I hope you don't mind me replying to you in bullet points to save both time and

space.

- Hard to say. I think serfs were always there, with position, status or function
slightly changing (commrades, squires, serfs...). That change between mid 7th and
mid 5th, however, couldn't have been too big. As with other warfare related issues.
- Men at Marathon did exactly that, they all fought 'as hoplites' ...quotes.
Plataea and Thermopylae have dead serfs mentioned explicitly.

- Art might not show BATTLEs in its entirety, but the COMBAT can hardly be
disputed. Especially when it comes to such detail as grips, fluidity, hoplite
exclusiveness etc. Art is the image of combat ancients had. We can't afford to
correct them from this distance.
So rather than question primary evidence, let's question our theories.

Having a grip that is supposedly a standard one on march or prior to battle that
has never been shown in this context, but a completely differet, peace time one
instead...is an example of such theory that deserves questioning.

To repeat myself - we can find the most efficient practice today for any aspect of
ancient society, but it speaks absolutely nothing about its historicity.

- 'especially well past the Archaic'. In other words a period that is/should be,
legitimately, out of focus in a GENERAL discussion about hoplites. By the way, you
used the word 'especially'. So, which Archaic sources/descriptions does this
disagree with?
For the better part of Arhcaic era, hoplites are shown as (dismounted) infantry.
How and where does this fit into the whole 'red figure grip' theory?

- Ditching the shield quote is taken a bit too seriously-literally here. There had
to be many justifiably 'discarded', unrecovered shields in the turmoil of battle.
The problem in Archilochus' POEM isn't the physical recovery of the shield but the
moral state of a hoplite who 'ran away'.
By the way, this was written during the same period my quote from the Iliad
describes, so do you want to say that the Homer was making up the squires/comrades
practice?

- Fighting over bodies isn't just a military but a social issue as well. You are
speaking about people who considered death in the front ranks - beautiful, ideal.
Your rational thinking goes against their wish to achieve immortality.
The slave remark I didn't quite get. They'd be 'unburdened' by the only things that
could save their life in this turmoil...Why wouldn't the poorly armed men rush into
the heavily armed men like Soviets, and try to take the body away from them? I
guess because they would be cut to pieces...
By the way, there are light troops shown in many body recovery scenes.

- ''isn't the one with...a rear line outside of combat where men can rest and relax
as if there was not a battle going on'' because we don't generally focus on boring
stuff like logistics, triage etc. It's all just fun and games.
- ''If servants were at all times close enough to aid the man, they should
absolutely be treated as combatants'' By whom? Who said that they didn't? What do
you think killed all those Spartan helots at Plataea and Thermopylae? Why did
Herodotus mention how many helots each Spartan had, if their purpose was not to aid
the man? And why so many (seven), if they weren't expected to die as well?
- ''and should be mentioned in every other battle thereafter.'' I don't feel
confident enough to establish rules for ancient historiography from a rational,
21st century position. Also, the practice must've changed with stronger emergence
of hoplite exclusive formations. Lighter hoplites who didn't rely on throwing
spears must've required less assistance than the heavier ones.

When there is a general discussion that isn't specifically referring to

Peloponnesian, Theban or Corinthian war, I tend to go with what is true for the
majority of hoplite era.