactor with less than 5 bi-polar (neutral) plates is a
Bozo No-No.
I've found over the years that the best production (without any
steam) occurs between 1.9 & 2.5 vdc per cell. I usually run 15 6"x9"
plates configured into 2 stacks (-NNNNNN+NNNNNN-).
Since the average car will be running 13.8 volts, a reactor with
only 3 bi-polar plates has 3.45 volts per cell. This will cause high
vapor content that can be misconstrued as hydroxy.
Lee
I'm lost...If I return before I get back, please ask me to wait............

Effectiveness
Reply #9 on: April 14, 2011, 08:17:58 PM
Quote from: lhazleton on April 13, 2011, 06:07:43 PM
I've found over the years that the best production (without any
steam) occurs between 1.9 & 2.5 vdc per cell. I usually run 15 6"x9"
plates configured into 2 stacks (-NNNNNN+NNNNNN-).
Since the average car will be running 13.8 volts, a reactor with
only 3 bi-polar plates has 3.45 volts per cell. This will cause high
vapor content that can be misconstrued as hydroxy.
Hi Lee,
Welcome to the Forum - happy for any input - What tends to be the
case in this forum is we have huge amounts of people visiting who
want to know about HHO and very few who have knowledge and
want to share it with everyone.
I am no expert - I started my journey three years ago and I simply

put the information I learned in one place in this Forum - Jump in
with anything you can contribute.
I agree, you need to keep it around 2v plus per plate.
Can you explain please re the -NNNNNN+ in your post? Wouldn't this
represent 8 plates and at 13.8v would be 1.7v?
Most of the testing I have done and read about works on the
maximum possible HHO output and regulated via a PWM using the
least electrolyte to control the temperature.
Logged

Effectiveness
Reply #10 on: April 16, 2011, 12:09:40 PM
Paul,
I'm happy to have found this site and will gladly help all I can.
For the last 2 years I've been the Global Moderator here in the USA
at a very good HHO site which has recently shut down.
The setup I like to run, yes, is 8 plates per stack, which is 7 cells per
stack. Each cell is the gap between plates, so (-NNNNNN+) is 8
plates, 7 cells, one stack.
13.8vdc divided by 7 cells equals 1.97 volts. This will keep
everything running cool, the electrolyte will stay clean longer, and in
many cases a CCPWM won't be necessary even with a 28% KOH
e/lyte (what I always run) mix. A 28% mix is the best, as it creates
the least resistance between plates.
Also, amperage is extremely important. The general rule of thumb
is to not exceed .5 amp draw per sq. in. of active plate surface per
stack. For instance, my reactor is (-NNNNNN+NNNNNN-) 6"x9". After
deducting the gasket area, one plate in each stack is roughly 38 sq.
in.. So, 38x.5= 19 amps max per stack. So, I can safely run up to
38 amps to the reactor if necessary. My truck is a 4 litre, so I only
need 2LPM. I set it the PWM to 30 amps and I get 2.4LPM with a
MMW of 6.35.
Logged

Effectiveness
Reply #11 on: April 16, 2011, 07:27:32 PM
I'm glad i found this site.

I just started trying to make hho dry cells, my 2nd cell is a (-
nnn+nnn-) and is pulling between 30a to 40a. Not sure how much to
the tee because i don't have a very good amp meter. I'm going to
cut out 6 more n plates tonight to see if i can get the temp. down. I
thought i was getting 1 liter in 38sec., but now that i have seen
lhazleton's comments it may be steam that is making it that high.
This is for lhazleton. I have a 1998 s10 4.3 liter Chevy 4x4, do you
thank i will need to get a chip to trick my computer so that i get
better gas mileage? If so what would you recommend?
Thank you all,

Shane
Logged

Effectiveness
Reply #12 on: April 16, 2011, 09:03:46 PM

Shane,
To get any gains at all you need to be putting out at least 2.2LPM
of actual gas without any steam.
Once this is accomplished, you'll definitely need to fool the ECU. You
can try installing a Volo FS2 chip. Some people get good results with
them, some don't. It's really a crap-shoot.
On the other hand, you may get away with using just a digital dual
EFIE and a MAP/MAF enhancer.
If you have a distributor, retarding the timing will help greatly.
Logged

Effectiveness
Reply #13 on: April 18, 2011, 02:16:25 AM
Lee you and your old school reactor LOL , still is the one to copy for
anyone how wants a good running unit this is it , To all here Hi Lee
and I go back aways and he is giving some great advise , Voltage
and amps per plate size has alot to do with it , by following the info
Lee has set out will alway get you in the ball park and from there
you can tune the unit in to what the engine size is that you want to
run it on there has been a call put out and Im sure there will more
very good info come this way . come see me at my and Lee's utube
just look for Uno assassin and you will find some good links to other
people and one for my bonehead friend Lee
I got lost looking For Lee , If you find him tell him to wait , I will be
along after I finish my burger .

Effectiveness
Reply #14 on: April 18, 2011, 05:35:09 AM
Hey Gary,
Good to see you in here! I'm trying to help Paul by posting some of
my stuff, but most of it left with the Underground.
I'm guessing you were smart enough to keep your information on
your hard drive?
Logged

Effectiveness
Reply #15 on: April 18, 2011, 07:37:59 AM
No I am calling this a clean slate and most of my best stuff is on my

you tube , the three of us out here on the west coast have a lot of
good stuff to bring to the table , I have sent them the link and hope
they make the trip to the down under , so far i am liken it very much
, thank you .
Effectiveness
Reply #16 on: April 19, 2011, 05:02:01 AM
In the scheme of things, I am in my infancy stage regarding HHO

generators. I have contacted a couple of the successful
commercially sold HHO generator companies (PUNCH HHO and
HYBRIDGEN MARK V) and they both told me they are using a 7 plate
set up, +nnnnn- in their dry cells. Now with what I read from
IHAZLETON and UNOASSASSIN I am unsure what set up is best. I
just had 7- 6x6 plates of 18ga. stainless cut for me to assemble a
dry cell to mimic the PUNCH 5.0 or the MARK V. Should I go back
and have additional plates cut and go with IHAZETON's set up.
Unfortunately using the PUNCH 5.0 set up adding plates is difficult
because the plates fit inside a frame. As always, I am open to any
help and suggestions.
Logged

Effectiveness
Reply #17 on: April 19, 2011, 05:12:33 AM
Otto - Are these new plates and the new assembly giving you the 1
ltr in 1 1/2 minutes?
This should be much better production than what you are getting.
Re the plate assembly - What are the Hybridgen and Punch specs?
What did they tell you the setup would produce and at what
temperature
Any chance you can take a few pics or maybe a phone movie and
throw it on YouTube?
I think we need to see what you have to help
Last Edit: April 19, 2011, 05:16:47 AM by PDJ


Effectiveness
Reply #18 on: April 19, 2011, 05:47:36 AM
Paul, I have not made the PUNCH 5.0 set up yet. I am in the process
of obtaining the correct thickness gasket material to have the plates
and gasket fit with in the frame. My current set up is a 7 plate wet
cell with 2"x7" 18 ga. plates +nnnnn-. I am using one nylon washer
in-between each plate. I have the + and - plate covered to limit the
heat buildup(in theory). They are housed in a water filter container
which holds a little more than a liter of fluid. I add 1/2" a teaspoon of
lye to distllied water. It runs at about 21 amps and makes 1 liter of
HHO in 1 minute and 20 seconds and the temperatures are all over
the board anywhere from 90 degrees to 158 degrees.
Otto

Effectiveness
Reply #19 on: April 19, 2011, 07:30:19 AM
Otto,
I just looked at the Punch 5.0 website.
Can't for the life of me understand WTF the enclosure is for. A true
drycell reactor has no use for anything around the perimeter.
They claim it's "The most efficient HHO dry cell available to the
public. Producing an astounding 1-LPM @ only 15 amps".
What's so great about that? Mine puts out 2.4LPM@25 amps. I
honestly think it's a wet cell made to look like a drycell.
Furthermore, in the video he says by looking at the bubbles it
"looks like 2LPM". What a joke! The production doesn't look
impressive at all, and without a friggin' eudiometer there's
absolutely no way of knowing what the output is. This guy is an
asshole looking to make money off a piece of crap.

Effectiveness
Reply #20 on: April 19, 2011, 07:45:36 AM
Otto , use uno it's short or gary , if this is the start of a new direction
for you in dry cell construction keep it easy to work with , you will be
much happier in the long run , there is a lot of new thinking out in
the HHO world that I have not seen anyone talk about here , like
unipolar and bipolar setups and the use of both in one setup .
If you stay with a simple setup like Lee's you will be able to change
to one of these setups down the road very easily, I and Lee will try
and get some of this newer thinking on the board for all to learn
about , one of these is sand blasting and how you lay out your holes
and the shape of your plates , just these three thing alone can be
good for 1/2 plus LPM at a lower amp setting.
One , the media blasting will give you more area , that means more
prduction at a lower amp setting or a smaller unit for the same
LPM .
Two , the location and size of the holes can lead to less current
leakage and better flow control . The reason for the location of the
being , there are week spots or low production areas on a plate
these areas are a good spot to put holes and the shape of the hole
can help .
Three , this one is just a simple orientation of the plates , with most
setups the gas is made right at the plate , by making your plate
longer then it is high it will keep the gas bubbles from spending
more time in the production area of the plate and this allows the
production area to stay in a state to make gas and not be disrupted
by bubbles . These are a few thing that would have to be thought of
before you start building , this is all for info only and is not need in a
build , but are things that have bee showen to help , the bottom line
to all this is the little thing do add up to a big thing in the long run
this is my latest setup not running yet but soon
Last Edit: April 19, 2011, 07:52:02 AM by unoassassin

Effectiveness
Reply #21 on: April 19, 2011, 08:36:32 AM
Thanks Lee , here is a pic of my latest unit , still in the build mod
IMG_2617.JPG (144.4 KB, 800x600 - viewed 2441 times.)


Effectiveness
Reply #22 on: April 19, 2011, 09:02:38 AM
Looking good, Gary! Guess you're going with the unipolar setup,
huh?
I'm curious to see the numbers on it.
Hey, I just noticed that Carter (Myoldyourgold) has just joined!

I don't know if the folks in here will be able to handle all of us old
Yanks or not!
Carter>> I know for a fact that you have a lot of information in

your database.
Start forking it over, Pal! These guys Down Under need it.
Last Edit: April 19, 2011, 09:13:38 AM by lhazleton Logged

Effectiveness
Reply #23 on: April 19, 2011, 09:10:05 AM
Otto I to looked at the Punch < I sure would like to see what I was
puying and there is no need for the box if it a true dry cell unit .
To make a statment that it is a true no current leakage is wrong , If

he is running a treo style there will be current leakage in that box , it
may or may not do as stated with out seeing one up close I would
be lery , I would still stay with something a little easer to work with
for my frist dry cell , It is so easy to make a dry cell that will be just
right for your vic , I wouldn't get cought up in the world of what you
see for sale , make it you will love doing it from the start , like I said
go to my utube (unoassassin)and check out my friends and you will
see some good builds by honest people . Don't put your self in a box
there is a lot of ways to go .

Effectiveness
Reply #24 on: April 19, 2011, 09:19:07 AM
Like Gary said, building your own from scratch is the best.
Here's a vid. of my very first drycell reactor (long time ago. Think it's
somewhere out in my shed). It was 6x6 33 plates.

What Is The Best Cell Plate Configuration

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What Is The Best Cell Plate Configuration & Effectiveness

What Is The Best Cell Plate Configuration & Effectiveness

on: January 28, 2009, 08:16:52 PM

Different Cell Configurations Will Give Hugely Varied Results

This posting is going to be a "Work in Progress" - The aim is to find as many

Nine Plate Configuration ..... + NNN - NNN +

This configuration is now widely being accepted as

Volume of gas output is dependant on the total

The best reported results have been with spacing

Some use heat resistant shrink wrap to cover the 4

Electrolyte - 7.5 gms KOH in 1.5 ltrs Water

Amps Drawn - 30a Warm

This configuration is open for discussion.

Multiple Plate Configuration Tests

My thanks goes to http://www.hhocountry.com for the huge amount of work

Re: What Is The Best Cell Plate Configuration &

Reply #1 on: February 06, 2009, 12:38:50 PM

What is interesting in the results above is tests 8 & 10

The +nnn-nnn+ configuration runs at high amps.

1 ltr is still good useful production for significant mpg improvement

The sole meaning of life is to serve humanity

Re: What Is The Best Cell Plate Configuration &

Reply #2 on: March 12, 2010, 06:45:43 PM

What is interesting in the results above is tests 8 & 10

The +nnn-nnn+ configuration runs at high amps.

1 ltr is still good useful production for significant mpg improvement

Only thing I am curious about is how will this work on turbocharged

Re: What Is The Best Cell Plate Configuration &

Reply #3 on: March 13, 2010, 02:10:52 AM

Quote from: erice1984 on March 12, 2010, 06:45:43 PM

Welcome to the Forum erice1984

PWM's allow you to do two things

Control the voltage to reduce amps - production and heat

Establish control of the frequency modulation of your plates

There is a report on my findings

Quote from: erice1984 on March 12, 2010, 06:45:43 PM

Only thing I am curious about is how will this work on turbocharged

There is a more comprehensive explanation

Last Edit: March 13, 2010, 02:13:52 AM by PDJ Logged

The sole meaning of life is to serve humanity

Re: What Is The Best Cell Plate Configuration &

Reply #4 on: March 19, 2011, 06:22:12 AM

Re: What Is The Best Cell Plate Configuration &

Reply #5 on: April 05, 2011, 10:00:00 PM

dude, your breakthrough is awesome! i think that's the best

Re: What Is The Best Cell Plate Configuration &

Reply #6 on: April 06, 2011, 01:44:27 PM

Quote from: JiggyLee on March 19, 2011, 06:22:12 AM

From the research I have done I would have to say any

To explain this a little more, if you have for example 5 plates

There are so many variables here it is impossible to give you a

Most people simply accept that whatever cell configuration they

Whatever you choose does not need to be complicated to work, but

Hope this has helped.

The sole meaning of life is to serve humanity

Reply #7 on: April 06, 2011, 01:53:10 PM

Quote from: jaytourist on April 05, 2011, 10:00:00 PM

dude, your breakthrough is awesome! i think that's the best

I cannot claim recognition for this - I am just like everyone else....

When I started looking I found information was scattered

Thanks for the comment anyway.

The sole meaning of life is to serve humanity