Which System Is Better. The KP or The 4 Step - Vedic Astrology (Jyotisha)

12/29/2018 Which system is better. The KP or the 4 Step ? - Vedic Astrology (Jyotisha) - IndiaDivine.
org
IndiaDivine.org Existing user? Sign In  Sign Up
Articles Forums Downloads Pictures Leaderboard Spiritual Questions Search... 
 Home  IndiaDivine.org Forums on Hinduism  Vedic Astrology (Jyotisha)  Which system is better. The KP or the 4 Step ?  All Activity
Which system is better. The KP or  Sign in to follow this Followers 0
the 4 Step ? 
By Guest guest, December 19, 2009 in Vedic Astrology (Jyotisha)
ANNOUNCEMENTS
Rate this topic
Start new topic Reply to this topic
 Posts are approved by the moderators 
once or twice a day. Please be patient for
1 2 3 NEXT  Page 1 of 3  your posts to show up.
Guest guest Posted December 19, 2009 Report post  TOP DOWNLOADS
Dear Learned Senior astrologers of the Group, Week Month Year All

Vishnu Sahasranamam (MP3)
I was going through the Tutorials, and stumbled upon the

 By The Editor
 1,841  27
Guests
4 Step theory rules. Of Course I was not unaware of
Shriman Narayana Narayana Hari Hari…
these.  By sweetyid
 1,005  17

Kala Bhairava Ashtakam, Version 3 (…
My Queries to you which hope would be answered honestly  By The Editor
 453  13
and with convictions and fearlessly.
Shri Krishna Govinda Hare Murare (M…

 By sweetyid
1) Which system is better. The KP or the 4 Step ?  429  2
Lal Kitab: Volume 1 (1952 Edition) in …
2) In case the latter, than should we discard the Traditional

 By The Editor
 316  4
KP Method ?
3) Certain rules considered as 4 Step, are already there in
the KP Traditional , albeit not in detailed manner, but
references are thrown in here and there. So can
we pick up those rules which can help us in KP
traditional, or totally shift to the 4 Step ?
4) If the 4 step Theory is better, than how could the old
ptactioners of Traditional KP, give so much wonderful
How To Make & Publish Books -

Get Our Free How To Guide
Essential Info Every Writer Needs For
Success, From Manuscript To Marketplace!
Ad bookbaby.com
Learn more
predictions, as mentioned in the readers and the other
https://www.indiadivine.org/content/topic/1515047-which-system-is-better-the-kp-or-the-4-step/ 1/111
12/29/2018 Which system is better. The KP or the 4 Step ? - Vedic Astrology (Jyotisha) - IndiaDivine.org
books from the Disciples ?
5) Since Shri KSk was always for further research and
improvisations, we as students are ready to change,
apply and amalgamate . Which rules from the 4 Step
can be picked up and applied to the Traditional without
disturbing its Structure completely ?
6) What do you advise the new comers who enter KP.
should they straight away move towards the 4 step or
should they study both the KP and the 4 step and in
that process confuse themselves ?
7) I am given to understand that for certain Charts the
asnwers are not available unless one applies the
4 Step. In that case what is the percentage of such
charts you would give, out of 100, where the Traditional
KP does not seem to work ?
As requested above, please answer the above
honesty and fearlessly. We do not have to necessarily
look good, but be truthful to ourselves and the
student community.
Please do not advise that they are "not different systems"
or just an "improvisation", because both cannot be applied together.
regards/Bhaskar.
 Quote
Guest guest Posted December 20, 2009 Report post 
Dear Bhaskar ji,
We have seen some heated debate in this forum when we try to do comparison. This is a
Guests KP forum, so naturally the answer will be biased in favor of KP. Even then, let me take
some of the questions and answer them unbiased and best of my capabilities.
1) Which system is better. The KP or the 4 Step ?
Comparison of any two systems is good. All systems do have pros and cons. With the
time and research we will have to highlight those points. Also 4-step is a new system so
it will take some time in terms of awareness before even we start comparing it. In my
opinion, it is too early.
KP Method ?
As per my earlier answer, it is too early to compare the systems. Sunil ji himself

participate in some of the quizzes etc. and any signi cant advantages of 4-step over KP
has yet to be found. In my opinion, 4-step is still a system under development and highly
dependent upon KP. I have seen 4-step astrologers mixing KP extensively.
There are KP astrologer already using those methods. Some of the methods are already
part of modern KP. From 1966 edition to 1971 edition, we have seen shift towards using
sub-lord (both planetary and cuspal) more often. The shift is continuing and the use of
sub has increased over a period of time in KP.
CEO Bets $1.1B on 1 Pot Stock

This Est. $50 Billion Industry Is Still
Anyone’s Game.
Ad The Motley Fool
Learn more
This is a tough question. Neither KP practitioners, nor 4-step or other practitioners are
able to achieve the level we found in readers. More research and study is needed.
Positional strength and role of sub's star is already in use in KP. These are also used
extensively in 4-step theory. If I remember Sunil ji correctly, most of them are borrowed
from KP only.
As the basics of 4-step is in KP, I recommend going through KP rst. Other members can
have different opinion.
Truly speaking I am not in agreement with this saying.
Most of the time it happens because we miss ner KP principles. The number of such
charts are not very high. Though we must remember that whichever system we use,
there is some selections need to be made by astrologer, and there comes the difference.
For example, in the quizzes we have seen that no two KP or 4-step astrologers came up
with the same answer.
Thanks & Regards,Punit Pandey
On Sat, Dec 19, 2009 at 11:26 PM, Bhaskar <bhaskar_jyotish wrote:
Dear Learned Senior astrologers of the Group,
these.
My Queries to you which hope would be answered honestly

KP Method ?
New York Launches No Cost

Solar Program
New York Set To Give Solar Panels To
Middle-Class Families At No Cost
Ad Green Energy Tribune
Learn more
student community.
Please do not advise that they are " not different systems "
or just an " improvisation " , because both cannot be applied together.
regards/Bhaskar.
 Quote
Dear Punit Ji,4 Step theory is useful in nding the strength of the planet and its
sign cators.
All are based on KP only. May be the method of interpretation is different as per their
experience. As you have said a lot of study is required.For example, in nding the
Guests favorable signi cators, I have found the following method from my knowledge which I
have narrated earlier (as my Backward theory) is also more useful. But all are from the
base of KP only. But we must try to nd the possibilities to nd the fruitful sign cators.
CEO Bets $1.1B on 1 Pot Stock

This Est. $50 Billion Industry Is Still
Anyone’s Game.
Ad The Motley Fool
Learn more
To brief it: The sign cators can be added apart from our regular rules as follows:A
planet whose sublord is located in the star of a planet who is situated in a required
cusp.Just for eg.,
Jupiter is situtated in 7.Saturn is in the star of JupiterThe lord of 7 is Moon. Sun is in the
star of Moon The sign cators of 7 is " Saturn, Jupiter, Sun and Moon " Now, If any planet
is situated in the sub of Saturn (who is in the star of Jupiter) can also be taken as
sign cator. ie.,
We have to look at the Saturn (whose star lord is the occupant of 7) if he has come as
sublord for any Planet.But in any case the planet and its star lord and its sub lord's
strength have to be looked into to give the fruitful results.
This will be useful in nding the planets who are playing role in the timing of events,Like
wise, we can not come to any conclusion that we reached the task. Many of our
members may have their own valuable ndings which can be taken for further study
Another eg:If a planet is in its own sub whose star lord is not well placed.But if that star
lord is posited is a favorable star. That planet will give good results.It means, if a planet
is in its own sub , we have to study more on the star lord well.
Thanks and RegardsAdithOn Sun, Dec 20, 2009 at 4:23 PM, Punit Pandey <punitp wrote:

Dear Bhaskar ji,
We have seen some heated debate in this forum when we try to do comparison. This is a
KP forum, so naturally the answer will be biased in favor of KP. Even then, let me take
some of the questions and answer them unbiased and best of my capabilities.
Comparison of any two systems is good. All systems do have pros and cons. With the
time and research we will have to highlight those points. Also 4-step is a new system so
it will take some time in terms of awareness before even we start comparing it. In my
opinion, it is too early.
KP Method ?
As per my earlier answer, it is too early to compare the systems. Sunil ji himself

participate in some of the quizzes etc. and any signi cant advantages of 4-step over KP
has yet to be found. In my opinion, 4-step is still a system under development and highly
dependent upon KP. I have seen 4-step astrologers mixing KP extensively.
New York Launches No Cost

Solar Program
New York Set To Give Solar Panels To
Middle-Class Families At No Cost
Ad Green Energy Tribune
Learn more
There are KP astrologer already using those methods. Some of the methods are already
part of modern KP. From 1966 edition to 1971 edition, we have seen shift towards using
sub-lord (both planetary and cuspal) more often. The shift is continuing and the use of
sub has increased over a period of time in KP.
This is a tough question. Neither KP practitioners, nor 4-step or other practitioners are
able to achieve the level we found in readers. More research and study is needed.
Positional strength and role of sub's star is already in use in KP. These are also used
extensively in 4-step theory. If I remember Sunil ji correctly, most of them are borrowed
from KP only.
As the basics of 4-step is in KP, I recommend going through KP rst. Other members can
have different opinion.
Truly speaking I am not in agreement with this saying.
Most of the time it happens because we miss ner KP principles. The number of such
charts are not very high. Though we must remember that whichever system we use,
there is some selections need to be made by astrologer, and there comes the difference.
For example, in the quizzes we have seen that no two KP or 4-step astrologers came up
with the same answer.
Thanks & Regards,Punit Pandey
On Sat, Dec 19, 2009 at 11:26 PM, Bhaskar <bhaskar_jyotish wrote:
Dear Learned Senior astrologers of the Group,

these.
My Queries to you which hope would be answered honestly
KP Method ?
Do you teach? Want to earn

$650/month teaching online
from home - 60-90 minutes a…
Ad VIPKID
Learn more
student community.
Please do not advise that they are " not different systems "
or just an " improvisation " , because both cannot be applied together.
regards/Bhaskar.
 Quote
Dear Punit ji,
Thanks for spending time on my mail and giving straight honest replies
Guests
to the queries.
I would like to mention now that my personal opinion is that the 4 Step
Theory may be too confusing at times with too many heavy weighted
rules which may not all be understood properly by a student, in complete.
Another fact which may not be of common knowledge,
is that Late Shri Suresh Sahasneji in his books (which were
written many years ago) has used the apparent presently Titled,
4 Step rules, very effectively in KP without making it confusing.
This may have now later come to be known as 4 Step with further
rules added to it , is another matter, but was actually KP in detail
and improvised.
I would recommend students to learn Traditional KP through the usual
methods and also read the above books for grasping of further rules,
rather than going for 4 Step straightaway which I am sorry, personally I
am not comfortable with.

(Let me also clear this, that I am in no way connected with selling of
above books, nor have any particular interest, except that these books
are really one of the nest, most simple to understand, and contains
all KP And improvised rules minus the confusions, so that one can
understand KP very easily rather than spending 10 years to understand
Readers or 4 Step).
warm regards,
Bhaskar.
, Punit Pandey <punitp wrote:>> Dear Bhaskar ji,> > We have seen some heated debate in
this forum when we try to do comparison.> This is a KP forum, so naturally the answer
will be biased in favor of KP.> Even then, let me take some of the questions and answer
them unbiased and> best of my capabilities.> > > *1) Which system is better. The KP or
the 4 Step ?*> Comparison of any two systems is good. All systems do have pros and
cons.> With the time and research we will have to highlight those points. Also> 4-step is
a new system so it will take some time in terms of awareness> before even we start
comparing it. In my opinion, it is too early.> > *2) In case the latter, than should we
discard the Traditional*> *KP Method ?*> As per my earlier answer, it is too early to
compare the systems. Sunil ji> himself participate in some of the quizzes etc. and any
signi cant> advantages of 4-step over KP has yet to be found. In my opinion, 4-step is>
still a system under development and highly dependent upon KP. I have seen> 4-step
astrologers mixing KP extensively.> > *3) Certain rules considered as 4 Step, are already
there in*> *the KP Traditional , albeit not in detailed manner, but*> *references are
thrown in here and there. So can*> *we pick up those rules which can help us in KP *>
*traditional, or totally shift to the 4 Step ?*> There are KP astrologer already using those
methods. Some of the methods are> already part of modern KP. From 1966 edition to
1971 edition, we have seen> shift towards using sub-lord (both planetary and cuspal)
more often. The> shift is continuing and the use of sub has increased over a period of
time> in KP.> > *4) If the 4 step Theory is better, than how could the old*> *ptactioners of
Traditional KP, give so much wonderful*> *predictions, as mentioned in the readers and
the other*> *books from the Disciples ?*> This is a tough question. Neither KP
practitioners, nor 4-step or other> practitioners are able to achieve the level we found in
readers. More> research and study is needed.> > *5) Since Shri KSk was always for
further research and*> *improvisations, we as students are ready to change,*> *apply
and amalgamate . Which rules from the 4 Step *> *can be picked up and applied to the
Traditional without *> *disturbing its Structure completely ?*> Positional strength and
role of sub's star is already in use in KP. These> are also used extensively in 4-step
theory. If I remember Sunil> ji correctly, most of them are borrowed from KP only.> > *6)
What do you advise the new comers who enter KP.*> *should they straight away move
towards the 4 step or*> *should they study both the KP and the 4 step and in*> *that
process confuse themselves ?*> As the basics of 4-step is in KP, I recommend going
through KP rst. Other> members can have different opinion.> > *7) I am given to
understand that for certain Charts the*> *asnwers are not available unless one applies
the *> *4 Step. In that case what is the percentage of such *> *charts you would give, out
of 100, where the Traditional*> *KP does not seem to work ?*> Truly speaking I am not in
agreement with this saying.> > Most of the time it happens because we miss ner KP
principles. The number> of such charts are not very high. Though we must remember
that whichever> system we use, there is some selections need to be made by astrologer,
and> there comes the difference. For example, in the quizzes we have seen that no> two
KP or 4-step astrologers came up with the same answer.> > Thanks & Regards,> > Punit
Pandey> > > On Sat, Dec 19, 2009 at 11:26 PM, Bhaskar bhaskar_jyotishwrote:> > >> >> >
*Dear Learned Senior astrologers of the Group,*> > **> > I was going through the
Tutorials, and stumbled upon the> > 4 Step theory rules. Of Course I was not unaware
of> > these.> >> > My Queries to you which hope would be answered honestly> > and
with convictions and fearlessly.> >> > 1) Which system is *better*. The KP or the 4 Step ?
> >> > 2) In case the latter, than should we *discard* the Traditional> > KP Method ?> >>
> 3) Certain rules considered as 4 Step, are *already there* in> > the KP Traditional ,
albeit not in detailed manner, but> > references are thrown in here and there. So can> >
we pick up those rules which can help us in KP> > traditional, or totally shift to the 4 Step
?> >> > 4) If the 4 step Theory is better, than how could the old> > ptactioners of
Traditional KP, give so much *wonderful*> > *predictions,* as mentioned in the readers
and the other> > books from the Disciples ?> >> > 5) Since Shri KSk was always for
further research and> > improvisations, we as students are ready to change,> > apply
and amalgamate . Which rules from the 4 Step> > can be picked up and *applied to the
Traditional* without> > disturbing its Structure completely ?> >> > 6) What do you advise
the new comers who enter KP.> > should they straight away move towards the 4 step or>
> should they study both the KP and the 4 step and in> > that process *confuse*
themselves ?> >> > 7) I am given to understand that for certain Charts the> > asnwers
are not available unless one applies the> > 4 Step. In that case *what is the percentage*
of such> > charts you would give, out of 100, where the Traditional> > KP does not seem
to work ?> >> > As requested above, please answer the above> > honesty and fearlessly.
We do not have to necessarily> > look good, but be *truthful* to ourselves and the> >
student community.> >> > Please do not advise that they are "not different systems"> >
or just an "improvisation", because both cannot be applied together.> >> >
regards/Bhaskar.> >> >> > > >>
 Quote
4-Step/
DIFFERENCES BETWEEN KP AND FOUR STEP METHOD.doc
DIFFRENCES BETWEEN KP & 4 STEP

Guests

, " adith kasinath.g.k " <gkadithkasinath
wrote:
>
> Dear Punit Ji,
>
> 4 Step theory is useful in nding the strength of the planet and its
> sign cators.
>
> All are based on KP only. May be the method of interpretation is different
> as per their experience.
> As you have said a lot of study is required.
>
> For example, in nding the favorable signi cators, I have found the
> following method from my knowledge which I have narrated earlier (as my
> Backward theory) is also more useful. But all are from the base of KP only.
> But we must try to nd the possibilities to nd the fruitful sign cators.
>
> To brief it: The sign cators can be added apart from our regular rules as
> follows:
>
> *A planet whose sublord is located in the star of a planet who is situated
> in a required cusp.
>*
> *Just for eg*.,
> Jupiter is situtated in 7.
> Saturn is in the star of Jupiter
> The lord of 7 is Moon. Sun is in the star of Moon
> The sign cators of 7 is " Saturn, Jupiter, Sun and Moon "
>
> Now, *If any planet is situated in the sub of Saturn (who is in the star of
> Jupiter) can also be taken as sign cator*. ie.,
> We have to look at the Saturn (whose star lord is the occupant of 7) if he
> has come as sublord for any Planet.
>
> But in any case the planet and its star lord and its sub lord's strength
> have to be looked into to give the fruitful results.
> This will be useful in nding the planets who are playing role in the
> timing of events,
>
> Like wise, we can not come to any conclusion that we reached the task. Many
> of our members may have their own valuable ndings which can be taken for
> further study
>
> *Another eg:*
> If a planet is in its own sub whose star lord is not well placed.
> But if that star lord is posited is a favorable star. That planet will give
> good results.
> It means, if a planet is in its own sub , we have to study more on the star
> lord well.
>
>
> Thanks and Regards
> Adith
>
> On Sun, Dec 20, 2009 at 4:23 PM, Punit Pandey <punitp wrote:
>
>
>>
> > Dear Bhaskar ji,
>>
> > We have seen some heated debate in this forum when we try to do comparison.
> > This is a KP forum, so naturally the answer will be biased in favor of KP.
> > Even then, let me take some of the questions and answer them unbiased and
> > best of my capabilities.
>>
>>
> > *1) Which system is better. The KP or the 4 Step ?*
> > Comparison of any two systems is good. All systems do have pros and cons.
> > With the time and research we will have to highlight those points. Also
> > 4-step is a new system so it will take some time in terms of awareness
> > before even we start comparing it. In my opinion, it is too early.
>>
> > *2) In case the latter, than should we discard the Traditional*
> > *KP Method ?*
> > As per my earlier answer, it is too early to compare the systems. Sunil ji
> > himself participate in some of the quizzes etc. and any signi cant
> > advantages of 4-step over KP has yet to be found. In my opinion, 4-step is
> > still a system under development and highly dependent upon KP. I have seen
> > 4-step astrologers mixing KP extensively.
>>
> > *3) Certain rules considered as 4 Step, are already there in*
> > *the KP Traditional , albeit not in detailed manner, but*
> > *references are thrown in here and there. So can*
> > *we pick up those rules which can help us in KP *
> > *traditional, or totally shift to the 4 Step ?*
> > There are KP astrologer already using those methods. Some of the methods
> > are already part of modern KP. From 1966 edition to 1971 edition, we have
> > seen shift towards using sub-lord (both planetary and cuspal) more often.
> > The shift is continuing and the use of sub has increased over a period of
> > time in KP.
>>
> > *4) If the 4 step Theory is better, than how could the old*
> > *ptactioners of Traditional KP, give so much wonderful*
> > *predictions, as mentioned in the readers and the other*
> > *books from the Disciples ?*
> > This is a tough question. Neither KP practitioners, nor 4-step or other
> > practitioners are able to achieve the level we found in readers. More
> > research and study is needed.
>>
> > *5) Since Shri KSk was always for further research and*
> > *improvisations, we as students are ready to change,*
> > *apply and amalgamate . Which rules from the 4 Step *
> > *can be picked up and applied to the Traditional without *
> > *disturbing its Structure completely ?*
> > Positional strength and role of sub's star is already in use in KP. These
> > are also used extensively in 4-step theory. If I remember Sunil
> > ji correctly, most of them are borrowed from KP only.
>>
> > *6) What do you advise the new comers who enter KP.*
> > *should they straight away move towards the 4 step or*
> > *should they study both the KP and the 4 step and in*
> > *that process confuse themselves ?*
> > As the basics of 4-step is in KP, I recommend going through KP rst. Other
> > members can have different opinion.
>>
> > *7) I am given to understand that for certain Charts the*
> > *asnwers are not available unless one applies the *
> > *4 Step. In that case what is the percentage of such *
> > *charts you would give, out of 100, where the Traditional*
> > *KP does not seem to work ?*
> > Truly speaking I am not in agreement with this saying.
>>
> > Most of the time it happens because we miss ner KP principles. The number
> > of such charts are not very high. Though we must remember that whichever
> > system we use, there is some selections need to be made by astrologer, and
> > there comes the difference. For example, in the quizzes we have seen that no
> > two KP or 4-step astrologers came up with the same answer.
>>
> > Thanks & Regards,
>>
> > Punit Pandey
>>
>>
> > On Sat, Dec 19, 2009 at 11:26 PM, Bhaskar <bhaskar_jyotishwrote:
>>
> >>
> >>
> >> *Dear Learned Senior astrologers of the Group,*
> >> **
> >> I was going through the Tutorials, and stumbled upon the
> >> 4 Step theory rules. Of Course I was not unaware of
> >> these.
> >>
> >> My Queries to you which hope would be answered honestly
> >> and with convictions and fearlessly.
> >>
> >> 1) Which system is *better*. The KP or the 4 Step ?
> >>
> >> 2) In case the latter, than should we *discard* the Traditional
> >> KP Method ?
> >>
> >> 3) Certain rules considered as 4 Step, are *already there* in
> >> the KP Traditional , albeit not in detailed manner, but
> >> references are thrown in here and there. So can
> >> we pick up those rules which can help us in KP
> >> traditional, or totally shift to the 4 Step ?
> >>
> >> 4) If the 4 step Theory is better, than how could the old
> >> ptactioners of Traditional KP, give so much *wonderful*
> >> *predictions,* as mentioned in the readers and the other
> >> books from the Disciples ?
> >>
> >> 5) Since Shri KSk was always for further research and
> >> improvisations, we as students are ready to change,
> >> apply and amalgamate . Which rules from the 4 Step
> >> can be picked up and *applied to the Traditional* without
> >> disturbing its Structure completely ?
> >>
> >> 6) What do you advise the new comers who enter KP.
> >> should they straight away move towards the 4 step or
> >> should they study both the KP and the 4 step and in
> >> that process *confuse* themselves ?
> >>
> >> 7) I am given to understand that for certain Charts the
> >> asnwers are not available unless one applies the
> >> 4 Step. In that case *what is the percentage* of such
> >> charts you would give, out of 100, where the Traditional
> >> KP does not seem to work ?
> >>
> >> As requested above, please answer the above
> >> honesty and fearlessly. We do not have to necessarily
> >> look good, but be *truthful* to ourselves and the
> >> student community.
> >>
> >> Please do not advise that they are " not different systems "
> >> or just an " improvisation " , because both cannot be applied together.
> >>
> >> regards/Bhaskar.
> >>
> >>
> >>
>>
>>
>
 Quote
Dear Members,As far as my knowledge goes, 4 step theory is based on KP principles

only adding and /or improvising some rules. Further the method of working out
signi cation of each planet is entirely different. To differentiate this aspect from KP (and
not get confused as KP) it was suitably titled as "4 Step Theory". Therefore to
understand 4 step, knowledge of KP as given in KSK's Readers is necessary. Secondly, in
Guests
my personal opinion, I do not nd 4 step theory confusing. There are
very few rules which can be understood even by a beginner. In fact I am very
comfortable with 4 step theory.Late Mr. Suresh shahasane has written many books on
KP in Marathi and these were translated in Hindi and Gujrathi, I suppose. These books
must be widely used by many KP astrologers. Then I fail to understand why the fact that
"he used apparent presently Titled, 4 Step rules, very effectively in KP without making it
confusing" may not be of common knowledge? But if this is a fact, then credit must go
to him. Frankly speaking since I have not read his books I cannot comment on this. But
there must be many members in this forum who have read his books, can
throw some light on this. Regards,Subhash EkatreBhaskar <bhaskar_jyotish Sent: Sun,

December 20, 2009 6:26:09 AM Re: Which system is better. The KP or the 4 Step ?
Dear Punit ji,
to the queries.
and improvised.
Readers or 4 Step).
warm regards,
Bhaskar.
@gro ups.com, Punit Pandey <punitp wrote:>> Dear Bhaskar ji,> > We have seen some
heated debate in this forum when we try to do comparison.> This is a KP forum, so
naturally the answer will be biased in favor of KP.> Even then, let me take some of the
questions and answer them unbiased and> best of my capabilities.> > > *1) Which
system is better. The KP or the 4 Step ?*> Comparison of any two systems is good. All
systems do have pros and cons.> With the time and research we will have to highlight
those points. Also> 4-step is a new system so it will take some time in terms of
awareness> before even we start comparing it. In my opinion, it is too early.> > *2) In
case the latter, than should we
discard the Traditional*> *KP Method ?*> As per my earlier answer, it is too early to
compare the systems. Sunil ji> himself participate in some of the quizzes etc. and any
signi cant> advantages of 4-step over KP has yet to be found. In my opinion, 4-step is>
still a system under development and highly dependent upon KP. I have seen> 4-step
astrologers mixing KP extensively.> > *3) Certain rules considered as 4 Step, are already
there in*> *the KP Traditional , albeit not in detailed manner, but*> *references are
thrown in here and there. So can*> *we pick up those rules which can help us in KP *>
*traditional, or totally shift to the 4 Step ?*> There are KP astrologer already using those
methods. Some of the methods are> already part of modern KP. From 1966 edition to
1971 edition, we have seen> shift towards using sub-lord (both planetary and
cuspal) more often. The> shift is continuing and the use of sub has increased over a
period of time> in KP.> > *4) If the 4 step Theory is better, than how could the old*>
*ptactioners of Traditional KP, give so much wonderful*> *predictions, as mentioned in
the readers and the other*> *books from the Disciples ?*> This is a tough question.
Neither KP practitioners, nor 4-step or other> practitioners are able to achieve the level
we found in readers. More> research and study is needed.> > *5) Since Shri KSk was
always for further research and*> *improvisations, we as students are ready to
change,*> *apply and amalgamate . Which rules from the 4 Step *> *can be picked up
and applied to the Traditional without *> *disturbing its Structure completely ?*>
Positional strength and role of sub's star is already in use in KP. These> are
also used extensively in 4-step theory. If I remember Sunil> ji correctly, most of them are
borrowed from KP only.> > *6) What do you advise the new comers who enter KP.*>
*should they straight away move towards the 4 step or*> *should they study both the KP
and the 4 step and in*> *that process confuse themselves ?*> As the basics of 4-step is
in KP, I recommend going through KP rst. Other> members can have different opinion.>
> *7) I am given to understand that for certain Charts the*> *asnwers are not available
unless one applies the *> *4 Step. In that case what is the percentage of such *> *charts
you would give, out of 100, where the Traditional*> *KP does not seem to work ?*> Truly
speaking I am not in agreement with this saying.> > Most of the time it happens because
we miss ner KP principles. The number> of such
charts are not very high. Though we must remember that whichever> system we use,
there is some selections need to be made by astrologer, and> there comes the
difference. For example, in the quizzes we have seen that no> two KP or 4-step
astrologers came up with the same answer.> > Thanks & Regards,> > Punit Pandey> > >
On Sat, Dec 19, 2009 at 11:26 PM, Bhaskar bhaskar_jyotish@ ...wrote:> > >> >> > *Dear
Learned Senior astrologers of the Group,*> > **> > I was going through the Tutorials, and
stumbled upon the> > 4 Step theory rules. Of Course I was not unaware of> > these.> >>
> My Queries to you which hope would be answered honestly> > and with convictions
and fearlessly.> >> > 1) Which system is *better*. The KP or the 4 Step ?> >> >
2) In case the latter, than should we *discard* the Traditional> > KP Method ?> >> > 3)
Certain rules considered as 4 Step, are *already there* in> > the KP Traditional , albeit
not in detailed manner, but> > references are thrown in here and there. So can> > we pick
up those rules which can help us in KP> > traditional, or totally shift to the 4 Step ?> >> >
4) If the 4 step Theory is better, than how could the old> > ptactioners of Traditional KP,
give so much *wonderful*> > *predictions, * as mentioned in the readers and the other>
> books from the Disciples ?> >> > 5) Since Shri KSk was always for further research
and> > improvisations, we as students are ready to change,> > apply and amalgamate .
Which rules from the 4 Step> > can be picked up and *applied to the Traditional*
without> > disturbing its Structure completely ?> >> > 6) What do you advise the new
comers who enter KP.> > should they straight away move towards the 4 step or> >
should they study both the KP and the 4 step and in> > that process *confuse*
themselves ?> >> > 7) I am given to understand that for certain Charts the> > asnwers
are not available unless one applies the> > 4 Step. In that case *what is the percentage*
of such> > charts you would give, out of 100, where the Traditional> > KP does not seem
to work ?> >> > As requested above, please answer the above> > honesty and fearlessly.
We do not have to necessarily> > look good, but be *truthful* to ourselves and the> >
student community.> >> > Please do not advise that they are "not different systems"> >
or just an "improvisation" , because both cannot be applied together.> >> >

regards/Bhaskar.> >> >> > > >>
 Quote
Dear Subhash,
I completely agree with you...
Yogesh Lajmi
Guests

Subhash Ektare <subhash_ektare Sent: Mon, 21 December, 2009 5:02:39 AMRe: Re:
Which system is better. The KP or the 4 Step ?
Dear Members,
As far as my knowledge goes, 4 step theory is based on KP principles only adding and
/or improvising some rules. Further the method of working out signi cation of each
planet is entirely different. To differentiate this aspect from KP (and not get confused as
KP) it was suitably titled as "4 Step Theory". Therefore to understand 4 step, knowledge
of KP as given in KSK's Readers is necessary.
Secondly, in my personal opinion, I do not nd 4 step theory confusing. There are very
few rules which can be understood even by a beginner. In fact I am very comfortable
with 4 step theory.
Late Mr.. Suresh shahasane has written many books on KP in Marathi and these were
translated in Hindi and Gujrathi, I suppose. These books must be widely used by many
KP astrologers. Then I fail to understand why the fact that "he used apparent presently
Titled, 4 Step rules, very effectively in KP without making it confusing" may not be of
common knowledge? But if this is a fact, then credit must go to him. Frankly speaking
since I have not read his books I cannot comment on this. But there must be many
members in this forum who have read his books, can throw some light on this.
Regards,
Subhash Ekatre
Bhaskar <bhaskar_jyotish@ .co. in>@gro ups.comSun, December 20, 2009 6:26:09 AM

Re: Which system is better. The KP or the 4 Step ?
Dear Punit ji,
to the queries.
and improvised.
Readers or 4 Step).
warm regards,
Bhaskar.
questions and answer them unbiased and> best of my capabilities..> > > *1) Which
case the latter, than
should we discard the Traditional*> *KP Method ?*> As per my earlier answer, it is too
early to compare the systems. Sunil ji> himself participate in some of the quizzes etc.
and any signi cant> advantages of 4-step over KP has yet to be found. In my opinion, 4-
step is> still a system under development and highly dependent upon KP. I have seen> 4-
step astrologers mixing KP extensively.> > *3) Certain rules considered as 4 Step, are
already there in*> *the KP Traditional , albeit not in detailed manner, but*> *references
are thrown in here and there. So can*> *we pick up those rules which can help us in KP
*> *traditional, or totally shift to the 4 Step ?*> There are KP astrologer already using
those methods. Some of the methods are> already part of modern KP. From 1966
edition to 1971 edition, we have seen> shift towards using sub-lord (both
planetary and cuspal) more often. The> shift is continuing and the use of sub has
increased over a period of time> in KP.> > *4) If the 4 step Theory is better, than how
could the old*> *ptactioners of Traditional KP, give so much wonderful*> *predictions, as
mentioned in the readers and the other*> *books from the Disciples ?*> This is a tough
question. Neither KP practitioners, nor 4-step or other> practitioners are able to achieve
the level we found in readers. More> research and study is needed.> > *5) Since Shri KSk
was always for further research and*> *improvisations, we as students are ready to
Positional strength and role of sub's star is already in use in KP.
These> are also used extensively in 4-step theory. If I remember Sunil> ji correctly, most
of them are borrowed from KP only.> > *6) What do you advise the new comers who
enter KP.*> *should they straight away move towards the 4 step or*> *should they study
both the KP and the 4 step and in*> *that process confuse themselves ?*> As the basics
of 4-step is in KP, I recommend going through KP rst. Other> members can have
different opinion.> > *7) I am given to understand that for certain Charts the*> *asnwers
are not available unless one applies the *> *4 Step. In that case what is the percentage
of such *> *charts you would give, out of 100, where the Traditional*> *KP does not
seem to work ?*> Truly speaking I am not in agreement with this saying.> > Most of the
time it happens because we miss ner KP principles. The
number> of such charts are not very high. Though we must remember that whichever>
system we use, there is some selections need to be made by astrologer, and> there
comes the difference. For example, in the quizzes we have seen that no> two KP or 4-
step astrologers came up with the same answer.> > Thanks & Regards,> > Punit
Pandey> > > On Sat, Dec 19, 2009 at 11:26 PM, Bhaskar bhaskar_jyotish@ ...wrote:> > >>
>> > *Dear Learned Senior astrologers of the Group,*> > **> > I was going through the
with convictions and fearlessly.> >> > 1) Which system is *better*. The KP or the 4 Step
?> >> > 2) In case the latter, than should we *discard* the Traditional> > KP Method ?> >>
Traditional KP, give so much *wonderful*> > *predictions, * as mentioned in the readers
and amalgamate . Which rules from the 4 Step> > can be picked up and
*applied to the Traditional* without> > disturbing its Structure completely ?> >> > 6)
What do you advise the new comers who enter KP.> > should they straight away move
towards the 4 step or> > should they study both the KP and the 4 step and in> > that
process *confuse* themselves ?> >> > 7) I am given to understand that for certain
Charts the> > asnwers are not available unless one applies the> > 4 Step. In that case
*what is the percentage* of such> > charts you would give, out of 100, where the
Traditional> > KP does not seem to work ?> >> > As requested above, please answer the
above> > honesty and fearlessly. We do not have to necessarily> > look good, but be
*truthful* to ourselves and the> > student community.> >> > Please do not advise that
they are "not
different systems"> > or just an "improvisation" , because both cannot be applied

together.> >> > regards/Bhaskar.> >> >> > > >>
See what's on at the movies in your area. Find out now.
 Quote
Dear Subhash ji,
// Then I fail to understand why the fact that "he used apparent presently Titled, 4 Step
rules, very effectively in KP without making it confusing" may not be of common
knowledge? //
Guests
What is today known as 4 Step, most of the rules have already been used by Shri
Sahasne in his books written many years ago, is what may not be common knowledge,
is what I am tring to say Sir. Removing something from KP, then adding another set of
confusing rules to it and naming it "4 Step" is not what I am comfortable with. Shri
Sahasne has made improvisations to KP in his books, mentioned the areas where he
feels further research must be done, accepted his dissatisfactions in certain areas, but
never claimed to be originator of any new theories.
If You have understood the 4 Step well, then you may be fortunate. Any improvisations if
makes some sense and is not confusing to a student - Beginner or Advanced level
student, is always welcome. I did not even understand properly your translation in the
Files Section where a 58 KB File on Fout Step theory Rules are, put up. There are about
10 Ruless mentioned which themselves contain many others within them.
Understanding the English in any article is another matter, understanding the rules is a
seperate matter, and application of them is again another junction. When to apply which
rules is again confusing. This is my personal opinion as I mentioned before.
About 4 Step I will refrain from commenting further.
kind regards,
Bhaskar.
, Subhash Ektare <subhash_ektare wrote:>> Dear Members,> > As far as my knowledge

goes, 4 step theory is based on KP principles only adding and /or improvising some
rules. Further the method of working out signi cation of each planet is entirely different.
To differentiate this aspect from KP (and not get confused as KP) it was suitably titled
as "4 Step Theory". Therefore to understand 4 step, knowledge of KP as given in KSK's
Readers is necessary. > > Secondly, in my personal opinion, I do not nd 4 step theory
confusing. There are very few rules which can be understood even by a beginner. In fact
I am very comfortable with 4 step theory.> > Late Mr. Suresh shahasane has written
many books on KP in Marathi and these were translated in Hindi and Gujrathi, I suppose.
These books must be widely used by many KP astrologers. Then I fail to understand why
the fact that"he used apparent presently Titled, 4 Step rules, very effectively in KP
without making it confusing" may not be of common knowledge? But if this is a fact,
then credit must go to him. Frankly speaking since I have not read his books I cannot
comment on this. But there must be many members in this forum who have read his
books, can throw some light on this. > > Regards,> Subhash Ekatre> > > > > > >
________________________________> Bhaskar bhaskar_jyotish > Sun, December 20, 2009
6:26:09 AM> Re: Which system is better. The KP or the 4 Step ?> > > Dear Punit ji,> >
Thanks for spending time on my mail and giving straight honest replies> to the queries.>
> I would like to mention now that my personal opinion is that the 4 Step> Theory may
be too confusing at times with too many heavy weighted> rules which may not all be
understood properly by a student, in complete. > > Another fact which may not be of
common knowledge,> is that Late Shri Suresh Sahasneji in his books (which were>
written many years ago) has used the apparent presently Titled,> 4 Step rules, very
effectively in KP without making it confusing. > This may have now later come to be
known as 4 Step with further > rules added to it , is another matter, but was actually KP
in detail> and improvised. > > I would recommend students to learn Traditional KP
through the usual > methods and also read the above books for grasping of further rules,
> rather than going for 4 Step straightaway which I am sorry, personally I > am not
comfortable with.> > (Let me also clear this, that I am in no way connected with selling
of> above books, nor have any particular interest, except that these books> are really
one of the nest, most simple to understand, and contains> all KP And improvised rules
minus the confusions, so that one can> understand KP very easily rather than spending
10 years to understand> Readers or 4 Step).> > warm regards,> Bhaskar.> > > > > @gro
ups.com, Punit Pandey punitp@ wrote:> >> > Dear Bhaskar ji,> > > > We have seen some
heated debate in this forum when we try to do comparison.> > This is a KP forum, so
naturally the answer will be biased in favor of KP.> > Even then, let me take some of the
questions and answer them unbiased and> > best of my capabilities.> > > > > > *1)
Which system is better. The KP or the 4 Step ?*> > Comparison of any two systems is
good. All systems do have pros and cons.> > With the time and research we will have to
highlight those points. Also> > 4-step is a new system so it will take some time in terms
of awareness> > before even we start comparing it. In my opinion, it is too early.> > > >
*2) In case the latter, than should we discard the Traditional*> > *KP Method ?*> > As per
my earlier answer, it is too early to compare the systems. Sunil ji> > himself participate
in some of the quizzes etc. and any signi cant> > advantages of 4-step over KP has yet
to be found. In my opinion, 4-step is> > still a system under development and highly
dependent upon KP. I have seen> > 4-step astrologers mixing KP extensively.> > > > *3)
Certain rules considered as 4 Step, are already there in*> > *the KP Traditional , albeit
not in detailed manner, but*> > *references are thrown in here and there. So can*> > *we
pick up those rules which can help us in KP *> > *traditional, or totally shift to the 4 Step
?*> > There are KP astrologer already using those methods. Some of the methods are> >
already part of modern KP. From 1966 edition to 1971 edition, we have seen> > shift
towards using sub-lord (both planetary and cuspal) more often. The> > shift is
continuing and the use of sub has increased over a period of time> > in KP.> > > > *4) If
the 4 step Theory is better, than how could the old*> > *ptactioners of Traditional KP,
give so much wonderful*> > *predictions, as mentioned in the readers and the other*> >
*books from the Disciples ?*> > This is a tough question. Neither KP practitioners, nor 4-
step or other> > practitioners are able to achieve the level we found in readers. More> >
research and study is needed.> > > > *5) Since Shri KSk was always for further research
and*> > *improvisations, we as students are ready to change,*> > *apply and
amalgamate . Which rules from the 4 Step *> > *can be picked up and applied to the
Traditional without *> > *disturbing its Structure completely ?*> > Positional strength and
role of sub's star is already in use in KP. These> > are also used extensively in 4-step
theory. If I remember Sunil> > ji correctly, most of them are borrowed from KP only.> > >
> *6) What do you advise the new comers who enter KP.*> > *should they straight away
move towards the 4 step or*> > *should they study both the KP and the 4 step and in*> >
*that process confuse themselves ?*> > As the basics of 4-step is in KP, I recommend
going through KP rst. Other> > members can have different opinion.> > > > *7) I am
given to understand that for certain Charts the*> > *asnwers are not available unless
one applies the *> > *4 Step. In that case what is the percentage of such *> > *charts you
would give, out of 100, where the Traditional*> > *KP does not seem to work ?*> > Truly
speaking I am not in agreement with this saying.> > > > Most of the time it happens
because we miss ner KP principles. The number> > of such charts are not very high.
Though we must remember that whichever> > system we use, there is some selections
need to be made by astrologer, and> > there comes the difference. For example, in the
quizzes we have seen that no> > two KP or 4-step astrologers came up with the same
answer.> > > > Thanks & Regards,> > > > Punit Pandey> > > > > > On Sat, Dec 19, 2009 at
11:26 PM, Bhaskar bhaskar_jyotish@ ...wrote:> > > > >> > >> > > *Dear Learned Senior
astrologers of the Group,*> > > **> > > I was going through the Tutorials, and stumbled
upon the> > > 4 Step theory rules. Of Course I was not unaware of> > > these.> > >> > >
My Queries to you which hope would be answered honestly> > > and with convictions
and fearlessly.> > >> > > 1) Which system is *better*. The KP or the 4 Step ?> > >> > > 2)
In case the latter, than should we *discard* the Traditional> > > KP Method ?> > >> > > 3)
Certain rules considered as 4 Step, are *already there* in> > > the KP Traditional , albeit
not in detailed manner, but> > > references are thrown in here and there. So can> > > we
pick up those rules which can help us in KP> > > traditional, or totally shift to the 4 Step ?
> > >> > > 4) If the 4 step Theory is better, than how could the old> > > ptactioners of
Traditional KP, give so much *wonderful*> > > *predictions, * as mentioned in the readers
and the other> > > books from the Disciples ?> > >> > > 5) Since Shri KSk was always for
further research and> > > improvisations, we as students are ready to change,> > > apply
and amalgamate . Which rules from the 4 Step> > > can be picked up and *applied to the
Traditional* without> > > disturbing its Structure completely ?> > >> > > 6) What do you
advise the new comers who enter KP.> > > should they straight away move towards the 4
step or> > > should they study both the KP and the 4 step and in> > > that process
*confuse* themselves ?> > >> > > 7) I am given to understand that for certain Charts
the> > > asnwers are not available unless one applies the> > > 4 Step. In that case *what
is the percentage* of such> > > charts you would give, out of 100, where the Traditional>
> > KP does not seem to work ?> > >> > > As requested above, please answer the above>
> > honesty and fearlessly. We do not have to necessarily> > > look good, but be
*truthful* to ourselves and the> > > student community.> > >> > > Please do not advise
that they are "not different systems"> > > or just an "improvisation" , because both
cannot be applied together.> > >> > > regards/Bhaskar.> > >> > >> > > > > >> >>
 Quote
dear bhaskar,
thanks for your personal views about 4 step theory.
i dont understand then why you put up such a query

Guests
about 4 step theory?
punitji rightly said that it is based on kp method
and himself agrres that this is a kp forum and thats why
bias opinion is placed,anyway.
dear bhaskar,4 step theory is totally developed by me
and it has nothing to do with shahasane's books.actually
the books are only edited and not fully written by shahasane.
all the articles were from " nakshtra sanchit darpan " magazine
edited by late hasbe guruji...this is for your information.
in my opinion,4 step theory is the simplest theory based on
kpmethod.many logers switched over to this theory in maharashtra.
thanks
-sunil gondhalekar
, " Bhaskar " <bhaskar_jyotish wrote:
>
> Dear Punit ji, Thanks for spending time on my mail and giving straight
> honest replies to the queries. I would like to mention now that my
> personal opinion is that the 4 Step Theory may be too confusing at times
> with too many heavy weighted rules which may not all be understood
> properly by a student, in complete. Another fact which may not be of
> common knowledge, is that Late Shri Suresh Sahasneji in his books (which
> were written many years ago) has used the apparent presently Titled, 4
> Step rules, very effectively in KP without making it confusing. This
> may have now later come to be known as 4 Step with further rules added
> to it , is another matter, but was actually KP in detail and improvised.
> I would recommend students to learn Traditional KP through the usual
> methods and also read the above books for grasping of further rules,
> rather than going for 4 Step straightaway which I am sorry, personally I
> am not comfortable with. (Let me also clear this, that I am in no way
> connected with selling of above books, nor have any particular interest,
> except that these books are really one of the nest, most simple to
> understand, and contains all KP And improvised rules minus the
> confusions, so that one can understand KP very easily rather than
> spending 10 years to understand Readers or 4 Step). warm regards,
> Bhaskar.
> , Punit Pandey <punitp@> wrote:
>>
>>
> > We have seen some heated debate in this forum when we try to do
> comparison.
> > This is a KP forum, so naturally the answer will be biased in favor of
> KP.
> > Even then, let me take some of the questions and answer them unbiased
> and
> > best of my capabilities.
>>
>>
> > Comparison of any two systems is good. All systems do have pros and
> cons.
> > With the time and research we will have to highlight those points.
> Also
>>
> > *KP Method ?*
> > As per my earlier answer, it is too early to compare the systems.
> Sunil ji
> > advantages of 4-step over KP has yet to be found. In my opinion,
> 4-step is
> > still a system under development and highly dependent upon KP. I have
> seen
>>
> > There are KP astrologer already using those methods. Some of the
> methods are
> > already part of modern KP. From 1966 edition to 1971 edition, we have
> seen
> > shift towards using sub-lord (both planetary and cuspal) more often.
> The
> > shift is continuing and the use of sub has increased over a period of
> time
> > in KP.
>>
> > This is a tough question. Neither KP practitioners, nor 4-step or
> other
>>
> > Positional strength and role of sub's star is already in use in KP.
> These
>>
> > As the basics of 4-step is in KP, I recommend going through KP rst.
> Other
>>
>>
> > Most of the time it happens because we miss ner KP principles. The
> number
> > of such charts are not very high. Though we must remember that
> whichever
> > system we use, there is some selections need to be made by astrologer,
> and
> > there comes the difference. For example, in the quizzes we have seen
> that no
>>
>>
> > Punit Pandey
>>
>>
> > On Sat, Dec 19, 2009 at 11:26 PM, Bhaskar bhaskar_jyotish:
>>
>>>
>>>
> > > *Dear Learned Senior astrologers of the Group,*
> > > **
> > > I was going through the Tutorials, and stumbled upon the
> > > 4 Step theory rules. Of Course I was not unaware of
> > > these.
>>>
> > > My Queries to you which hope would be answered honestly
> > > and with convictions and fearlessly.
>>>
> > > 1) Which system is *better*. The KP or the 4 Step ?
>>>
> > > 2) In case the latter, than should we *discard* the Traditional
> > > KP Method ?
>>>
> > > 3) Certain rules considered as 4 Step, are *already there* in
> > > the KP Traditional , albeit not in detailed manner, but
> > > references are thrown in here and there. So can
> > > we pick up those rules which can help us in KP
> > > traditional, or totally shift to the 4 Step ?
>>>
> > > 4) If the 4 step Theory is better, than how could the old
> > > ptactioners of Traditional KP, give so much *wonderful*
> > > *predictions,* as mentioned in the readers and the other
> > > books from the Disciples ?
>>>
> > > 5) Since Shri KSk was always for further research and
> > > improvisations, we as students are ready to change,
> > > apply and amalgamate . Which rules from the 4 Step
> > > can be picked up and *applied to the Traditional* without
> > > disturbing its Structure completely ?
>>>
> > > 6) What do you advise the new comers who enter KP.
> > > should they straight away move towards the 4 step or
> > > should they study both the KP and the 4 step and in
> > > that process *confuse* themselves ?
>>>
> > > 7) I am given to understand that for certain Charts the
> > > asnwers are not available unless one applies the
> > > 4 Step. In that case *what is the percentage* of such
> > > charts you would give, out of 100, where the Traditional
> > > KP does not seem to work ?
>>>
> > > As requested above, please answer the above
> > > honesty and fearlessly. We do not have to necessarily
> > > look good, but be *truthful* to ourselves and the
> > > student community.
>>>
> > > Please do not advise that they are " not different systems "
> > > or just an " improvisation " , because both cannot be applied together.
>>>
> > > regards/Bhaskar.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
 Quote
Sir,
I have nothing against Your goodself or the theory itself, nor any contentions
Guests
about who is the originator. My main purpose is that the students must be told
what is better for them to be studied primarily, and then later on secondarily.
Which is why this query was put up, so that matters are cleared once again.
I have also purchased your book of 40 Pages on 4 step theory costing Rs.500- 2
years ago, from which i was not able to understand anything. Please consider
this my inability and not take it otherwise please.
Whether articles written by Sahasne ji were edited from late Kasbe gurujis
magazine or not, I am not sure, and neither am intersted in knowing so. I do not
think that anybody of his stature would straightaway lift it and then write it
in his name. I do not believe this. If he has done so, then he must have taken
the permissions to do so. But if he had done so, he would have mentioned it,
which he has not. So no point in talking who wrote what and from where
especially about persons who are no more alive to defend themselves.
The 4 Step theory if You are the originator, then its ne. I wish to study it,
but am not able to understand how. Can You guide us how to study it in the
simplest form, as you say its the simplest theory based on KP ? Another point,
some steps of 4 step theory are already been written by Shri Sahasne much before
your goodself introduced this as 4 Step. In that case the credit must go to Shri
Kasbe ji as the originator, since you say that sahasneji has written all from
Shri Kasbejis articles ? Right ?
Anyway we are not here to argue or discuss on such minor matters. If 4 step
theory is good, then please present it in a simple form for the students bene t
please, or write another book taking pains to ll it with content which
simpli es the whole theory, so that the readers and students can take advantage
of the same, is my only request you to.
Kind regards,
Bhaskar.
, " sunilalaka " <sunilalaka wrote:
>
> dear bhaskar,
> thanks for your personal views about 4 step theory.
> i dont understand then why you put up such a query
> about 4 step theory?
>
> punitji rightly said that it is based on kp method
> and himself agrres that this is a kp forum and thats why
> bias opinion is placed,anyway.
>
> dear bhaskar,4 step theory is totally developed by me
> and it has nothing to do with shahasane's books.actually
> the books are only edited and not fully written by shahasane.
> all the articles were from " nakshtra sanchit darpan " magazine
> edited by late hasbe guruji...this is for your information.
>
> in my opinion,4 step theory is the simplest theory based on
> kpmethod.many logers switched over to this theory in maharashtra.
>
> thanks
>
> -sunil gondhalekar
>
>
, " Bhaskar " <bhaskar_jyotish@> wrote:
>>
> > Dear Punit ji, Thanks for spending time on my mail and giving straight
> > honest replies to the queries. I would like to mention now that my
> > personal opinion is that the 4 Step Theory may be too confusing at times
> > with too many heavy weighted rules which may not all be understood
> > properly by a student, in complete. Another fact which may not be of
> > common knowledge, is that Late Shri Suresh Sahasneji in his books (which
> > were written many years ago) has used the apparent presently Titled, 4
> > Step rules, very effectively in KP without making it confusing. This
> > may have now later come to be known as 4 Step with further rules added
> > to it , is another matter, but was actually KP in detail and improvised.
> > I would recommend students to learn Traditional KP through the usual
> > methods and also read the above books for grasping of further rules,
> > rather than going for 4 Step straightaway which I am sorry, personally I
> > am not comfortable with. (Let me also clear this, that I am in no way
> > connected with selling of above books, nor have any particular interest,
> > except that these books are really one of the nest, most simple to
> > understand, and contains all KP And improvised rules minus the
> > confusions, so that one can understand KP very easily rather than
> > spending 10 years to understand Readers or 4 Step). warm regards,
> > Bhaskar.
> > , Punit Pandey <punitp@> wrote:
>>>
> > > Dear Bhaskar ji,
>>>
> > > We have seen some heated debate in this forum when we try to do
> > comparison.
> > > This is a KP forum, so naturally the answer will be biased in favor of
> > KP.
> > > Even then, let me take some of the questions and answer them unbiased
> > and
> > > best of my capabilities.
>>>
>>>
> > > *1) Which system is better. The KP or the 4 Step ?*
> > > Comparison of any two systems is good. All systems do have pros and
> > cons.
> > > With the time and research we will have to highlight those points.
> > Also
> > > 4-step is a new system so it will take some time in terms of awareness
> > > before even we start comparing it. In my opinion, it is too early.
>>>
> > > *2) In case the latter, than should we discard the Traditional*
> > > *KP Method ?*
> > > As per my earlier answer, it is too early to compare the systems.
> > Sunil ji
> > > himself participate in some of the quizzes etc. and any signi cant
> > > advantages of 4-step over KP has yet to be found. In my opinion,
> > 4-step is
> > > still a system under development and highly dependent upon KP. I have
> > seen
> > > 4-step astrologers mixing KP extensively.
>>>
> > > *3) Certain rules considered as 4 Step, are already there in*
> > > *the KP Traditional , albeit not in detailed manner, but*
> > > *references are thrown in here and there. So can*
> > > *we pick up those rules which can help us in KP *
> > > *traditional, or totally shift to the 4 Step ?*
> > > There are KP astrologer already using those methods. Some of the
> > methods are
> > > already part of modern KP. From 1966 edition to 1971 edition, we have
> > seen
> > > shift towards using sub-lord (both planetary and cuspal) more often.
> > The
> > > shift is continuing and the use of sub has increased over a period of
> > time
> > > in KP.
>>>
> > > *4) If the 4 step Theory is better, than how could the old*
> > > *ptactioners of Traditional KP, give so much wonderful*
> > > *predictions, as mentioned in the readers and the other*
> > > *books from the Disciples ?*
> > > This is a tough question. Neither KP practitioners, nor 4-step or
> > other
> > > practitioners are able to achieve the level we found in readers. More
> > > research and study is needed.
>>>
> > > *5) Since Shri KSk was always for further research and*
> > > *improvisations, we as students are ready to change,*
> > > *apply and amalgamate . Which rules from the 4 Step *
> > > *can be picked up and applied to the Traditional without *
> > > *disturbing its Structure completely ?*
> > > Positional strength and role of sub's star is already in use in KP.
> > These
> > > are also used extensively in 4-step theory. If I remember Sunil
> > > ji correctly, most of them are borrowed from KP only.
>>>
> > > *6) What do you advise the new comers who enter KP.*
> > > *should they straight away move towards the 4 step or*
> > > *should they study both the KP and the 4 step and in*
> > > *that process confuse themselves ?*
> > > As the basics of 4-step is in KP, I recommend going through KP rst.
> > Other
> > > members can have different opinion.
>>>
> > > *7) I am given to understand that for certain Charts the*
> > > *asnwers are not available unless one applies the *
> > > *4 Step. In that case what is the percentage of such *
> > > *charts you would give, out of 100, where the Traditional*
> > > *KP does not seem to work ?*
> > > Truly speaking I am not in agreement with this saying.
>>>
> > > Most of the time it happens because we miss ner KP principles. The
> > number
> > > of such charts are not very high. Though we must remember that
> > whichever
> > > system we use, there is some selections need to be made by astrologer,
> > and
> > > there comes the difference. For example, in the quizzes we have seen
> > that no
> > > two KP or 4-step astrologers came up with the same answer.
>>>
> > > Thanks & Regards,
>>>
> > > Punit Pandey
>>>
>>>
> > > On Sat, Dec 19, 2009 at 11:26 PM, Bhaskar bhaskar_jyotish@:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
> > > > *Dear Learned Senior astrologers of the Group,*
> > > > **
> > > > I was going through the Tutorials, and stumbled upon the
> > > > 4 Step theory rules. Of Course I was not unaware of
> > > > these.
>>>>
> > > > My Queries to you which hope would be answered honestly
> > > > and with convictions and fearlessly.
>>>>
> > > > 1) Which system is *better*. The KP or the 4 Step ?
>>>>
> > > > 2) In case the latter, than should we *discard* the Traditional
> > > > KP Method ?
>>>>
> > > > 3) Certain rules considered as 4 Step, are *already there* in
> > > > the KP Traditional , albeit not in detailed manner, but
> > > > references are thrown in here and there. So can
> > > > we pick up those rules which can help us in KP
> > > > traditional, or totally shift to the 4 Step ?
>>>>
> > > > 4) If the 4 step Theory is better, than how could the old
> > > > ptactioners of Traditional KP, give so much *wonderful*
> > > > *predictions,* as mentioned in the readers and the other
> > > > books from the Disciples ?
>>>>
> > > > 5) Since Shri KSk was always for further research and
> > > > improvisations, we as students are ready to change,
> > > > apply and amalgamate . Which rules from the 4 Step
> > > > can be picked up and *applied to the Traditional* without
> > > > disturbing its Structure completely ?
>>>>
> > > > 6) What do you advise the new comers who enter KP.
> > > > should they straight away move towards the 4 step or
> > > > should they study both the KP and the 4 step and in
> > > > that process *confuse* themselves ?
>>>>
> > > > 7) I am given to understand that for certain Charts the
> > > > asnwers are not available unless one applies the
> > > > 4 Step. In that case *what is the percentage* of such
> > > > charts you would give, out of 100, where the Traditional
> > > > KP does not seem to work ?
>>>>
> > > > As requested above, please answer the above
> > > > honesty and fearlessly. We do not have to necessarily
> > > > look good, but be *truthful* to ourselves and the
> > > > student community.
>>>>
> > > > Please do not advise that they are " not different systems "
> > > > or just an " improvisation " , because both cannot be applied together.
>>>>
> > > > regards/Bhaskar.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
 Quote
Dear Bhaskar ji,When you say that most of the rules (of 4 step) have already been used
by Late Shri. Shahasane you must have presumably understood them. Therefore it is
hard to believe that an astrologer of your caliber still nd it confusing. Your allegation
that these rules are already used by Mr. Shahasane ji seems to be baseless if you say
you did not understand the rules at all. It was ruled by moderator Mr. Punit Pandey ji that
KP is what is described in KP Readers. Any new theories though derived from KP....such
as Late Dr. Kar's Theory, K. Baskaran's theory etc are named differently to identify
Guests
themselves from KP. 4 step theory is also one such theory. Can it be termed as KP just
because you are not
comfortable with naming it this way? It is your decision not to comment on 4 step any
more, however any constructive comments are always welcome. No system is complete
in itself and there is always scope for improvement. Please do not deprive the group
members to gain from your vast knowledge and experience.Thanks and
Regards,Subhash EktareBhaskar <bhaskar_jyotish Sent: Mon, December 21,
2009 2:56:43 AM Re: Which system is better. The KP or the 4 Step ?
Dear Subhash ji,
// Then I fail to understand why the fact that "he used apparent presently Titled, 4 Step
knowledge? //
What is today known as 4 Step, most of the rules have already been used by Shri
Sahasne in his books written many years ago, is what may not be common knowledge,
is what I am tring to say Sir. Removing something from KP, then adding another set of
confusing rules to it and naming it "4 Step" is not what I am comfortable with. Shri
Sahasne has made improvisations to KP in his books, mentioned the areas where he
feels further research must be done, accepted his dissatisfactions in certain areas, but
never claimed to be originator of any new theories.
If You have understood the 4 Step well, then you may be fortunate. Any improvisations if
makes some sense and is not confusing to a student - Beginner or Advanced level
student, is always welcome. I did not even understand properly your translation in the
Files Section where a 58 KB File on Fout Step theory Rules are, put up. There are about
10 Ruless mentioned which themselves contain many others within them.
Understanding the English in any article is another matter, understanding the rules is a
seperate matter, and application of them is again another junction. When to apply which
rules is again confusing. This is my personal opinion as I mentioned before.
About 4 Step I will refrain from commenting further.
kind regards,
Bhaskar.
@gro ups.com, Subhash Ektare <subhash_ektare@ ...> wrote:>> Dear Members,> > As
far as my knowledge goes, 4 step theory is based on KP principles only adding and /or
improvising some rules. Further the method of working out signi cation of each planet
is entirely different. To differentiate this aspect from KP (and not get confused as KP) it
was suitably titled as "4 Step Theory". Therefore to understand 4 step, knowledge of KP
as given in KSK's Readers is necessary. > > Secondly, in my personal opinion, I do not
nd 4 step theory confusing. There are very few rules which can be understood even by
a beginner. In fact I am very comfortable with 4 step theory.> > Late Mr. Suresh
shahasane has written many books on KP in Marathi and these were translated in Hindi
and Gujrathi, I suppose. These books must be widely used by many KP astrologers.
Then I fail to
understand why the fact that"he used apparent presently Titled, 4 Step rules, very
effectively in KP without making it confusing" may not be of common knowledge? But if
this is a fact, then credit must go to him. Frankly speaking since I have not read his
books I cannot comment on this. But there must be many members in this forum who
have read his books, can throw some light on this. > > Regards,> Subhash Ekatre> > > > >
> > ____________ _________ _________ __> Bhaskar bhaskar_jyotish@ ...> @gro ups.com>
Sun, December 20, 2009 6:26:09 AM> Re: Which system is better. The KP or the 4 Step ?
> > > Dear Punit ji,> > Thanks for spending time on my mail and giving straight honest
replies> to the queries.> > I would like to mention now that my personal
opinion is that the 4 Step> Theory may be too confusing at times with too many heavy
weighted> rules which may not all be understood properly by a student, in complete. > >
Another fact which may not be of common knowledge,> is that Late Shri Suresh
Sahasneji in his books (which were> written many years ago) has used the apparent
presently Titled,> 4 Step rules, very effectively in KP without making it confusing. > This
may have now later come to be known as 4 Step with further > rules added to it , is
another matter, but was actually KP in detail> and improvised. > > I would recommend
students to learn Traditional KP through the usual > methods and also read the above
books for grasping of further rules, > rather than going for 4 Step straightaway which I
am sorry, personally I > am not comfortable with.> > (Let me also clear this,
that I am in no way connected with selling of> above books, nor have any particular
interest, except that these books> are really one of the nest, most simple to
understand, and contains> all KP And improvised rules minus the confusions, so that
one can> understand KP very easily rather than spending 10 years to understand>
Readers or 4 Step).> > warm regards,> Bhaskar.> > > > > @gro ups.com, Punit Pandey
punitp@ wrote:> >> > Dear Bhaskar ji,> > > > We have seen some heated debate in this
forum when we try to do comparison.> > This is a KP forum, so naturally the answer will
be biased in favor of KP.> > Even then, let me take some of the questions and answer
them unbiased and> > best of my capabilities.> > > > > > *1) Which system is better.
The KP or the 4 Step ?*> > Comparison of any two systems is good. All systems do have
pros and cons.> > With the time and research we will have to highlight those points.
Also> > 4-step is a new system so it will take some time in terms of awareness> >
before even we start comparing it. In my opinion, it is too early.> > > > *2) In case the
latter, than should we discard the Traditional*> > *KP Method ?*> > As per my earlier
answer, it is too early to compare the systems. Sunil ji> > himself participate in some of
the quizzes etc. and any signi cant> > advantages of 4-step over KP has yet to be found.
In my opinion, 4-step is> > still a system under development and highly dependent upon
KP. I have seen> > 4-step astrologers mixing KP extensively.> > > > *3) Certain rules
considered as 4 Step, are already there
in*> > *the KP Traditional , albeit not in detailed manner, but*> > *references are thrown
in here and there. So can*> > *we pick up those rules which can help us in KP *> >
*traditional, or totally shift to the 4 Step ?*> > There are KP astrologer already using
those methods. Some of the methods are> > already part of modern KP. From 1966
edition to 1971 edition, we have seen> > shift towards using sub-lord (both planetary and
cuspal) more often. The> > shift is continuing and the use of sub has increased over a
period of time> > in KP.> > > > *4) If the 4 step Theory is better, than how could the old*>
> *ptactioners of Traditional KP, give so much wonderful*> > *predictions, as mentioned
in the readers and the other*> > *books from the Disciples ?*> > This is a tough
question. Neither KP practitioners,
nor 4-step or other> > practitioners are able to achieve the level we found in readers.
More> > research and study is needed.> > > > *5) Since Shri KSk was always for further
research and*> > *improvisations, we as students are ready to change,*> > *apply and
amalgamate . Which rules from the 4 Step *> > *can be picked up and applied to the
role of sub's star is already in use in KP. These> > are also used extensively in 4-step
theory. If I remember Sunil> > ji correctly, most of them are borrowed from KP only.> > >
> *6) What do you advise the new comers who enter KP.*> > *should they straight away
move towards the 4 step or*> > *should they study both the KP and the 4 step and in*> >
*that process
confuse themselves ?*> > As the basics of 4-step is in KP, I recommend going through
KP rst. Other> > members can have different opinion.> > > > *7) I am given to
understand that for certain Charts the*> > *asnwers are not available unless one applies
the *> > *4 Step. In that case what is the percentage of such *> > *charts you would give,
out of 100, where the Traditional*> > *KP does not seem to work ?*> > Truly speaking I
am not in agreement with this saying.> > > > Most of the time it happens because we
miss ner KP principles. The number> > of such charts are not very high. Though we
must remember that whichever> > system we use, there is some selections need to be
made by astrologer, and> > there comes the difference. For example, in the quizzes we
have seen that no> > two KP or 4-step
astrologers came up with the same answer.> > > > Thanks & Regards,> > > > Punit
Pandey> > > > > > On Sat, Dec 19, 2009 at 11:26 PM, Bhaskar bhaskar_jyotish@ ...wrote:>
> > > >> > >> > > *Dear Learned Senior astrologers of the Group,*> > > **> > > I was going
through the Tutorials, and stumbled upon the> > > 4 Step theory rules. Of Course I was
not unaware of> > > these.> > >> > > My Queries to you which hope would be answered
honestly> > > and with convictions and fearlessly.> > >> > > 1) Which system is *better*.
The KP or the 4 Step ?> > >> > > 2) In case the latter, than should we *discard* the
Traditional> > > KP Method ?> > >> > > 3) Certain rules
considered as 4 Step, are *already there* in> > > the KP Traditional , albeit not in detailed
manner, but> > > references are thrown in here and there. So can> > > we pick up those
rules which can help us in KP> > > traditional, or totally shift to the 4 Step ?> > >> > > 4) If
the 4 step Theory is better, than how could the old> > > ptactioners of Traditional KP, give
so much *wonderful*> > > *predictions, * as mentioned in the readers and the other> > >
books from the Disciples ?> > >> > > 5) Since Shri KSk was always for further research
and> > > improvisations, we as students are ready to change,> > > apply and
amalgamate . Which rules from the 4 Step> > > can be picked up and *applied to the
Traditional* without> > > disturbing its Structure completely
?> > >> > > 6) What do you advise the new comers who enter KP.> > > should they
straight away move towards the 4 step or> > > should they study both the KP and the 4
step and in> > > that process *confuse* themselves ?> > >> > > 7) I am given to
understand that for certain Charts the> > > asnwers are not available unless one applies
the> > > 4 Step. In that case *what is the percentage* of such> > > charts you would give,
out of 100, where the Traditional> > > KP does not seem to work ?> > >> > > As
requested above, please answer the above> > > honesty and fearlessly. We do not have
to necessarily> > > look good, but be *truthful* to ourselves and the> > > student
community.> > >> > > Please do not advise that they are "not
different systems"> > > or just an "improvisation" , because both cannot be applied
together.> > >> > > regards/Bhaskar.> > >> > >> > > > > >> >>
 Quote
dear subhashji,
Late shri. suresh shahasane was a brilliant kp astrologer.his contribution in training kp
students was great.He conducted for 3 years kp astrology conferances for which I was
Guests witness.
I was a participant .He encouraged new students in prediction.his astrology conferances

were
directly explanation of 60 horoscopes,in 3days.he advocated planet signi cation a

simple way
to analyse horoscope.he was a critic of 4 step theory.In his book jyotishveda in marathi
,he criticised
this method illustrating examples in support of it.
he said if planet is in its own star and also sub how you are going to write your four
steps?
According his practical experiences when planet is in its own star and in its own sub we
will
get same steps repetedly hence take the signi cance of subsub.
GOOD LUCK
shrikantjin
Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi Cc: Subhash Ektare <subhashMon, 21 December, 2009
3:05:03 PMRe: Re: Which system is better. The KP or the 4 Step ?
Dear Subhash,
I completely agree with you...
Yogesh Lajmi
Subhash Ektare <subhash_ektare@ >@gro ups.comMon, 21 December, 2009 5:02:39

AMRe: Re: Which system is better. The KP or the 4 Step ?
Dear Members,
As far as my knowledge goes, 4 step theory is based on KP principles only adding and
/or improvising some rules. Further the method of working out signi cation of each
planet is entirely different. To differentiate this aspect from KP (and not get confused as
KP) it was suitably titled as "4 Step Theory". Therefore to understand 4 step, knowledge
of KP as given in KSK's Readers is necessary.
Secondly, in my personal opinion, I do not nd 4 step theory confusing. There are very
few rules which can be understood even by a beginner. In fact I am very comfortable
with 4 step theory.
Late Mr.. Suresh shahasane has written many books on KP in Marathi and these were
translated in Hindi and Gujrathi, I suppose. These books must be widely used by many
KP astrologers. Then I fail to understand why the fact that "he used apparent presently
members in this forum who have read his books, can throw some light on this.
Regards,
Subhash Ekatre
Bhaskar <bhaskar_jyotish@ .co. in>@gro ups.comSun, December 20, 2009 6:26:09 AM

Dear Punit ji,
to the queries.
and improvised.
Readers or 4 Step).
warm regards,
Bhaskar.
questions and answer them unbiased and> best of my capabilities. .> > > *1) Which
case the latter, than
should we discard the Traditional*> *KP Method ?*> As per my earlier answer, it is too
early to compare the systems. Sunil ji> himself participate in some of the quizzes etc.
and any signi cant> advantages of 4-step over KP has yet to be found. In my opinion, 4-
step is> still a system under development and highly dependent upon KP. I have seen> 4-
step astrologers mixing KP extensively.> > *3) Certain rules considered as 4 Step, are
already there in*> *the KP Traditional , albeit not in detailed manner, but*> *references
are thrown in here and there. So can*> *we pick up those rules which can help us in KP
*> *traditional, or totally shift to the 4 Step ?*> There are KP astrologer already using
those methods. Some of the methods are> already part of modern KP. From 1966
edition to 1971 edition, we have seen> shift towards using sub-lord (both
planetary and cuspal) more often. The> shift is continuing and the use of sub has
increased over a period of time> in KP.> > *4) If the 4 step Theory is better, than how
could the old*> *ptactioners of Traditional KP, give so much wonderful*> *predictions, as
mentioned in the readers and the other*> *books from the Disciples ?*> This is a tough
question. Neither KP practitioners, nor 4-step or other> practitioners are able to achieve
the level we found in readers. More> research and study is needed.> > *5) Since Shri KSk
was always for further research and*> *improvisations, we as students are ready to
Positional strength and role of sub's star is already in use in KP.
These> are also used extensively in 4-step theory. If I remember Sunil> ji correctly, most
of them are borrowed from KP only.> > *6) What do you advise the new comers who
enter KP.*> *should they straight away move towards the 4 step or*> *should they study
both the KP and the 4 step and in*> *that process confuse themselves ?*> As the basics
of 4-step is in KP, I recommend going through KP rst. Other> members can have
different opinion.> > *7) I am given to understand that for certain Charts the*> *asnwers
are not available unless one applies the *> *4 Step. In that case what is the percentage
of such *> *charts you would give, out of 100, where the Traditional*> *KP does not
seem to work ?*> Truly speaking I am not in agreement with this saying.> > Most of the
time it happens because we miss ner KP principles. The
number> of such charts are not very high. Though we must remember that whichever>
system we use, there is some selections need to be made by astrologer, and> there
comes the difference. For example, in the quizzes we have seen that no> two KP or 4-
step astrologers came up with the same answer.> > Thanks & Regards,> > Punit
Pandey> > > On Sat, Dec 19, 2009 at 11:26 PM, Bhaskar bhaskar_jyotish@ ...wrote:> > >>
>> > *Dear Learned Senior astrologers of the Group,*> > **> > I was going through the
with convictions and fearlessly.> >> > 1) Which system is *better*. The KP or the 4 Step
?> >> > 2) In case the latter, than should we *discard* the Traditional> > KP Method ?> >>
Traditional KP, give so much *wonderful*> > *predictions, * as mentioned in the readers
and amalgamate . Which rules from the 4 Step> > can be picked up and
*applied to the Traditional* without> > disturbing its Structure completely ?> >> > 6)
What do you advise the new comers who enter KP.> > should they straight away move
towards the 4 step or> > should they study both the KP and the 4 step and in> > that
process *confuse* themselves ?> >> > 7) I am given to understand that for certain
Charts the> > asnwers are not available unless one applies the> > 4 Step. In that case
*what is the percentage* of such> > charts you would give, out of 100, where the
Traditional> > KP does not seem to work ?> >> > As requested above, please answer the
above> > honesty and fearlessly. We do not have to necessarily> > look good, but be
*truthful* to ourselves and the> > student community.> >> > Please do not advise that
they are "not
different systems"> > or just an "improvisation" , because both cannot be applied

together.> >> > regards/Bhaskar.> >> >> > > >>
The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Homepage.
 Quote
dear shrikant,
mr.bhaskar says that 4 step principles are laid in late shahasane's book and you
have told the truth about his criticism on 4 step theory,but dear shrikant you
Guests
have seen only one side of the coin..the reply to this argument was given in my
magazie(vasantik 2008 issue) in editorial..if you are interested to know the
second side of the coin,pl refer this issue.
thanks
-sunil gondhalekar
, j shrikant <shrikantjin wrote:
>
> dear subhashji,
> Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Late shri. suresh shahasane was a
brilliant kp astrologer.his contribution in training kp
> students was great.He conducted for 3 years kp astrology conferances for
whichÂ I was witness.
> IÂ was a participant .He encouraged new students in prediction.his astrology
conferances were
> directly explanation of 60 horoscopes,in 3days.he advocated planet
signi cation a simple way
> to analyse horoscope.he was a critic of 4 step theory.In his book jyotishveda
in marathi ,he criticised
> this method illustrating examples in support of it.
> Â Â Â Â Â Â Â he said if planet is in its own star and also sub how you are
going to write your four steps?
> According his practical experiences when planet is in its own starÂ and in
its own sub we will
> get same steps repetedly hence take the signi cance of subsub.
> Â GOOD LUCK
> Â shrikantjin
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi
>
> Cc: Subhash Ektare <subhash
> Mon, 21 December, 2009 3:05:03 PM
> Re: Re: Which system is better. The KP or the 4 Step ?
>
> Â
> Dear Subhash,
> Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â I completely agree with you...
> Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Yogesh Lajmi
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> Subhash Ektare <subhash_ektare@ >
> @gro ups.com
> Mon, 21 December, 2009 5:02:39 AM
> Re: Re: Which system is better. The KP or the 4 Step ?
>
> Â
> Dear Members,
>
> As far as my knowledge goes, 4 step theory is based on KP principles only
adding and /or improvising some rules. Further the method of working out
signi cation of each planet is entirely different. To differentiate this aspect
from KP (and not get confused as KP) it was suitably titled as " 4 Step Theory " .
Therefore to understand 4 step, knowledge of KP as given in KSK's Readers is
necessary.Â
>
> Secondly, in my personal opinion, I do not nd 4 step theory confusing. There
are very few rules which can be understood even by a beginner. In fact I am very
comfortable with 4 step theory.
>
> Late Mr.. Suresh shahasane has written many books on KP in Marathi and these
were translated in Hindi and Gujrathi, I suppose. These books must be widely
used by many KP astrologers. Then I fail to understand why the fact that " he
usedÂ apparentÂ presently Titled,Â 4 Step rules, very effectively in KP without
making it confusing " may not be of common knowledge? But if this is a fact, then
credit must go to him. Frankly speaking since I have not read his books I cannot
comment on this. But there must be many members in this forum who have read his
books, can throw some light on this.Â
>
> Regards,
> Subhash Ekatre
________________________________
> Bhaskar <bhaskar_jyotish@ .co. in>
> @gro ups.com
> Sun, December 20, 2009 6:26:09 AM
> Re: Which system is better. The KP or the 4 Step ?
>
> Â
> Dear Punit ji,
> Â
> Thanks for spending time on my mail and giving straight honest replies
> to the queries.
> Â
> I would like to mention now that my personal opinion isÂ that the 4 Step
> Theory may be too confusing at times with too many heavy weighted
> rules which may not all be understood properly by a student, in complete.
> Â
> Another fact which may not be of common knowledge,
> is that Late Shri Suresh Sahasneji in his books (which were
> written many years ago) has used the apparentÂ presently Titled,
> 4 Step rules, very effectively in KP without making it confusing.Â
> This may have now later come to be known as 4 Step with further
> rules added to it , is another matter,Â but was actually KP in detail
> and improvised.Â
> Â
> IÂ would recommend students to learn Traditional KP through the usual
> rather than going for 4 Step straightaway which I am sorry, personally I
> am not comfortable with.
> Â
> (Let me also clear this, that I am in no way connected withÂ selling of
> above books, nor have any particular interest, except that these books
> are really one of the nest, most simple to understand, and contains
> all KP And improvised rules minus the confusions, so that one can
> understand KP very easily rather than spending 10 years to understand
> Readers or 4 Step).
> Â
> warm regards,
> Bhaskar.
> Â
> Â
> Â Â
> Â Â Â Â Â
> @gro ups.com, Punit Pandey <punitp@> wrote:
>>
>>
> > We have seen some heated debate in this forum when we try to do comparison.
> > This is a KP forum, so naturally the answer will be biased in favor of KP.
> > Even then, let me take some of the questions and answer them unbiased and
> > best of my capabilities. .
>>
>>
> > Comparison of any two systems is good. All systems do have pros and cons.
> > With the time and research we will have to highlight those points. Also
>>
> > *KP Method ?*
> > As per my earlier answer, it is too early to compare the systems. Sunil ji
> > advantages of 4-step over KP has yet to be found. In my opinion, 4-step is
> > still a system under development and highly dependent upon KP. I have seen
>>
> > There are KP astrologer already using those methods. Some of the methods are
> > already part of modern KP. From 1966 edition to 1971 edition, we have seen
> > shift towards using sub-lord (both planetary and cuspal) more often. The
> > shift is continuing and the use of sub has increased over a period of time
> > in KP.
>>
> > This is a tough question. Neither KP practitioners, nor 4-step or other
>>
> > Positional strength and role of sub's star is already in use in KP. These
>>
> > As the basics of 4-step is in KP, I recommend going through KP rst. Other
>>
>>
> > Most of the time it happens because we miss ner KP principles. The number
> > of such charts are not very high. Though we must remember that whichever
> > system we use, there is some selections need to be made by astrologer, and
> > there comes the difference. For example, in the quizzes we have seen that no
>>
>>
> > Punit Pandey
>>
>>
> > On Sat, Dec 19, 2009 at 11:26 PM, Bhaskar bhaskar_jyotish@ ...wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
> > > **
> > > these.
>>>
>>>
>>>
> > > KP Method ?
>>>
>>>
> > > *predictions, * as mentioned in the readers and the other
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
> > > or just an " improvisation " , because both cannot be applied together.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
> ________________________________
> See what's on at the movies in your area. Find out now.
>
>
>
> The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Homepage.
http://in./
>
 Quote
Dear Shri Subhash ji,
Thank You Sir for your kind reply.

Guests

//When you say that most of the rules (of 4 step) have already been used by Late Shri.
Shahasane you must have presumably understood them. //

I have understood those rules whatever Shri Sahasneji has explained in his books.
Whatever is taught as "4 Step" now and presently, I am unable to understand fully, and
the application part.
//Therefore it is hard to believe that an astrologer of your caliber still nd it confusing.

Your allegation that these rules are already used by Mr. Shahasane ji seems to be
baseless if you say you did not understand the rules at all. //
Thank You, but astrologer of calibre or not , theres no de nition or scale of measures as
such.
As explained above, the rules already used in Shri Sahasnejis books are understood due
to the way its presented in a simple manner with proper illustrations.
//It was ruled by moderator Mr. Punit Pandey ji that KP is what is described in KP
Readers. Any new theories though derived from KP....such as Late Dr. Kar's Theory, K.
Baskaran's theory etc are named differently to identify themselves from KP. 4 step theory
is also one such theory. Can it be termed as KP just because you are not comfortable
with naming it this way? //
Shri Punit ji is right when he mentions that all new theories, improvisations and additions
must be given a seperate name so as it is clearly understood by any new entrant to
understand what is Original KP, and what is beyond KP. I have no issues here. But if its a
new theory then please be genuine in saying that its Original and that no rules have been
picked from any other source. If it is not new then please mention the source and also
acknowledgment of the source, with due respect given to the source before we address
ourself as the originator. Another matter is that before a theory is propounded, then
please make it undersrandable to at least 70% of the members. In an earlier mail where
reference was made by Shri Sunil ji, to Shri Sahasnejis books that he has not written
everything but written articles from his Guru Hasbe jis magazines which Shri Sunil
Gondhalekarji has admitted that Guruji has done the editing, then I do not understand
wheres the problem if Guruji Hasbe has himself done the editing ? Why must we point
ngers at anyone ? And why were you silent at that mail ? At least for Rs. 300/- the
students have got a millions Rupees worth of knowledge from his books containing
hundreds of examples and simple style of explaining the rules. The photo of his Guruji
has been put on his books, due respect has been given, his Gurujis reference is made in
almost every second Chapter. Do You see this in Shri Suniljis book which I purchased
from him for Rs.500- containg 40 pages of large Fonts (Xerox Pages) written in a hurried
manner, and absolute confused depictions of the rules ? No reference to his Guruji, no
respect , no acknowledgement, just nothing.
( If the Pravchankaar depicting stories from the Ramayana to an audience,does not pay
respect to the original VedVyas ji who is the Author of this epic, and acknowledge them,
then how can he gain grace of His guru or the respect from the audience who is listening
to his discourses ?) See I am not concerend with all this, nor am interested in Politics,
nor care for who acknolwedges whom, but mentioning this just because ngers were
pointed at Shri Sahasne ji . If I am not mistaken Shri Sunilji and Shri Shasneji have learnt
KP from the same Guru Hasbeji. pointing one nger at others means pointing 3 at
ourselves, is what made me write above.
// It is your decision not to comment on 4 step any more, however any constructive
comments are always welcome. No system is complete in itself and there is always
scope for improvement. Please do not deprive the group members to gain from your
vast knowledge and experience. //
Sir late Shri Sahasne ji, and Shri Gondhlekarji and those from their generations including
late Shri Raichurji, Yogeshji, etc. are Giants of their areas. We have much to learn from
them. Theres no question of anybody gaining from us, when they are present around
with us. And we have still much left to learn from whatever they have presented to this
generation. Now I will always give my comments if they are constructive and you may
please answer them whenever they come - astrological doubts about 4 Step. And I
assure you they will be constructive and asking for further learning , and not for derision
or unnecessary criticism.
I humbly submit again -
1) We wish to learn the 4 Step, if its really useful.
2) But the present formats available for learning 4 Step is not satisfactory.
3) The rules are not demercated su ciently understandable enough.
4) If people like your goodself, Shri Tinwinji, Shri Gondhlekarji, Shri Yogeshji, Shri Punitji,
etc. and whoever has understood the 4 Step properly are able to write exhaustive
Chapters with illustrations at every Step, and also make it in a Book form or make it
available on the Net for download, it will become very useful for those who have learnt
KP and you will be doing a wonderful service to the present and coming generations
without doubt.
5) Even if the Book form costs Rs.1000- I am willing to pay for it. (this is to con rm that
we are serious in wanting to study the same, but feel helpless with the current formats
of presentations).
6) Commercialisation is okay because one needs money to even have a morning cup of
Tea, but write books which serve the purpose, for which the reader buys them, and not to
confuse them, so that they come back asking for further information.
I am sorry and apologise if I have offended anyone connected to the 4 Step, and my full
respects to Shri Gondhlekarji for presenting the 4 Step theory to us. He is a very
knowledgable man, and I have nothing personal against him, so please ignore the wrong
signals if any. I just wish that everyone must be given his due respect as regards to the 4
Step theory for wehatver has been their contributions.
Thanks and Regards,
bhaskar.
, Subhash Ektare <subhash_ektare wrote:>> Dear Bhaskar ji,> > When you say that most
of the rules (of 4 step) have already been used by Late Shri. Shahasane you must have
presumably understood them. Therefore it is hard to believe that an astrologer of your
caliber still nd it confusing. Your allegation that these rules are already used by Mr.
Shahasane ji seems to be baseless if you say you did not understand the rules at all. > >
It was ruled by moderator Mr. Punit Pandey ji that KP is what is described in KP Readers.
Any new theories though derived from KP....such as Late Dr. Kar's Theory, K. Baskaran's
theory etc are named differently to identify themselves from KP. 4 step theory is also
one such theory. Can it be termed as KP just because you are not comfortable with
naming it this way? It is your decision not to comment on 4 step any more, however any
constructive comments are always welcome. No system is complete in itself and there
is always scope for improvement. Please do not deprive the group members to gain
from your vast knowledge and experience.> > Thanks and Regards,> > Subhash Ektare>
> > > > > ________________________________> Bhaskar bhaskar_jyotish > Mon, December
21, 2009 2:56:43 AM> Re: Which system is better. The KP or the 4 Step ?> > > Dear
Subhash ji,> // Then I fail to understand why the fact that"he used apparent presently
common knowledge? //> What is today known as 4 Step, most of the rules have already
been used by Shri Sahasne in his books written many years ago, is what may not be
common knowledge, is what I am tring to say Sir. Removing something from KP, then
adding another set of confusing rules to it and naming it "4 Step" is not what I am
comfortable with. Shri Sahasne has made improvisations to KP in his books, mentioned
the areas where he feels further research must be done, accepted his dissatisfactions in
certain areas, but never claimed to be originator of any new theories. > If You have
understood the 4 Step well, then you may be fortunate. Any improvisations if makes
some sense and is not confusing to a student - Beginner or Advanced level student, is
always welcome. I did not even understand properly your translation in the Files Section
where a 58 KB File on Fout Step theory Rules are, put up. There are about 10 Ruless
mentioned which themselves contain many others within them. Understanding the
English in any article is another matter, understanding the rules is a seperate matter, and
application of them is again another junction. When to apply which rules is again
confusing. This is my personal opinion as I mentioned before.> About 4 Step I will refrain
from commenting further.> kind regards,> Bhaskar.> > > > > @gro ups.com, Subhash
Ektare <subhash_ektare@ ...> wrote:> >> > Dear Members,> > > > As far as my
knowledge goes, 4 step theory is based on KP principles only adding and /or improvising
some rules. Further the method of working out signi cation of each planet is entirely
different. To differentiate this aspect from KP (and not get confused as KP) it was
suitably titled as "4 Step Theory". Therefore to understand 4 step, knowledge of KP as
given in KSK's Readers is necessary. > > > > Secondly, in my personal opinion, I do not
nd 4 step theory confusing. There are very few rules which can be understood even by
a beginner. In fact I am very comfortable with 4 step theory.> > > > Late Mr. Suresh
shahasane has written many books on KP in Marathi and these were translated in Hindi
and Gujrathi, I suppose. These books must be widely used by many KP astrologers.
Then I fail to understand why the fact that"he used apparent presently Titled, 4 Step
knowledge? But if this is a fact, then credit must go to him. Frankly speaking since I have
not read his books I cannot comment on this. But there must be many members in this
forum who have read his books, can throw some light on this. > > > > Regards,> >
Subhash Ekatre> > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __> > Bhaskar
bhaskar_jyotish@ ...> > @gro ups.com> > Sun, December 20, 2009 6:26:09 AM> > Re:
Which system is better. The KP or the 4 Step ?> > > > > > Dear Punit ji,> > > > Thanks for
spending time on my mail and giving straight honest replies> > to the queries.> > > > I
would like to mention now that my personal opinion is that the 4 Step> > Theory may be
too confusing at times with too many heavy weighted> > rules which may not all be
understood properly by a student, in complete. > > > > Another fact which may not be of
common knowledge,> > is that Late Shri Suresh Sahasneji in his books (which were> >
written many years ago) has used the apparent presently Titled,> > 4 Step rules, very
effectively in KP without making it confusing. > > This may have now later come to be
known as 4 Step with further > > rules added to it , is another matter, but was actually KP
in detail> > and improvised. > > > > I would recommend students to learn Traditional KP
through the usual > > methods and also read the above books for grasping of further
rules, > > rather than going for 4 Step straightaway which I am sorry, personally I > > am
not comfortable with.> > > > (Let me also clear this, that I am in no way connected with
selling of> > above books, nor have any particular interest, except that these books> >
are really one of the nest, most simple to understand, and contains> > all KP And
improvised rules minus the confusions, so that one can> > understand KP very easily
rather than spending 10 years to understand> > Readers or 4 Step).> > > > warm
regards,> > Bhaskar.> > > > > > > > > > @gro ups.com, Punit Pandey punitp@ wrote:> > >>
> > Dear Bhaskar ji,> > > > > > We have seen some heated debate in this forum when we
try to do comparison.> > > This is a KP forum, so naturally the answer will be biased in
favor of KP.> > > Even then, let me take some of the questions and answer them
unbiased and> > > best of my capabilities.> > > > > > > > > *1) Which system is better.
The KP or the 4 Step ?*> > > Comparison of any two systems is good. All systems do
have pros and cons.> > > With the time and research we will have to highlight those
points. Also> > > 4-step is a new system so it will take some time in terms of
awareness> > > before even we start comparing it. In my opinion, it is too early.> > > > >
> *2) In case the latter, than should we discard the Traditional*> > > *KP Method ?*> > >
As per my earlier answer, it is too early to compare the systems. Sunil ji> > > himself
participate in some of the quizzes etc. and any signi cant> > > advantages of 4-step
over KP has yet to be found. In my opinion, 4-step is> > > still a system under
development and highly dependent upon KP. I have seen> > > 4-step astrologers mixing
KP extensively.> > > > > > *3) Certain rules considered as 4 Step, are already there in*> >
> *the KP Traditional , albeit not in detailed manner, but*> > > *references are thrown in
here and there. So can*> > > *we pick up those rules which can help us in KP *> > >
*traditional, or totally shift to the 4 Step ?*> > > There are KP astrologer already using
those methods. Some of the methods are> > > already part of modern KP. From 1966
edition to 1971 edition, we have seen> > > shift towards using sub-lord (both planetary
and cuspal) more often. The> > > shift is continuing and the use of sub has increased
over a period of time> > > in KP.> > > > > > *4) If the 4 step Theory is better, than how
could the old*> > > *ptactioners of Traditional KP, give so much wonderful*> > >
*predictions, as mentioned in the readers and the other*> > > *books from the Disciples
?*> > > This is a tough question. Neither KP practitioners, nor 4-step or other> > >
practitioners are able to achieve the level we found in readers. More> > > research and
study is needed.> > > > > > *5) Since Shri KSk was always for further research and*> > >
*improvisations, we as students are ready to change,*> > > *apply and amalgamate .
Which rules from the 4 Step *> > > *can be picked up and applied to the Traditional
without *> > > *disturbing its Structure completely ?*> > > Positional strength and role of
sub's star is already in use in KP. These> > > are also used extensively in 4-step theory. If
I remember Sunil> > > ji correctly, most of them are borrowed from KP only.> > > > > > *6)
What do you advise the new comers who enter KP.*> > > *should they straight away
move towards the 4 step or*> > > *should they study both the KP and the 4 step and in*>
> > *that process confuse themselves ?*> > > As the basics of 4-step is in KP, I
recommend going through KP rst. Other> > > members can have different opinion.> > >
> > > *7) I am given to understand that for certain Charts the*> > > *asnwers are not
available unless one applies the *> > > *4 Step. In that case what is the percentage of
such *> > > *charts you would give, out of 100, where the Traditional*> > > *KP does not
seem to work ?*> > > Truly speaking I am not in agreement with this saying.> > > > > >
Most of the time it happens because we miss ner KP principles. The number> > > of
such charts are not very high. Though we must remember that whichever> > > system
we use, there is some selections need to be made by astrologer, and> > > there comes
the difference. For example, in the quizzes we have seen that no> > > two KP or 4-step
astrologers came up with the same answer.> > > > > > Thanks & Regards,> > > > > > Punit
Pandey> > > > > > > > > On Sat, Dec 19, 2009 at 11:26 PM, Bhaskar bhaskar_jyotish@
...wrote:> > > > > > >> > > >> > > > *Dear Learned Senior astrologers of the Group,*> > > >
**> > > > I was going through the Tutorials, and stumbled upon the> > > > 4 Step theory
rules. Of Course I was not unaware of> > > > these.> > > >> > > > My Queries to you
which hope would be answered honestly> > > > and with convictions and fearlessly.> > >
>> > > > 1) Which system is *better*. The KP or the 4 Step ?> > > >> > > > 2) In case the
latter, than should we *discard* the Traditional> > > > KP Method ?> > > >> > > > 3)
Certain rules considered as 4 Step, are *already there* in> > > > the KP Traditional , albeit
not in detailed manner, but> > > > references are thrown in here and there. So can> > > >
we pick up those rules which can help us in KP> > > > traditional, or totally shift to the 4
Step ?> > > >> > > > 4) If the 4 step Theory is better, than how could the old> > > >
ptactioners of Traditional KP, give so much *wonderful*> > > > *predictions, * as
mentioned in the readers and the other> > > > books from the Disciples ?> > > >> > > > 5)
Since Shri KSk was always for further research and> > > > improvisations, we as
students are ready to change,> > > > apply and amalgamate . Which rules from the 4
Step> > > > can be picked up and *applied to the Traditional* without> > > > disturbing its
Structure completely ?> > > >> > > > 6) What do you advise the new comers who enter
KP.> > > > should they straight away move towards the 4 step or> > > > should they study
both the KP and the 4 step and in> > > > that process *confuse* themselves ?> > > >> > >
> 7) I am given to understand that for certain Charts the> > > > asnwers are not available
unless one applies the> > > > 4 Step. In that case *what is the percentage* of such> > > >
charts you would give, out of 100, where the Traditional> > > > KP does not seem to work
?> > > >> > > > As requested above, please answer the above> > > > honesty and
fearlessly. We do not have to necessarily> > > > look good, but be *truthful* to ourselves
and the> > > > student community.> > > >> > > > Please do not advise that they are "not
different systems"> > > > or just an "improvisation" , because both cannot be applied
together.> > > >> > > > regards/Bhaskar.> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> >>
 Quote
Dear Shrikant ji,
Right.
Guests

I had asked a similiar question to the members here 2 years ago, about
what must Rahu consider to signify (My own horoscope) if Rahu is in its
own sub. they did not have any answer for this. Then I explained them,
what Shri Sahasneji has taught me, and it lls in correctly after
having undergone 2 years of Rahu Mahadasha. (We have to move to the sub
sub Lord now in such cases, and in my case it was Budh, and since no
planet in star of Budh, Shri Sahasneji explained me personally that rahu
will now become a rst class signi cator for Budh who is lord of 2nd
and 11th in My chart - Leo ascendant, and that rahu mahadasha will be
the best for you in terms of material )
I also asked them what would happen if two planets are conjunct in same
degrees and in same Sub. and if they are running Mahadashas one after
the other, then what will be the difference in their Mahadasha results,
since the Sub is the same for both mahadasha Lords. Again no answer was
forthcoming from the learned astrologers here. Then I cited a reference
from Shri Chandrakant bhatts book where it is clearly mentioned that if
Raashi Lord, StarLord, Sublord is same for the two planets, then the
planet which has a subsublord signifying the bene c houses will happen
to be a better mahadasha.
This brought some disaapointment to me when I could nd no Learned
members here could reply to my two queries above and an ordinary student
and astrologer like me could give the answer due to the grace of his
Guru. I decided to spend less time on the Forum, and concentrate more on
what could be learnt further.
Sorry, if anyone nds any thing irrelevant here.
regards,
Bhaskar.
, j shrikant <shrikantjin wrote:
>
> dear subhashji,
>ÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂ
Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Late shri. suresh shahasane was a
> students was great.He conducted for 3 years kp astrology conferances
for whichÂ I was witness.
> IÂ was a participant .He encouraged new students in prediction.his
astrology conferances were
> to analyse horoscope.he was a critic of 4 step theory.In his book
jyotishveda in marathi ,he criticised
> Â Â Â Â Â Â Â he said if planet is in its own
star and also sub how you are going to write your four steps?
> According his practical experiences when planet is in its own starÂ
and in its own sub we will
> Â GOOD LUCK
> Â shrikantjin
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> Yogesh Lajmi yogeshlajmi
>
> Cc: Subhash Ektare subhash
> Mon, 21 December, 2009 3:05:03 PM
> Re: Re: Which system is better. The KP or the 4
Step ?
>
>Â
> Dear Subhash,
Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â I completely agree with you...
Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Yogesh Lajmi
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> @gro ups.com
> Mon, 21 December, 2009 5:02:39 AM
Step ?
>
>Â
> Dear Members,
>
> As far as my knowledge goes, 4 step theory is based on KP principles
only adding and /or improvising some rules. Further the method of
working out signi cation of each planet is entirely different. To
differentiate this aspect from KP (and not get confused as KP) it was
suitably titled as " 4 Step Theory " . Therefore to understand 4 step,
knowledge of KP as given in KSK's Readers is necessary.Â
>
> Secondly, in my personal opinion, I do not nd 4 step theory
confusing. There are very few rules which can be understood even by a
beginner. In fact I am very comfortable with 4 step theory.
>
> Late Mr.. Suresh shahasane has written many books on KP in Marathi and
these were translated in Hindi and Gujrathi, I suppose. These books must
be widely used by many KP astrologers. Then I fail to understand why the
fact that " he usedÂ apparentÂ presently Titled,Â 4 Step rules,
very effectively in KP without making it confusing " may not be of common
knowledge? But if this is a fact, then credit must go to him. Frankly
speaking since I have not read his books I cannot comment on this. But
throw some light on this.Â
>
> Regards,
> Subhash Ekatre
________________________________
> @gro ups.com
> Sun, December 20, 2009 6:26:09 AM
> Re: Which system is better. The KP or the 4 Step
>
>Â
> Dear Punit ji,
>Â
> to the queries.
>Â
> I would like to mention now that my personal opinion isÂ that the 4
Step
> rules which may not all be understood properly by a student, in
complete.
>Â
> written many years ago) has used the apparentÂ presently Titled,
> 4 Step rules, very effectively in KP without making it confusing.Â
> rules added to it , is another matter,Â but was actually KP in
detail
> and improvised.Â
>Â
> IÂ would recommend students to learn Traditional KP through the
usual
> rather than going for 4 Step straightaway which I am sorry, personally
>Â
> (Let me also clear this, that I am in no way connected withÂ
selling of
>Â
> warm regards,
> Bhaskar.
>Â
>Â
>ÂÂ
>ÂÂÂÂÂ
> @gro ups.com, Punit Pandey punitp@ wrote:
>>
>>
comparison.
> > This is a KP forum, so naturally the answer will be biased in favor
of KP.
> > Even then, let me take some of the questions and answer them
unbiased and
>>
>>
cons.
Also
> > 4-step is a new system so it will take some time in terms of
awareness
>>
> > *KP Method ?*
Sunil ji
4-step is
> > still a system under development and highly dependent upon KP. I
have seen
>>
methods are
> > already part of modern KP. From 1966 edition to 1971 edition, we
have seen
The
> > shift is continuing and the use of sub has increased over a period
of time
> > in KP.
>>
other
> > practitioners are able to achieve the level we found in readers.
More
>>
These
>>
> > As the basics of 4-step is in KP, I recommend going through KP
rst. Other
>>
>>
number
whichever
> > system we use, there is some selections need to be made by
astrologer, and
that no
>>
>>
> > Punit Pandey
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
> > > **
> > > these.
>>>
>>>
>>>
> > > KP Method ?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
> > > or just an " improvisation " , because both cannot be applied
together.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
> ________________________________
>
>
>
http://in./
>
 Quote
Dear Sri Bhaskar & Sri Pandey Ji,
I have gone thru both the emails. In this connection I wish to inform you that
Guests
Sri KSK ji out of his experience from Vedic he came out with his concept which
we are calling it as Traditional KP. Guruji during his life time (for human
being longevity is limitation one is not eternal) he invented the sublord
application from vimsothari concept it is also an extension of Vedic and not a
new subject. Becaz of his age limitation he could not do further (at that time
this group activity, computers, net is in the initial stages) research on this
new kp concept (sublord) at that time (1970).
During 1980 I entered from Vedic to Kp and continued the same becaz of its
scienti c way of analysis. At that time I used to see the sublord signi cation
also to give a positive reply to the client when starlord does not in any way
connected to the relevant houses, as sublord is trump card in this system. I
used to see the signi cance of the sublord, also see the cuspal sublord, or
starlord of relevant cusp, if any of the three conditions are satis ed then I
used counsel the client that he/she could get the desired result. (Becaz it is
our Vaksiddhi we do regular prayers and then predict for the client) Normally
we should not try to predict negative things to the client unless it is
unwarranted. In case of longevity we should be more careful becaz Astrologers
noramlly have good mercury and 5n9 houses for astrology practice, then our Vakk
sidhi should not be used for predicting negative things to the detriment of
Jatakudu. Jatakudu approaches u for mental support thru your knowledge.
I used to predict thru sublord signi cation also which used to come true and
many of my clients would come back with good feed back. Then during that time I
do not know I am using the 3rd/4th step i.e. sublord and its starlord theory in
my predictions.
Later on the same has come in a form of theory by Sri Sunil ji, more useful in
predictive astrology for the beginners to gain quick recognition in this eld.
Now any discussion on this topic whether this method or that method, is draining
our rich and valuable hours which we can safely use in testing the theories with
practical charts which would create the con dence in us.
During 1970s KSK ji has given the rst generation 286 Pcs to us now we have
developed it to 5th generation Dual Core systems. That means the old system is
thresh hold for this superstructure. We should concetrate on signi cators of
ABCDE level (as said by Sri Dhanbalan) and should also see the 4 step theory,
cuspal interlinks, cusps starlords, cuspal interception, to give more accurate
predictions.
I could see this group has now launched into quizs and research activities
instead of spending our valuable time on discussion of old theories which is
accurate / in accurate.
I request all the stalwarts of KP Astrology should launch on new areas where it
requires further research to reach at ner predictions.
O.V.N.Murthy, M.Com. FCS.I CWAI. PGDPA.
Company Secretary,
Nizam Sugars Limited,
Hyderabad-500004A.P.
Ph.No. Off.23232212 / Res 040 27405975; Mob.9441778427
www.saibhavishyavani.com
ovnmurthy
>
> Dear Learned Senior astrologers of the Group, I was going through the
> Tutorials, and stumbled upon the 4 Step theory rules. Of Course I was
> not unaware of these. My Queries to you which hope would be answered
> honestly and with convictions and fearlessly. 1) Which system is
> better. The KP or the 4 Step ? 2) In case the latter, than should we
> discard the Traditional KP Method ? 3) Certain rules considered as 4
> Step, are already there in the KP Traditional , albeit not in detailed
> manner, but references are thrown in here and there. So can we pick up
> those rules which can help us in KP traditional, or totally shift to
> the 4 Step ? 4) If the 4 step Theory is better, than how could the
> old ptactioners of Traditional KP, give so much wonderful predictions,
> as mentioned in the readers and the other books from the Disciples ?
> 5) Since Shri KSk was always for further research and improvisations, we
> as students are ready to change, apply and amalgamate . Which rules from
> the 4 Step can be picked up and applied to the Traditional without
> disturbing its Structure completely ? 6) What do you advise the new
> comers who enter KP. should they straight away move towards the 4 step
> or should they study both the KP and the 4 step and in that process
> confuse themselves ? 7) I am given to understand that for certain
> Charts the asnwers are not available unless one applies the 4 Step. In
> that case what is the percentage of such charts you would give, out of
> 100, where the Traditional KP does not seem to work ? As requested
> above, please answer the above honesty and fearlessly. We do not have to
> necessarily look good, but be truthful to ourselves and the student
> community. Please do not advise that they are " not different systems "
> or just an " improvisation " , because both cannot be applied together.
> regards/Bhaskar.
>
 Quote
bhaskarji and allLot of depends upon the mood of astrologer and the time of event of
seeing the question.Shahasane or Gondhalekar or even KSK....and all...We must look at
a constructive study combining all theories..NOT a single one and come to logic of
answering public querries.4step gives more permutation and combinations so results
sucess ratio may icker more ( i feel so) DBA period makes ALL....success (Dabba or
Guests
dhabba) (pl take hindi meaning) rest one must not argue on teaching learned astrologer
the method.just keep cool and read on...learn on....even if predictions fail.....fails many
times...rajiv bokaariyaBhaskar <bhaskar_jyotish Sent: Tue, 22 December, 2009 1:17:18
PMSubject:
Dear Shrikant ji,
Right.
I had asked a similiar question to the members here 2 years ago, about
what must Rahu consider to signify (My own horoscope) if Rahu is in its
own sub. they did not have any answer for this. Then I explained them,
what Shri Sahasneji has taught me, and it lls in correctly after
having undergone 2 years of Rahu Mahadasha. (We have to move to the sub
sub Lord now in such cases, and in my case it was Budh, and since no
planet in star of Budh, Shri Sahasneji explained me personally that rahu
will now become a rst class signi cator for Budh who is lord of 2nd
and 11th in My chart - Leo ascendant, and that rahu mahadasha will be
the best for you in terms of material )
I also asked them what would happen if two planets are conjunct in same
degrees and in same Sub. and if they are running Mahadashas one after
the other, then what will be the difference in their Mahadasha results,
since the Sub is the same for both mahadasha Lords. Again no answer was
forthcoming from the learned astrologers here. Then I cited a reference
from Shri Chandrakant bhatts book where it is clearly mentioned that if
Raashi Lord, StarLord, Sublord is same for the two planets, then the
planet which has a subsublord signifying the bene c houses will happen
to be a better mahadasha.
This brought some disaapointment to me when I could nd no Learned
members here could reply to my two queries above and an ordinary student
and astrologer like me could give the answer due to the grace of his
Guru. I decided to spend less time on the Forum, and concentrate more on
what could be learnt further.
Sorry, if anyone nds any thing irrelevant here.
regards,
Bhaskar.
@gro ups.com, j shrikant <shrikantjin@ ...> wrote:
>
> dear subhashji,
> Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚
Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Late shri. suresh shahasane was a
> students was great.He conducted for 3 years kp astrology conferances
for whichÃ‚ I was witness.
> IÃ‚ was a participant .He encouraged new students in prediction.his
astrology conferances were
> to analyse horoscope.he was a critic of 4 step theory.In his book
jyotishveda in marathi ,he criticised
> Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ he said if planet is in its own
star and also sub how you are going to write your four steps?
> According his practical experiences when planet is in its own starÃ‚
and in its own sub we will
> Ã‚ GOOD LUCK
> Ã‚ shrikantjin@ ...
>
>
>
> ____________ _________ _________ __
> Yogesh Lajmi yogeshlajmi@ ...
> @gro ups.com
> Cc: Subhash Ektare subhash
> Mon, 21 December, 2009 3:05:03 PM
Step ?
>
> Ã‚
> Dear Subhash,
> Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚
Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ I completely agree with you...
> Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚
Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Yogesh Lajmi
>
>
>
>
> ____________ _________ _________ __
> @gro ups.com
> Mon, 21 December, 2009 5:02:39 AM
Step ?
>
> Ã‚
> Dear Members,
>
> As far as my knowledge goes, 4 step theory is based on KP principles
only adding and /or improvising some rules. Further the method of
working out signi cation of each planet is entirely different. To
differentiate this aspect from KP (and not get confused as KP) it was
suitably titled as "4 Step Theory". Therefore to understand 4 step,
knowledge of KP as given in KSK's Readers is necessary.Ã‚
>
> Secondly, in my personal opinion, I do not nd 4 step theory
confusing. There are very few rules which can be understood even by a
beginner. In fact I am very comfortable with 4 step theory.
>
> Late Mr.. Suresh shahasane has written many books on KP in Marathi and
these were translated in Hindi and Gujrathi, I suppose. These books must
be widely used by many KP astrologers. Then I fail to understand why the
fact that"he usedÃ‚ apparentÃ‚ presently Titled,Ã‚ 4 Step rules,
very effectively in KP without making it confusing" may not be of common
knowledge? But if this is a fact, then credit must go to him. Frankly
speaking since I have not read his books I cannot comment on this. But
throw some light on this.Ã‚
>
> Regards,
> Subhash Ekatre
____________ _________ _________ __
> @gro ups.com
> Sun, December 20, 2009 6:26:09 AM
> Re: Which system is better. The KP or the 4 Step
>
> Ã‚
> Dear Punit ji,
> Ã‚
> to the queries.
> Ã‚
> I would like to mention now that my personal opinion isÃ‚ that the 4
Step
> rules which may not all be understood properly by a student, in
complete.
> Ã‚
> written many years ago) has used the apparentÃ‚ presently Titled,
> 4 Step rules, very effectively in KP without making it confusing.Ã‚
> rules added to it , is another matter,Ã‚ but was actually KP in
detail
> and improvised.Ã‚
> Ã‚
> IÃ‚ would recommend students to learn Traditional KP through the
usual
> rather than going for 4 Step straightaway which I am sorry, personally
> Ã‚
> (Let me also clear this, that I am in no way connected withÃ‚
selling of
> Ã‚
> warm regards,
> Bhaskar.
> Ã‚
> Ã‚
> Ã‚ Ã‚
> Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚
> @gro ups.com, Punit Pandey punitp@ wrote:
>>
>>
comparison.
> > This is a KP forum, so naturally the answer will be biased in favor
of KP.
> > Even then, let me take some of the questions and answer them
unbiased and
>>
>>
cons.
Also
> > 4-step is a new system so it will take some time in terms of
awareness
>>
> > *KP Method ?*
Sunil ji
4-step is
> > still a system under development and highly dependent upon KP. I
have seen
>>
methods are
> > already part of modern KP. From 1966 edition to 1971 edition, we
have seen
The
> > shift is continuing and the use of sub has increased over a period
of time
> > in KP.
>>
other
> > practitioners are able to achieve the level we found in readers.
More
>>
These
>>
> > As the basics of 4-step is in KP, I recommend going through KP
rst. Other
>>
>>
number
whichever
> > system we use, there is some selections need to be made by
astrologer, and
that no
>>
>>
> > Punit Pandey
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
> > > **
> > > these.
>>>
>>>
>>>
> > > KP Method ?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
> > > Please do not advise that they are "not different systems"
> > > or just an "improvisation" , because both cannot be applied
together.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
> ____________ _________ _________ __
>
>
>
http://in.. com/
>
The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Homepage.
 Quote
dear shri bhaskar,
our guru's name is Jyotindra Hasbe.the photo of hasbe is in shahasane's book..so
pl.spell his name rightly.late hasbe was a direct student of KSK and KSK has
Guests
given him permission to translate to religion language..this information will be
found in old A & A magazine.
4 step theory was inspired from articles " sublord speaks " by K.M.Subramanium.My
guru hasbe has asked me to study these articles as he was knowing that KSK was
using planet's sub's star in some cases..so as you said i also say that credit
of 4 step theory goes to my guru,hasbe.
you can contact me for your di culties of 4 step theory by personally or over
phone..i will be happy to answer you.
thanks
-sunil gondhalekar
>
> Sir,
>
> I have nothing against Your goodself or the theory itself, nor any contentions
about who is the originator. My main purpose is that the students must be told
what is better for them to be studied primarily, and then later on secondarily.
Which is why this query was put up, so that matters are cleared once again.
>
> I have also purchased your book of 40 Pages on 4 step theory costing Rs.500- 2
years ago, from which i was not able to understand anything. Please consider
this my inability and not take it otherwise please.
>
> Whether articles written by Sahasne ji were edited from late Kasbe gurujis
magazine or not, I am not sure, and neither am intersted in knowing so. I do not
think that anybody of his stature would straightaway lift it and then write it
in his name. I do not believe this. If he has done so, then he must have taken
the permissions to do so. But if he had done so, he would have mentioned it,
which he has not. So no point in talking who wrote what and from where
especially about persons who are no more alive to defend themselves.
>
> The 4 Step theory if You are the originator, then its ne. I wish to study
it, but am not able to understand how. Can You guide us how to study it in the
simplest form, as you say its the simplest theory based on KP ? Another point,
some steps of 4 step theory are already been written by Shri Sahasne much before
your goodself introduced this as 4 Step. In that case the credit must go to Shri
Kasbe ji as the originator, since you say that sahasneji has written all from
Shri Kasbejis articles ? Right ?
>
> Anyway we are not here to argue or discuss on such minor matters. If 4 step
theory is good, then please present it in a simple form for the students bene t
please, or write another book taking pains to ll it with content which
simpli es the whole theory, so that the readers and students can take advantage
of the same, is my only request you to.
>
> Kind regards,
> Bhaskar.
, " sunilalaka " <sunilalaka@> wrote:
>>
> > dear bhaskar,
> > thanks for your personal views about 4 step theory.
> > i dont understand then why you put up such a query
> > about 4 step theory?
>>
> > punitji rightly said that it is based on kp method
> > and himself agrres that this is a kp forum and thats why
> > bias opinion is placed,anyway.
>>
> > dear bhaskar,4 step theory is totally developed by me
> > and it has nothing to do with shahasane's books.actually
> > the books are only edited and not fully written by shahasane.
> > all the articles were from " nakshtra sanchit darpan " magazine
> > edited by late hasbe guruji...this is for your information.
>>
> > in my opinion,4 step theory is the simplest theory based on
> > kpmethod.many logers switched over to this theory in maharashtra.
>>
> > thanks
>>
> > -sunil gondhalekar
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
> > , " Bhaskar " <bhaskar_jyotish@> wrote:
>>>
> > > Dear Punit ji, Thanks for spending time on my mail and giving straight
> > > honest replies to the queries. I would like to mention now that my
> > > personal opinion is that the 4 Step Theory may be too confusing at times
> > > with too many heavy weighted rules which may not all be understood
> > > properly by a student, in complete. Another fact which may not be of
> > > common knowledge, is that Late Shri Suresh Sahasneji in his books (which
> > > were written many years ago) has used the apparent presently Titled, 4
> > > Step rules, very effectively in KP without making it confusing. This
> > > may have now later come to be known as 4 Step with further rules added
> > > to it , is another matter, but was actually KP in detail and improvised.
> > > I would recommend students to learn Traditional KP through the usual
> > > methods and also read the above books for grasping of further rules,
> > > rather than going for 4 Step straightaway which I am sorry, personally I
> > > am not comfortable with. (Let me also clear this, that I am in no way
> > > connected with selling of above books, nor have any particular interest,
> > > except that these books are really one of the nest, most simple to
> > > understand, and contains all KP And improvised rules minus the
> > > confusions, so that one can understand KP very easily rather than
> > > spending 10 years to understand Readers or 4 Step). warm regards,
> > > Bhaskar.
> > > , Punit Pandey <punitp@> wrote:
>>>>
> > > > Dear Bhaskar ji,
>>>>
> > > > We have seen some heated debate in this forum when we try to do
> > > comparison.
> > > > This is a KP forum, so naturally the answer will be biased in favor of
> > > KP.
> > > > Even then, let me take some of the questions and answer them unbiased
> > > and
> > > > best of my capabilities.
>>>>
>>>>
> > > > *1) Which system is better. The KP or the 4 Step ?*
> > > > Comparison of any two systems is good. All systems do have pros and
> > > cons.
> > > > With the time and research we will have to highlight those points.
> > > Also
> > > > 4-step is a new system so it will take some time in terms of awareness
> > > > before even we start comparing it. In my opinion, it is too early.
>>>>
> > > > *2) In case the latter, than should we discard the Traditional*
> > > > *KP Method ?*
> > > > As per my earlier answer, it is too early to compare the systems.
> > > Sunil ji
> > > > himself participate in some of the quizzes etc. and any signi cant
> > > > advantages of 4-step over KP has yet to be found. In my opinion,
> > > 4-step is
> > > > still a system under development and highly dependent upon KP. I have
> > > seen
> > > > 4-step astrologers mixing KP extensively.
>>>>
> > > > *3) Certain rules considered as 4 Step, are already there in*
> > > > *the KP Traditional , albeit not in detailed manner, but*
> > > > *references are thrown in here and there. So can*
> > > > *we pick up those rules which can help us in KP *
> > > > *traditional, or totally shift to the 4 Step ?*
> > > > There are KP astrologer already using those methods. Some of the
> > > methods are
> > > > already part of modern KP. From 1966 edition to 1971 edition, we have
> > > seen
> > > > shift towards using sub-lord (both planetary and cuspal) more often.
> > > The
> > > > shift is continuing and the use of sub has increased over a period of
> > > time
> > > > in KP.
>>>>
> > > > *4) If the 4 step Theory is better, than how could the old*
> > > > *ptactioners of Traditional KP, give so much wonderful*
> > > > *predictions, as mentioned in the readers and the other*
> > > > *books from the Disciples ?*
> > > > This is a tough question. Neither KP practitioners, nor 4-step or
> > > other
> > > > practitioners are able to achieve the level we found in readers. More
> > > > research and study is needed.
>>>>
> > > > *5) Since Shri KSk was always for further research and*
> > > > *improvisations, we as students are ready to change,*
> > > > *apply and amalgamate . Which rules from the 4 Step *
> > > > *can be picked up and applied to the Traditional without *
> > > > *disturbing its Structure completely ?*
> > > > Positional strength and role of sub's star is already in use in KP.
> > > These
> > > > are also used extensively in 4-step theory. If I remember Sunil
> > > > ji correctly, most of them are borrowed from KP only.
>>>>
> > > > *6) What do you advise the new comers who enter KP.*
> > > > *should they straight away move towards the 4 step or*
> > > > *should they study both the KP and the 4 step and in*
> > > > *that process confuse themselves ?*
> > > > As the basics of 4-step is in KP, I recommend going through KP rst.
> > > Other
> > > > members can have different opinion.
>>>>
> > > > *7) I am given to understand that for certain Charts the*
> > > > *asnwers are not available unless one applies the *
> > > > *4 Step. In that case what is the percentage of such *
> > > > *charts you would give, out of 100, where the Traditional*
> > > > *KP does not seem to work ?*
> > > > Truly speaking I am not in agreement with this saying.
>>>>
> > > > Most of the time it happens because we miss ner KP principles. The
> > > number
> > > > of such charts are not very high. Though we must remember that
> > > whichever
> > > > system we use, there is some selections need to be made by astrologer,
> > > and
> > > > there comes the difference. For example, in the quizzes we have seen
> > > that no
> > > > two KP or 4-step astrologers came up with the same answer.
>>>>
> > > > Thanks & Regards,
>>>>
> > > > Punit Pandey
>>>>
>>>>
> > > > On Sat, Dec 19, 2009 at 11:26 PM, Bhaskar bhaskar_jyotish@:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
> > > > > *Dear Learned Senior astrologers of the Group,*
> > > > > **
> > > > > I was going through the Tutorials, and stumbled upon the
> > > > > 4 Step theory rules. Of Course I was not unaware of
> > > > > these.
>>>>>
> > > > > My Queries to you which hope would be answered honestly
> > > > > and with convictions and fearlessly.
>>>>>
> > > > > 1) Which system is *better*. The KP or the 4 Step ?
>>>>>
> > > > > 2) In case the latter, than should we *discard* the Traditional
> > > > > KP Method ?
>>>>>
> > > > > 3) Certain rules considered as 4 Step, are *already there* in
> > > > > the KP Traditional , albeit not in detailed manner, but
> > > > > references are thrown in here and there. So can
> > > > > we pick up those rules which can help us in KP
> > > > > traditional, or totally shift to the 4 Step ?
>>>>>
> > > > > 4) If the 4 step Theory is better, than how could the old
> > > > > ptactioners of Traditional KP, give so much *wonderful*
> > > > > *predictions,* as mentioned in the readers and the other
> > > > > books from the Disciples ?
>>>>>
> > > > > 5) Since Shri KSk was always for further research and
> > > > > improvisations, we as students are ready to change,
> > > > > apply and amalgamate . Which rules from the 4 Step
> > > > > can be picked up and *applied to the Traditional* without
> > > > > disturbing its Structure completely ?
>>>>>
> > > > > 6) What do you advise the new comers who enter KP.
> > > > > should they straight away move towards the 4 step or
> > > > > should they study both the KP and the 4 step and in
> > > > > that process *confuse* themselves ?
>>>>>
> > > > > 7) I am given to understand that for certain Charts the
> > > > > asnwers are not available unless one applies the
> > > > > 4 Step. In that case *what is the percentage* of such
> > > > > charts you would give, out of 100, where the Traditional
> > > > > KP does not seem to work ?
>>>>>
> > > > > As requested above, please answer the above
> > > > > honesty and fearlessly. We do not have to necessarily
> > > > > look good, but be *truthful* to ourselves and the
> > > > > student community.
>>>>>
> > > > > Please do not advise that they are " not different systems "
> > > > > or just an " improvisation " , because both cannot be applied together.
>>>>>
> > > > > regards/Bhaskar.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
 Quote
Dear Sirs,
//Becaz of his age limitation he could not do further (at that timethis group activity,
computers, net is in the initial stages) research on thisnew kp concept (sublord) at that
time (1970). //
Guests

SubLord was already taken by Shri KSK , but yes further research
could be limited due to age factors or time limitations as you rightly
pointed out.//I used to predict thru sublord signi cation also which used to come true
andmany of my clients would come back with good feed back. Then during that time Ido
not know I am using the 3rd/4th step i.e. sublord and its starlord theory inmy
predictions. Later on the same has come in a form of theory by Sri Sunil ji,
more useful in predictive astrology for the beginners to gain quick recognition in
this eld. //
So You too acept through above renderations that you were already using
a part of todays "4 Step Theory" in those years too. much before it came
to be known today as "4 Step".
This is what I am trying to say all the time. If this was used by You,
if this was used by Shri Sahasne ji, and maybe by many others
then who should be called as the "Originator" of this system ?
// During 1970s KSK ji has given the rst generation 286 Pcs so us now we
havedeveloped it to 5th generation Dual Core systems. That means the old system
isthresh hold for this superstructure. We should concetrate on signi cators ofABCDE
level (as said by Sri Dhanbalan) and should also see the 4 step theory,cuspal interlinks,
cusps starlords, cuspal interception, to give more accuratepredictions.//
Certain weightages have already been given to us by KSK too, unless
somebody writes that the books written by Shri KSk were not actually
written by him.
Predictive Stellar Astrology (3rd Reader) page 290
Details are given when the occupant is stronger than the owner of the
sign.
Details are given when the Occupant is weaker than the owner of the
sign.
(This is with reference to Exaltations, Debilitations, Vargottamsa etc.)
But if one searches his books, I am sure one will also nd the references
for weightage on other factors which we are presently into. (I am in
jaipur presently and my books are lying in Bombay, or would have given
the references).
// I could see this group has now launched into quizs and research activitiesinstead of
spending our valuable time on discussion of old theories which isaccurate / in
accurate.//
I agree that the group may nevertheless continue with Quizzes etc.
whatever keeps the members in good frame, but additionally side
by side we must have discussions on those facets og Original KP,
where KSK had given us some hints, clues , subtle mentions, but
could not give us detailed descriptions due to whatever reasons they
may be as discussed above earlier in this mail. // I request all the stalwarts of KP
Astrology should launch on new
areas where it requires further research to reach at ner predictions. //
I request the 4 Step propogators further, that if they think they have
understood and made some Theory which is by far a much better one in
terms of predictive outputs than KP, then please display this in terms of
predictive Outputs for the Stock Market Index, and if they can attain 75%
of win in their predictions for each day of the Market, then they can
certainly feel strengthened and in a better position to call this as
having some worth. I just ask them to please predict only whether
the Index will attain a "High" or "Low" for the next day of Market in advance,
and do not even ask them to give any gures or %age of High or Low.
This means for 22 days in a month, 22 Predictions of whether the
market will go High or Low on each day, and ,let 15 such predictions
come right, with logical inferences given with each prediction so
that we know that , no one is using Dowsing or Spirits or Tarot cards
or any other non-astrological forms of predictions for these.
This will also con rm to us and all, of the effectiveness of the 4 Step, and we
will begin anew with a renewed vigour and interest to learn this great theory'
and equip ourselves much better.
regards/Bhaskar.
, "PEDDA" <ovnmurthy wrote:>> Dear Sri Bhaskar & Sri Pandey Ji,> > I have gone thru
both the emails. In this connection I wish to inform you that Sri KSK ji out of his
experience from Vedic he came out with his concept which we are calling it as
Traditional KP. Guruji during his life time (for human being longevity is limitation one is
not eternal) he invented the sublord application from vimsothari concept it is also an
extension of Vedic and not a new subject. Becaz of his age limitation he could not do
further (at that time this group activity, computers, net is in the initial stages) research
on this new kp concept (sublord) at that time (1970). > > During 1980 I entered from
Vedic to Kp and continued the same becaz of its scienti c way of analysis. At that time I
used to see the sublord signi cation also to give a positive reply to the client when
starlord does not in any way connected to the relevant houses, as sublord is trump card
in this system. I used to see the signi cance of the sublord, also see the cuspal sublord,
or starlord of relevant cusp, if any of the three conditions are satis ed then I used
counsel the client that he/she could get the desired result. (Becaz it is our Vaksiddhi we
do regular prayers and then predict for the client) Normally we should not try to predict
negative things to the client unless it is unwarranted. In case of longevity we should be
more careful becaz Astrologers noramlly have good mercury and 5n9 houses for
astrology practice, then our Vakk sidhi should not be used for predicting negative things
to the detriment of Jatakudu. Jatakudu approaches u for mental support thru your
knowledge.> > I used to predict thru sublord signi cation also which used to come true
and many of my clients would come back with good feed back. Then during that time I
do not know I am using the 3rd/4th step i.e. sublord and its starlord theory in my
predictions.> > Later on the same has come in a form of theory by Sri Sunil ji, more
useful in predictive astrology for the beginners to gain quick recognition in this eld.
Now any discussion on this topic whether this method or that method, is draining our
rich and valuable hours which we can safely use in testing the theories with practical
charts which would create the con dence in us.> > During 1970s KSK ji has given the
rst generation 286 Pcs to us now we have developed it to 5th generation Dual Core
systems. That means the old system is thresh hold for this superstructure. We should
concetrate on signi cators of ABCDE level (as said by Sri Dhanbalan) and should also
see the 4 step theory, cuspal interlinks, cusps starlords, cuspal interception, to give more
accurate predictions.> > I could see this group has now launched into quizs and
research activities instead of spending our valuable time on discussion of old theories
which is accurate / in accurate.> > I request all the stalwarts of KP Astrology should
launch on new areas where it requires further research to reach at ner predictions.> >
O.V.N.Murthy, M.Com. FCS.I CWAI. PGDPA.> Company Secretary,> Nizam Sugars
Limited,> Hyderabad-500004A.P.> Ph.No. Off.23232212 / Res 040 27405975;
Mob.9441778427> www.saibhavishyavani.com > ovnmurthy > > > > > > , "Bhaskar"
bhaskar_jyotish@ wrote:> >> > Dear Learned Senior astrologers of the Group, I was
going through the> > Tutorials, and stumbled upon the 4 Step theory rules. Of Course I
was> > not unaware of these. My Queries to you which hope would be answered> >
honestly and with convictions and fearlessly. 1) Which system is> > better. The KP or the
4 Step ? 2) In case the latter, than should we> > discard the Traditional KP Method ? 3)
Certain rules considered as 4> > Step, are already there in the KP Traditional , albeit not
in detailed> > manner, but references are thrown in here and there. So can we pick up> >
those rules which can help us in KP traditional, or totally shift to> > the 4 Step ? 4) If the
4 step Theory is better, than how could the> > old ptactioners of Traditional KP, give so
much wonderful predictions,> > as mentioned in the readers and the other books from
the Disciples ? > > 5) Since Shri KSk was always for further research and improvisations,
we> > as students are ready to change, apply and amalgamate . Which rules from> > the
4 Step can be picked up and applied to the Traditional without > > disturbing its
Structure completely ? 6) What do you advise the new> > comers who enter KP. should
they straight away move towards the 4 step> > or should they study both the KP and the
4 step and in that process> > confuse themselves ? 7) I am given to understand that for
certain> > Charts the asnwers are not available unless one applies the 4 Step. In> > that
case what is the percentage of such charts you would give, out of> > 100, where the
Traditional KP does not seem to work ? As requested> > above, please answer the above
honesty and fearlessly. We do not have to> > necessarily look good, but be truthful to
ourselves and the student> > community. Please do not advise that they are "not
different systems"> > or just an "improvisation", because both cannot be applied
together. > > regards/Bhaskar.> >>
 Quote
Dear Mr. Bhaskar,
If i sum up your mail i understand that,You need more clarity on 4 step rules. If this is
Guests right i would suggest that you write your speci c requirements / doubts to Sunilji /
Subhashji . My experience is that they reply 100%.
Regards
Amit Soman
Bhaskar <bhaskar_jyotish Sent: Tue, December 22, 2009 2:33:14 AM Re: Which system
is better. The KP or the 4 Step ?

such.
Gondhalekarji has admitted that Guruji has done the
editing, then I do not understand wheres the problem if Guruji Hasbe has himself done
the editing ? Why must we point ngers at anyone ? And why were you silent at that mail
? At least for Rs. 300/- the students have got a millions Rupees worth of knowledge
from his books containing hundreds of examples and simple style of explaining the
rules. The photo of his Guruji has been put on his books, due respect has been given, his
Gurujis reference is made in almost every second Chapter. Do You see this in Shri
Suniljis book which I purchased from him for Rs.500- containg 40 pages of large Fonts
(Xerox Pages) written in a hurried manner, and absolute confused depictions of the rules
? No reference to his Guruji, no respect , no acknowledgement, just nothing.
without doubt.
of presentations) .
Thanks and Regards,
bhaskar.
@gro ups.com, Subhash Ektare <subhash_ektare@ ...> wrote:>> Dear Bhaskar ji,> >
When you say that most of the rules (of 4 step) have already been used by Late Shri.
Shahasane you must have presumably understood them. Therefore it is hard to believe
that an astrologer of your caliber still nd it confusing. Your allegation that these rules
are already used by Mr. Shahasane ji seems to be baseless if you say you did not
understand the rules at all. > > It was ruled by moderator Mr. Punit Pandey ji that KP is
what is described in KP Readers. Any new theories though derived from KP....such as
Late Dr. Kar's Theory, K. Baskaran's theory etc are named differently to identify
because you are not comfortable with naming it this way? It is your decision not to
comment on 4 step any more, however any
> > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __> Bhaskar bhaskar_jyotish@ ...> @gro
ups.com> Mon, December 21, 2009 2:56:43 AM> Re: Which system is better. The KP or
the 4 Step ?> > > Dear Subhash ji,> // Then I fail to understand why the fact that"he used
apparent presently Titled, 4 Step rules, very effectively in KP without making it
confusing" may not be of common knowledge? //> What is today known as 4 Step, most
of the rules have already been used by Shri Sahasne in his books written many years
ago, is what may not be
application of them is
again another junction. When to apply which rules is again confusing. This is my
personal opinion as I mentioned before.> About 4 Step I will refrain from commenting
further.> kind regards,> Bhaskar.> > > > > @gro ups.com, Subhash Ektare
<subhash_ektare@ ...> wrote:> >> > Dear Members,> > > > As far as my knowledge goes,
4 step theory is based on KP principles only adding and /or improvising some rules.
Further the method of working out signi cation of each planet is entirely different. To
differentiate this aspect from KP (and not get confused as KP) it was suitably titled as "4
Step Theory". Therefore to understand 4 step, knowledge of KP as given in KSK's
Readers is necessary. > > > > Secondly, in my personal opinion, I do not nd 4 step
theory confusing. There are very few rules which can be understood
even by a beginner. In fact I am very comfortable with 4 step theory.> > > > Late Mr.
Suresh shahasane has written many books on KP in Marathi and these were translated
in Hindi and Gujrathi, I suppose. These books must be widely used by many KP
astrologers. Then I fail to understand why the fact that"he used apparent presently
members in this forum who have read his books, can throw some light on this. > > > >
Regards,> > Subhash Ekatre> > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __>
> Bhaskar bhaskar_jyotish@ ...> > @gro
ups.com> > Sun, December 20, 2009 6:26:09 AM> > Re: Which system is better. The KP
or the 4 Step ?> > > > > > Dear Punit ji,> > > > Thanks for spending time on my mail and
giving straight honest replies> > to the queries.> > > > I would like to mention now that
my personal opinion is that the 4 Step> > Theory may be too confusing at times with too
many heavy weighted> > rules which may not all be understood properly by a student, in
complete. > > > > Another fact which may not be of common knowledge,> > is that Late
Shri Suresh Sahasneji in his books (which were> > written many years ago) has used the
apparent presently Titled,> > 4 Step rules, very effectively in KP without making it
confusing. > > This may have now later come to be known as 4 Step
with further > > rules added to it , is another matter, but was actually KP in detail> > and
improvised. > > > > I would recommend students to learn Traditional KP through the
usual > > methods and also read the above books for grasping of further rules, > > rather
than going for 4 Step straightaway which I am sorry, personally I > > am not comfortable
with.> > > > (Let me also clear this, that I am in no way connected with selling of> >
above books, nor have any particular interest, except that these books> > are really one
of the nest, most simple to understand, and contains> > all KP And improvised rules
minus the confusions, so that one can> > understand KP very easily rather than
spending 10 years to understand> > Readers or 4 Step).> > > > warm regards,> >
Bhaskar.> >
> > > > > > > > @gro ups.com, Punit Pandey punitp@ wrote:> > >> > > Dear Bhaskar ji,> > >
> > > We have seen some heated debate in this forum when we try to do comparison.> >
> This is a KP forum, so naturally the answer will be biased in favor of KP.> > > Even then,
let me take some of the questions and answer them unbiased and> > > best of my
capabilities.> > > > > > > > > *1) Which system is better. The KP or the 4 Step ?*> > >
Comparison of any two systems is good. All systems do have pros and cons.> > > With
the time and research we will have to highlight those points. Also> > > 4-step is a new
system so it will take some time in terms of awareness> > > before even we start
comparing it. In my opinion, it is
too early.> > > > > > *2) In case the latter, than should we discard the Traditional*> > >
*KP Method ?*> > > As per my earlier answer, it is too early to compare the systems.
Sunil ji> > > himself participate in some of the quizzes etc. and any signi cant> > >
advantages of 4-step over KP has yet to be found. In my opinion, 4-step is> > > still a
system under development and highly dependent upon KP. I have seen> > > 4-step
astrologers mixing KP extensively.> > > > > > *3) Certain rules considered as 4 Step, are
already there in*> > > *the KP Traditional , albeit not in detailed manner, but*> > >
*references are thrown in here and there. So can*> > > *we pick up those rules which can
help us in KP *> > > *traditional, or totally shift to the 4 Step ?*> > >
There are KP astrologer already using those methods. Some of the methods are> > >
already part of modern KP. From 1966 edition to 1971 edition, we have seen> > > shift
towards using sub-lord (both planetary and cuspal) more often. The> > > shift is
continuing and the use of sub has increased over a period of time> > > in KP.> > > > > >
*4) If the 4 step Theory is better, than how could the old*> > > *ptactioners of Traditional
KP, give so much wonderful*> > > *predictions, as mentioned in the readers and the
other*> > > *books from the Disciples ?*> > > This is a tough question. Neither KP
practitioners, nor 4-step or other> > > practitioners are able to achieve the level we found
in readers. More> > > research and study is needed.> > > > > > *5) Since Shri KSk was
always
for further research and*> > > *improvisations, we as students are ready to change,*> > >
*apply and amalgamate . Which rules from the 4 Step *> > > *can be picked up and
applied to the Traditional without *> > > *disturbing its Structure completely ?*> > >
Positional strength and role of sub's star is already in use in KP. These> > > are also used
extensively in 4-step theory. If I remember Sunil> > > ji correctly, most of them are
borrowed from KP only.> > > > > > *6) What do you advise the new comers who enter
KP.*> > > *should they straight away move towards the 4 step or*> > > *should they study
both the KP and the 4 step and in*> > > *that process confuse themselves ?*> > > As the
basics of 4-step is in KP, I recommend going through KP rst. Other> > > members can
have different opinion.> > > > > > *7) I am given to understand that for certain Charts
the*> > > *asnwers are not available unless one applies the *> > > *4 Step. In that case
what is the percentage of such *> > > *charts you would give, out of 100, where the
Traditional*> > > *KP does not seem to work ?*> > > Truly speaking I am not in
agreement with this saying.> > > > > > Most of the time it happens because we miss
ner KP principles. The number> > > of such charts are not very high. Though we must
remember that whichever> > > system we use, there is some selections need to be made
by astrologer, and> > > there comes the difference. For example, in the quizzes we have
seen that no> > > two KP or 4-step astrologers came up with the same answer.> > > > > >
Thanks & Regards,> > > > > > Punit Pandey> > > > > > > > > On Sat, Dec 19, 2009 at 11:26
PM, Bhaskar bhaskar_jyotish@ ...wrote:> > > > > > >> > > >> > > > *Dear Learned Senior
astrologers of the Group,*> > > > **> > > > I was going through the Tutorials, and
stumbled upon the> > > > 4 Step theory rules. Of Course I was not unaware of> > > >
these.> > > >> > > > My Queries to you which hope would be answered honestly> > > >
and with convictions and fearlessly.> > > >> > > > 1) Which system is *better*. The KP or
the 4 Step ?> > > >> > > > 2) In case the latter, than should we *discard* the Traditional> >
> > KP Method ?> > >
>> > > > 3) Certain rules considered as 4 Step, are *already there* in> > > > the KP
Traditional , albeit not in detailed manner, but> > > > references are thrown in here and
there. So can> > > > we pick up those rules which can help us in KP> > > > traditional, or
totally shift to the 4 Step ?> > > >> > > > 4) If the 4 step Theory is better, than how could
the old> > > > ptactioners of Traditional KP, give so much *wonderful*> > > >
*predictions, * as mentioned in the readers and the other> > > > books from the Disciples
?> > > >> > > > 5) Since Shri KSk was always for further research and> > > >
improvisations, we as students are ready to change,> > > > apply and amalgamate .
Which rules from the 4 Step> > > >
can be picked up and *applied to the Traditional* without> > > > disturbing its Structure
completely ?> > > >> > > > 6) What do you advise the new comers who enter KP.> > > >
should they straight away move towards the 4 step or> > > > should they study both the
KP and the 4 step and in> > > > that process *confuse* themselves ?> > > >> > > > 7) I
am given to understand that for certain Charts the> > > > asnwers are not available
fearlessly. We do not have to
necessarily> > > > look good, but be *truthful* to ourselves and the> > > > student
community.> > > >> > > > Please do not advise that they are "not different systems"> > >
> or just an "improvisation" , because both cannot be applied together.> > > >> > > >
regards/Bhaskar.> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> >>
 Quote
Dear Friends,
1. KP is the 'Krishnamurti Padhdhati' of Guruji KSK. There is only KP, no
traditional KP. This is not the extension of the Traditional but applying sub in
Guests
the sub lord theory discarding the numerious, complicated and inconsistent
Traditional rules. Pl don't make confusion for KP learners in this KP group.
2. Guruji KSK has used the star lord of the sub lord in only and only
one place of the demonstration example crowing that nding the sub lord theory
makes him crowned with success in the KP Reader III, V & VI. This is to know
what the sub lord is indicationg, as K.M. Subramaniam has done in the Sublord
Speaks 1,2 & 3, i.e. sub is a decider, not a signi cator like in the Four Step
Theory.
3. The sub-sub theory by Dr. Kar, cuspal interlinks through sub or sub-subs,
Four Step are based on KP, not extension of KP but they are different from KP,
as they can give the different results from KP.
4. Depending on preference, one can use any of them mentioning their names but
pl don't mix up them with KP, and pl don't make confusion for KP learners in
this KP group in learning KP.
5. Any emperical research would be helpful in judging and learning any system
other than just talking and talking to do research without doing one self
anything in this regard.
6. If any more e cient rule is found, pl let us know with evidence of pudding
to eat and it would be grateful.
7. For instance, has someone done any empirical research similar to the part
" XI. OBSERVATION " of the following study note? Pl let us know the results.
4-Step/
A NOTE ON FOUR STEP THEORY.doc
A STUDY NOTE ON FOUR STEP THEORY
Thanks and regards,
TW
, " PEDDA " <ovnmurthy wrote:
>
> Dear Sri Bhaskar & Sri Pandey Ji,
>
> I have gone thru both the emails. In this connection I wish to inform you that
Sri KSK ji out of his experience from Vedic he came out with his concept which
we are calling it as Traditional KP. Guruji during his life time (for human
being longevity is limitation one is not eternal) he invented the sublord
application from vimsothari concept it is also an extension of Vedic and not a
new subject. Becaz of his age limitation he could not do further (at that time
this group activity, computers, net is in the initial stages) research on this
new kp concept (sublord) at that time (1970).
>
> During 1980 I entered from Vedic to Kp and continued the same becaz of its
scienti c way of analysis. At that time I used to see the sublord signi cation
also to give a positive reply to the client when starlord does not in any way
connected to the relevant houses, as sublord is trump card in this system. I
used to see the signi cance of the sublord, also see the cuspal sublord, or
starlord of relevant cusp, if any of the three conditions are satis ed then I
used counsel the client that he/she could get the desired result. (Becaz it is
our Vaksiddhi we do regular prayers and then predict for the client) Normally
we should not try to predict negative things to the client unless it is
unwarranted. In case of longevity we should be more careful becaz Astrologers
noramlly have good mercury and 5n9 houses for astrology practice, then our Vakk
sidhi should not be used for predicting negative things to the detriment of
Jatakudu. Jatakudu approaches u for mental support thru your knowledge.
>
> I used to predict thru sublord signi cation also which used to come true
and many of my clients would come back with good feed back. Then during that
time I do not know I am using the 3rd/4th step i.e. sublord and its starlord
theory in my predictions.
>
> Later on the same has come in a form of theory by Sri Sunil ji, more useful in
predictive astrology for the beginners to gain quick recognition in this eld.
Now any discussion on this topic whether this method or that method, is draining
our rich and valuable hours which we can safely use in testing the theories with
practical charts which would create the con dence in us.
>
> During 1970s KSK ji has given the rst generation 286 Pcs to us now we have
developed it to 5th generation Dual Core systems. That means the old system is
thresh hold for this superstructure. We should concetrate on signi cators of
ABCDE level (as said by Sri Dhanbalan) and should also see the 4 step theory,
cuspal interlinks, cusps starlords, cuspal interception, to give more accurate
predictions.
>
> I could see this group has now launched into quizs and research activities
instead of spending our valuable time on discussion of old theories which is
accurate / in accurate.
>
> I request all the stalwarts of KP Astrology should launch on new areas where
it requires further research to reach at ner predictions.
>
> O.V.N.Murthy, M.Com. FCS.I CWAI. PGDPA.
> Company Secretary,
> Nizam Sugars Limited,
> Hyderabad-500004A.P.
> Ph.No. Off.23232212 / Res 040 27405975; Mob.9441778427
> www.saibhavishyavani.com
> ovnmurthy
>
>
>
>
>
> , " Bhaskar " <bhaskar_jyotish@> wrote:
>>
> > Dear Learned Senior astrologers of the Group, I was going through the
> > Tutorials, and stumbled upon the 4 Step theory rules. Of Course I was
> > not unaware of these. My Queries to you which hope would be answered
> > honestly and with convictions and fearlessly. 1) Which system is
> > better. The KP or the 4 Step ? 2) In case the latter, than should we
> > discard the Traditional KP Method ? 3) Certain rules considered as 4
> > Step, are already there in the KP Traditional , albeit not in detailed
> > manner, but references are thrown in here and there. So can we pick up
> > those rules which can help us in KP traditional, or totally shift to
> > the 4 Step ? 4) If the 4 step Theory is better, than how could the
> > old ptactioners of Traditional KP, give so much wonderful predictions,
> > as mentioned in the readers and the other books from the Disciples ?
> > 5) Since Shri KSk was always for further research and improvisations, we
> > as students are ready to change, apply and amalgamate . Which rules from
> > the 4 Step can be picked up and applied to the Traditional without
> > disturbing its Structure completely ? 6) What do you advise the new
> > comers who enter KP. should they straight away move towards the 4 step
> > or should they study both the KP and the 4 step and in that process
> > confuse themselves ? 7) I am given to understand that for certain
> > Charts the asnwers are not available unless one applies the 4 Step. In
> > that case what is the percentage of such charts you would give, out of
> > 100, where the Traditional KP does not seem to work ? As requested
> > above, please answer the above honesty and fearlessly. We do not have to
> > necessarily look good, but be truthful to ourselves and the student
> > community. Please do not advise that they are " not different systems "
> > or just an " improvisation " , because both cannot be applied together.
> > regards/Bhaskar.
>>
>
 Quote
Dear Bhaskar,
That is exactly where the sub-sub in which it is posited comes into play...
With best wishes,

Guests
Yogesh Lajmi.
Bhaskar <bhaskar_jyotish Sent: Tue, 22 December, 2009 1:17:18 PM Re: Which system is
better. The KP or the 4 Step ?
Dear Shrikant ji,Right.I had asked a similiar question to the members here 2 years ago,
aboutwhat must Rahu consider to signify (My own horoscope) if Rahu is in itsown sub.
they did not have any answer for this. Then I explained them,what Shri Sahasneji has
taught me, and it lls in correctly afterhaving undergone 2 years of Rahu Mahadasha.
(We have to move to the subsub Lord now in such cases, and in my case it was Budh,
and since noplanet in star of Budh, Shri Sahasneji explained me personally that rahuwill
now become a rst class signi cator for Budh who is lord of 2ndand 11th in My chart -
Leo ascendant, and that rahu mahadasha will bethe best for you in terms of material )I
also asked them what would happen if two planets are conjunct in samedegrees and in
same Sub. and if they are running Mahadashas one afterthe other, then what will be the
difference in their Mahadasha
results,since the Sub is the same for both mahadasha Lords. Again no answer
wasforthcoming from the learned astrologers here. Then I cited a referencefrom Shri
Chandrakant bhatts book where it is clearly mentioned that ifRaashi Lord, StarLord,
Sublord is same for the two planets, then theplanet which has a subsublord signifying
the bene c houses will happento be a better mahadasha.This brought some
disaapointment to me when I could nd no Learnedmembers here could reply to my two
queries above and an ordinary studentand astrologer like me could give the answer due
to the grace of hisGuru. I decided to spend less time on the Forum, and concentrate
more onwhat could be learnt further.Sorry, if anyone nds any thing irrelevant
here.regards,Bhaskar.@gro ups.com, j shrikant <shrikantjin@ ...> wrote:>> dear
subhashji,> Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Late shri. suresh
shahasane was abrilliant kp astrologer.his contribution in training kp> students was
great.He conducted for 3 years kp astrology conferancesfor whichÃ‚ I was witness.> IÃ‚
was a participant .He encouraged new students in prediction.hisastrology conferances
were> directly explanation of 60 horoscopes,in 3days.he advocated planetsigni cation a
simple way> to analyse horoscope.he was a critic of 4 step theory.In his
bookjyotishveda in marathi ,he criticised> this method illustrating examples in support
of it.> Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ he said if planet is in its ownstar and also sub how you are going
to write your four steps?> According his
practical experiences when planet is in its own starÃ‚and in its own sub we will> get
same steps repetedly hence take the signi cance of subsub.> Ã‚ GOOD LUCK> Ã‚
shrikantjin@ ...>>>> ____________ _________ _________ __> Yogesh Lajmi yogeshlajmi@ ...>
@gro ups.com> Cc: Subhash Ektare subhash Mon, 21 December, 2009 3:05:03 PM> Re:
Re: Which system is better. The KP or the 4Step ?>> Ã‚> Dear Subhash,> Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚
Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ I completely agree with you...> Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚
Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Yogesh Lajmi>>>>> ____________ _________ _________
__> Subhash Ektare <subhash_ektare@ >> @gro ups.com> Mon, 21 December, 2009
5:02:39 AM> Re: Re: Which system is better. The KP or the 4Step ?>> Ã‚> Dear
Members,>> As far as my knowledge goes, 4 step theory is based on KP principlesonly
adding and /or improvising some rules. Further the method ofworking out signi cation
of each planet is entirely different. Todifferentiate this aspect from KP (and not get
confused as KP) it wassuitably titled as "4 Step Theory". Therefore to understand 4
step,knowledge of KP as given in KSK's Readers is necessary.Ã‚>> Secondly, in my
personal opinion, I do not nd 4 step theoryconfusing. There are very few rules which
can be understood even by abeginner. In fact I am very comfortable with 4 step
theory.>> Late Mr.. Suresh
shahasane has written many books on KP in Marathi andthese were translated in Hindi
and Gujrathi, I suppose. These books mustbe widely used by many KP astrologers. Then
I fail to understand why thefact that"he usedÃ‚ apparentÃ‚ presently Titled,Ã‚ 4 Step
rules,very effectively in KP without making it confusing" may not be of
commonknowledge? But if this is a fact, then credit must go to him. Franklyspeaking
since I have not read his books I cannot comment on this. Butthere must be many
members in this forum who have read his books, canthrow some light on this.Ã‚>>
Regards,> Subhash Ekatre>>>>>>> ____________ _________ _________ __> Bhaskar
<bhaskar_jyotish@ .co. in>> @gro ups.com> Sun, December 20, 2009 6:26:09 AM> Re:
Which system is better. The KP or the 4
Step?>> Ã‚> Dear Punit ji,> Ã‚> Thanks for spending time on my mail and giving straight
honest replies> to the queries.> Ã‚> I would like to mention now that my personal opinion
isÃ‚ that the 4Step> Theory may be too confusing at times with too many heavy
weighted> rules which may not all be understood properly by a student, incomplete.> Ã‚>
Another fact which may not be of common knowledge,> is that Late Shri Suresh
Sahasneji in his books (which were> written many years ago) has used the apparentÃ‚
presently Titled,> 4 Step rules, very effectively in KP without making it confusing.Ã‚> This
may have now later come to be known as 4 Step with further> rules added to it , is
another matter,Ã‚ but was actually KP indetail> and improvised.Ã‚> Ã‚> IÃ‚ would
recommend students to learn Traditional KP
through theusual> methods and also read the above books for grasping of further
rules,> rather than going for 4 Step straightaway which I am sorry, personallyI> am not
comfortable with.> Ã‚> (Let me also clear this, that I am in no way connected
withÃ‚selling of> above books, nor have any particular interest, except that these books>
are really one of the nest, most simple to understand, and contains> all KP And
improvised rules minus the confusions, so that one can> understand KP very easily
rather than spending 10 years to understand> Readers or 4 Step).> Ã‚> warm regards,>
Bhaskar.> Ã‚> Ã‚> Ã‚ Ã‚> Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚> @gro ups.com, Punit Pandey punitp@ wrote:> >> >
Dear Bhaskar ji,> >> > We have seen some heated debate in this forum when we try to
docomparison.> > This is a KP forum, so naturally the answer will be biased in favorof
KP.> > Even then, let me take some of the questions and answer themunbiased and> >
best of my capabilities. .> >> >> > *1) Which system is better. The KP or the 4 Step ?*> >
Comparison of any two systems is good. All systems do have pros andcons.> > With the
time and research we will have to highlight those points.Also> > 4-step is a new system
so it will take some time in terms ofawareness> > before even we start comparing it. In
my opinion, it is too early.> >> > *2) In case the latter, than should we discard the
Traditional*> > *KP Method ?*> > As per my earlier answer, it is too early to compare the
systems.Sunil ji> > himself participate in some of the quizzes etc. and any
signi cant> > advantages of 4-step over KP has yet to be found. In my opinion,4-step is>
> still a system under development and highly dependent upon KP. Ihave seen> > 4-step
astrologers mixing KP extensively.> >> > *3) Certain rules considered as 4 Step, are
already there in*> > *the KP Traditional , albeit not in detailed manner, but*> >
*references are thrown in here and there. So can*> > *we pick up those rules which can
help us in KP *> > *traditional, or totally shift to the 4 Step ?*> > There are KP astrologer
already using those methods. Some of themethods are> > already part of modern KP.
From 1966 edition to 1971 edition, wehave seen> > shift towards using sub-lord (both
planetary and cuspal) more often.The> > shift is continuing and the use of sub has
increased over a periodof time>
> in KP.> >> > *4) If the 4 step Theory is better, than how could the old*> > *ptactioners of
Traditional KP, give so much wonderful*> > *predictions, as mentioned in the readers
and the other*> > *books from the Disciples ?*> > This is a tough question. Neither KP
practitioners, nor 4-step orother> > practitioners are able to achieve the level we found in
readers.More> > research and study is needed.> >> > *5) Since Shri KSk was always for
further research and*> > *improvisations, we as students are ready to change,*> > *apply
and amalgamate . Which rules from the 4 Step *> > *can be picked up and applied to the
role of sub's star is already in use in KP.These> > are also used extensively
in 4-step theory. If I remember Sunil> > ji correctly, most of them are borrowed from KP
only.> >> > *6) What do you advise the new comers who enter KP.*> > *should they
straight away move towards the 4 step or*> > *should they study both the KP and the 4
step and in*> > *that process confuse themselves ?*> > As the basics of 4-step is in KP, I
recommend going through KP rst. Other> > members can have different opinion.> >> >
*7) I am given to understand that for certain Charts the*> > *asnwers are not available
unless one applies the *> > *4 Step. In that case what is the percentage of such *> >
*charts you would give, out of 100, where the Traditional*> > *KP does not seem to work
?*> > Truly speaking I am not in agreement with this saying.> >> > Most of the time it
happens
because we miss ner KP principles. Thenumber> > of such charts are not very high.
Though we must remember thatwhichever> > system we use, there is some selections
need to be made byastrologer, and> > there comes the difference. For example, in the
quizzes we have seenthat no> > two KP or 4-step astrologers came up with the same
answer.> >> > Thanks & Regards,> >> > Punit Pandey> >> >> > On Sat, Dec 19, 2009 at
11:26 PM, Bhaskar bhaskar_jyotish@ ...wrote:> >> > >> > >> > > *Dear Learned Senior
astrologers of the Group,*> > > **> > > I was going through the Tutorials, and stumbled
upon the> > > 4 Step theory rules. Of Course I was not unaware of> > > these.> > >> > >
My Queries to you which hope would
be answered honestly> > > and with convictions and fearlessly..> > >> > > 1) Which
system is *better*. The KP or the 4 Step ?> > >> > > 2) In case the latter, than should we
*discard* the Traditional> > > KP Method ?> > >> > > 3) Certain rules considered as 4
Step, are *already there* in> > > the KP Traditional , albeit not in detailed manner, but> > >
references are thrown in here and there. So can> > > we pick up those rules which can
help us in KP> > > traditional, or totally shift to the 4 Step ?> > >> > > 4) If the 4 step
Theory is better, than how could the old> > > ptactioners of Traditional KP, give so much
*wonderful*> > > *predictions, * as mentioned in the readers and the other> > > books
from the Disciples ?> >
>> > > 5) Since Shri KSk was always for further research and> > > improvisations, we as
students are ready to change,> > > apply and amalgamate . Which rules from the 4 Step>
> > can be picked up and *applied to the Traditional* without> > > disturbing its Structure
completely ?> > >> > > 6) What do you advise the new comers who enter KP.> > > should
they straight away move towards the 4 step or> > > should they study both the KP and
the 4 step and in> > > that process *confuse* themselves ?> > >> > > 7) I am given to
understand that for certain Charts the> > > asnwers are not available unless one applies
the> > > 4 Step. In that case *what is the percentage* of such> > > charts you would give,
out of 100, where the Traditional> > > KP does not
seem to work ?> > >> > > As requested above, please answer the above> > > honesty and
fearlessly. We do not have to necessarily> > > look good, but be *truthful* to ourselves
and the> > > student community.> > >> > > Please do not advise that they are "not
different systems"> > > or just an "improvisation" , because both cannot be
appliedtogether.> > >> > > regards/Bhaskar.> > >> > >> > >> > >> >>>> ____________
_________ _________ __> See what's on at the movies in your area. Find out now.>>>> The
INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Homepage.http://in.. com/>
 Quote
This rule of pointing out which
of the two planets will be favorable on the basic of sub-sub lord is found in
Bhatt's Nakshatra Chintamani, page 42 as well as Astrosecrets and KP Part II,

Guests
page 179. With due respect to Shri Bhatt as the best narrator of KP, this
rule is still open to empirical research. For example, for Example chart-1 in
this Bhatt's book, Male, July 7, 1912, 20:42 PM IST, 23N02, 72E35, NKPA
22:32:44, Asc Cap 12:28:12, Sun Gem 22:32:38, Ven Gem 22:57:58 and both planets
in the same star of Jup and same sub of Sat, it is not clear whether Ven Dasa
giving rst job, marriage, 3 children, one time regular promotion is
unfavorable for being in the sub-sub of Sun(6,8) and Sun Dasa giving one more
child, one more ordinary promotion and father's death is favorable for being in
the sub-sub of Ven(6,5,10). For Christina Onassis's AA chart, Dec 11, 1950,
20:00 PM, New York, NY, 40N43,74W00, NKPA 23:04:55, Asc Can 12:45:50, Moo Cap
03:32:38, Mar 04:19:07 and both planets in the same star of Sun, same sub Sat,
it is not found the Dasa lord Mar to be more favorable by being in the sub-sub
of Moo(6,1) than Dasa lord Moo in the sub-sub of Mer(6,4,12).as her
happy family life in the Moo Dasa was destroyed due to father's second
marriage, her own marriage to stay away from father and divorce in the Mars
Dasa.
/message/15697
Shri Bhatt has not taken into consideration of the results
of 'Sub Sub' lord in the example charts of his books.
/message/15783
1. That sub-sub one page had been discussed in this forum some time
ago and it's only there just written and no where practically applied in
other places of his books. In addition, that sub-sub theory doesn't work
for all given life events of the example chart. That is why I used the
word "without the signi cant deviation from KP"./message/21948--- In , "Bhaskar"

<bhaskar_jyotish wrote:>> > Dear Shrikant ji,> > Right.> > I had asked a similiar question
to the members here 2 years ago, about> what must Rahu consider to signify (My own
horoscope) if Rahu is in its> own sub. they did not have any answer for this. Then I
explained them,> what Shri Sahasneji has taught me, and it lls in correctly after> having
undergone 2 years of Rahu Mahadasha. (We have to move to the sub> sub Lord now in
such cases, and in my case it was Budh, and since no> planet in star of Budh, Shri
Sahasneji explained me personally that rahu> will now become a rst class signi cator
for Budh who is lord of 2nd> and 11th in My chart - Leo ascendant, and that rahu
mahadasha will be> the best for you in terms of material )> > I also asked them what
would happen if two planets are conjunct in same> degrees and in same Sub. and if they
are running Mahadashas one after> the other, then what will be the difference in their
Mahadasha results,> since the Sub is the same for both mahadasha Lords. Again no
answer was> forthcoming from the learned astrologers here. Then I cited a reference>
from Shri Chandrakant bhatts book where it is clearly mentioned that if> Raashi Lord,
StarLord, Sublord is same for the two planets, then the> planet which has a subsublord
signifying the bene c houses will happen> to be a better mahadasha.> > This brought
some disaapointment to me when I could nd no Learned> members here could reply to
my two queries above and an ordinary student> and astrologer like me could give the
answer due to the grace of his> Guru. I decided to spend less time on the Forum, and
concentrate more on> what could be learnt further.> > Sorry, if anyone nds any thing
irrelevant here.> > regards,> > Bhaskar.> > > > > , j shrikant shrikantjin@ wrote:> >> > dear
subhashji,> > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â> Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Late shri. suresh shahasane
was a> brilliant kp astrologer.his contribution in training kp> > students was great.He
conducted for 3 years kp astrology conferances> for whichÂ I was witness.> > IÂ was a
participant .He encouraged new students in prediction.his> astrology conferances were>
> directly explanation of 60 horoscopes,in 3days.he advocated planet> signi cation a
simple way> > to analyse horoscope.he was a critic of 4 step theory.In his book>
jyotishveda in marathi ,he criticised> > this method illustrating examples in support of
it.> > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â he said if planet is in its own> star and also sub how you are going to
write your four steps?> > According his practical experiences when planet is in its own
starÂ> and in its own sub we will> > get same steps repetedly hence take the
signi cance of subsub.> > Â GOOD LUCK> > Â shrikantjin@> >> >> >> >
________________________________> > Yogesh Lajmi yogeshlajmi@> > > > Cc: Subhash
Ektare subhash@> > Mon, 21 December, 2009 3:05:03 PM> > Re: Re: Which system is
better. The KP or the 4> Step ?> >> > Â> > Dear Subhash,> > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â
Â> Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â I completely agree with you...> > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â> Â Â Â
Â Â Â Â Yogesh Lajmi> >> >> >> >> > ________________________________> > Subhash
Ektare <subhash_ektare@ >> > @gro ups.com> > Mon, 21 December, 2009 5:02:39 AM>
> Re: Re: Which system is better. The KP or the 4> Step ?> >> > Â> > Dear Members,> >>
> As far as my knowledge goes, 4 step theory is based on KP principles> only adding
and /or improvising some rules. Further the method of> working out signi cation of
each planet is entirely different. To> differentiate this aspect from KP (and not get
confused as KP) it was> suitably titled as "4 Step Theory". Therefore to understand 4
step,> knowledge of KP as given in KSK's Readers is necessary.Â> >> > Secondly, in my
personal opinion, I do not nd 4 step theory> confusing. There are very few rules which
can be understood even by a> beginner. In fact I am very comfortable with 4 step
theory.> >> > Late Mr.. Suresh shahasane has written many books on KP in Marathi and>
these were translated in Hindi and Gujrathi, I suppose. These books must> be widely
used by many KP astrologers. Then I fail to understand why the> fact that"he usedÂ
apparentÂ presently Titled,Â 4 Step rules,> very effectively in KP without making it
confusing" may not be of common> knowledge? But if this is a fact, then credit must go
to him. Frankly> speaking since I have not read his books I cannot comment on this.
But> there must be many members in this forum who have read his books, can> throw
some light on this.Â> >> > Regards,> > Subhash Ekatre> >> >> >> >> >> >> >
________________________________> > Bhaskar <bhaskar_jyotish@ .co. in>> > @gro
or the 4 Step> ?> >> > Â> > Dear Punit ji,> > Â> > Thanks for spending time on my mail
and giving straight honest replies> > to the queries.> > Â> > I would like to mention now
that my personal opinion isÂ that the 4> Step> > Theory may be too confusing at times
with too many heavy weighted> > rules which may not all be understood properly by a
student, in> complete.> > Â> > Another fact which may not be of common knowledge,> >
is that Late Shri Suresh Sahasneji in his books (which were> > written many years ago)
has used the apparentÂ presently Titled,> > 4 Step rules, very effectively in KP without
making it confusing.Â> > This may have now later come to be known as 4 Step with
further> > rules added to it , is another matter,Â but was actually KP in> detail> > and
improvised.Â> > Â> > IÂ would recommend students to learn Traditional KP through the>
usual> > methods and also read the above books for grasping of further rules,> > rather
than going for 4 Step straightaway which I am sorry, personally> I> > am not comfortable
with.> > Â> > (Let me also clear this, that I am in no way connected withÂ> selling of> >
spending 10 years to understand> > Readers or 4 Step).> > Â> > warm regards,> >
Bhaskar.> > Â> > Â> > Â Â> > Â Â Â Â Â> > @gro ups.com, Punit Pandey punitp@ wrote:>
> >> > > Dear Bhaskar ji,> > >> > > We have seen some heated debate in this forum when
we try to do> comparison.> > > This is a KP forum, so naturally the answer will be biased
in favor> of KP.> > > Even then, let me take some of the questions and answer them>
unbiased and> > > best of my capabilities. .> > >> > >> > > *1) Which system is better.
The KP or the 4 Step ?*> > > Comparison of any two systems is good. All systems do
have pros and> cons.> > > With the time and research we will have to highlight those
points.> Also> > > 4-step is a new system so it will take some time in terms of>
awareness> > > before even we start comparing it. In my opinion, it is too early.> > >> > >
*2) In case the latter, than should we discard the Traditional*> > > *KP Method ?*> > > As
per my earlier answer, it is too early to compare the systems.> Sunil ji> > > himself
participate in some of the quizzes etc. and any signi cant> > > advantages of 4-step
over KP has yet to be found. In my opinion,> 4-step is> > > still a system under
development and highly dependent upon KP. I> have seen> > > 4-step astrologers mixing
KP extensively.> > >> > > *3) Certain rules considered as 4 Step, are already there in*> > >
*the KP Traditional , albeit not in detailed manner, but*> > > *references are thrown in
here and there. So can*> > > *we pick up those rules which can help us in KP *> > >
*traditional, or totally shift to the 4 Step ?*> > > There are KP astrologer already using
those methods. Some of the> methods are> > > already part of modern KP. From 1966
edition to 1971 edition, we> have seen> > > shift towards using sub-lord (both planetary
and cuspal) more often.> The> > > shift is continuing and the use of sub has increased
over a period> of time> > > in KP.> > >> > > *4) If the 4 step Theory is better, than how
could the old*> > > *ptactioners of Traditional KP, give so much wonderful*> > >
*predictions, as mentioned in the readers and the other*> > > *books from the Disciples
?*> > > This is a tough question. Neither KP practitioners, nor 4-step or> other> > >
practitioners are able to achieve the level we found in readers.> More> > > research and
study is needed.> > >> > > *5) Since Shri KSk was always for further research and*> > >
*improvisations, we as students are ready to change,*> > > *apply and amalgamate .
Which rules from the 4 Step *> > > *can be picked up and applied to the Traditional
without *> > > *disturbing its Structure completely ?*> > > Positional strength and role of
sub's star is already in use in KP.> These> > > are also used extensively in 4-step theory.
If I remember Sunil> > > ji correctly, most of them are borrowed from KP only.> > >> > >
*6) What do you advise the new comers who enter KP.*> > > *should they straight away
move towards the 4 step or*> > > *should they study both the KP and the 4 step and in*>
> > *that process confuse themselves ?*> > > As the basics of 4-step is in KP, I
recommend going through KP> rst. Other> > > members can have different opinion.> >
>> > > *7) I am given to understand that for certain Charts the*> > > *asnwers are not
available unless one applies the *> > > *4 Step. In that case what is the percentage of
such *> > > *charts you would give, out of 100, where the Traditional*> > > *KP does not
seem to work ?*> > > Truly speaking I am not in agreement with this saying.> > >> > >
Most of the time it happens because we miss ner KP principles. The> number> > > of
such charts are not very high. Though we must remember that> whichever> > > system
we use, there is some selections need to be made by> astrologer, and> > > there comes
the difference. For example, in the quizzes we have seen> that no> > > two KP or 4-step
astrologers came up with the same answer.> > >> > > Thanks & Regards,> > >> > > Punit
Pandey> > >> > >> > > On Sat, Dec 19, 2009 at 11:26 PM, Bhaskar bhaskar_jyotish@
...wrote:> > >> > > >> > > >> > > > *Dear Learned Senior astrologers of the Group,*> > > >
**> > > > I was going through the Tutorials, and stumbled upon the> > > > 4 Step theory
rules. Of Course I was not unaware of> > > > these.> > > >> > > > My Queries to you
which hope would be answered honestly> > > > and with convictions and fearlessly.> > >
>> > > > 1) Which system is *better*. The KP or the 4 Step ?> > > >> > > > 2) In case the
latter, than should we *discard* the Traditional> > > > KP Method ?> > > >> > > > 3)
Certain rules considered as 4 Step, are *already there* in> > > > the KP Traditional , albeit
not in detailed manner, but> > > > references are thrown in here and there. So can> > > >
we pick up those rules which can help us in KP> > > > traditional, or totally shift to the 4
Step ?> > > >> > > > 4) If the 4 step Theory is better, than how could the old> > > >
ptactioners of Traditional KP, give so much *wonderful*> > > > *predictions, * as
mentioned in the readers and the other> > > > books from the Disciples ?> > > >> > > > 5)
Since Shri KSk was always for further research and> > > > improvisations, we as
students are ready to change,> > > > apply and amalgamate . Which rules from the 4
Step> > > > can be picked up and *applied to the Traditional* without> > > > disturbing its
Structure completely ?> > > >> > > > 6) What do you advise the new comers who enter
KP.> > > > should they straight away move towards the 4 step or> > > > should they study
both the KP and the 4 step and in> > > > that process *confuse* themselves ?> > > >> > >
> 7) I am given to understand that for certain Charts the> > > > asnwers are not available
fearlessly. We do not have to necessarily> > > > look good, but be *truthful* to ourselves
and the> > > > student community.> > > >> > > > Please do not advise that they are "not
different systems"> > > > or just an "improvisation" , because both cannot be applied>
together.> > > >> > > > regards/Bhaskar.> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > >> >> >> >
________________________________> > See what's on at the movies in your area. Find out
now.> >> >> >> > The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Homepage.>
http://in./> >>
 Quote
dear bhaskar,
pl.dont spread the wrong information about my book.

Guests
it is containing 97 pages of a4 size with excellent paper quality
and excellentprinting and not a xerox one(which you might be xeroxed from other
sources and not bought from me)with both south/north charts are
mentioned for study.
this is my humble request.
to study or not to study is depends on indivisuals.
thanks
-sunil gondhalekar
>
> Dear Shri Subhash ji, Thank You Sir for your kind reply. //When you
> say that most of the rules (of 4 step) have already been used by Late
> Shri. Shahasane you must have presumably understood them. // I have
> understood those rules whatever Shri Sahasneji has explained in his
> books. Whatever is taught as " 4 Step " now and presently, I am unable to
> understand fully, and the application part. //Therefore it is hard to
> believe that an astrologer of your caliber still nd it confusing. Your
> allegation that these rules are already used by Mr. Shahasane ji seems
> to be baseless if you say you did not understand the rules at all. //
> Thank You, but astrologer of calibre or not , theres no de nition or
> scale of measures as such. As explained above, the rules already used
> in Shri Sahasnejis books are understood due to the way its presented in
> a simple manner with proper illustrations.
> //It was ruled by moderator Mr. Punit Pandey ji that KP is what is
> described in KP Readers. Any new theories though derived from KP....such
> as Late Dr. Kar's Theory, K. Baskaran's theory etc are named differently
> to identify themselves from KP. 4 step theory is also one such theory.
> Can it be termed as KP just because you are not comfortable with naming
> it this way? // Shri Punit ji is right when he mentions that all new
> theories, improvisations and additions must be given a seperate name so
> as it is clearly understood by any new entrant to understand what is
> Original KP, and what is beyond KP. I have no issues here. But if its a
> new theory then please be genuine in saying that its Original and that
> no rules have been picked from any other source. If it is not new then
> please mention the source and also acknowledgment of the source, with
> due respect given to the source before we address ourself as the
> originator. Another matter is that before a theory is propounded, then
> please make it undersrandable to at least 70% of the members. In an
> earlier mail where reference was made by Shri Sunil ji, to Shri
> Sahasnejis books that he has not written everything but written articles
> from his Guru Hasbe jis magazines which Shri Sunil Gondhalekarji has
> admitted that Guruji has done the editing, then I do not understand
> wheres the problem if Guruji Hasbe has himself done the editing ? Why
> must we point ngers at anyone ? And why were you silent at that mail ?
> At least for Rs. 300/- the students have got a millions Rupees worth of
> knowledge from his books containing hundreds of examples and simple
> style of explaining the rules. The photo of his Guruji has been put on
> his books, due respect has been given, his Gurujis reference is made in
> almost every second Chapter. Do You see this in Shri Suniljis book which
> I purchased from him for Rs.500- containg 40 pages of large Fonts (Xerox
> Pages) written in a hurried manner, and absolute confused depictions of
> the rules ? No reference to his Guruji, no respect , no acknowledgement,
> just nothing. ( If the Pravchankaar depicting stories from the Ramayana
> to an audience,does not pay respect to the original VedVyas ji who is
> the Author of this epic, and acknowledge them, then how can he gain
> grace of His guru or the respect from the audience who is listening to
> his discourses ?) See I am not concerend with all this, nor am
> interested in Politics, nor care for who acknolwedges whom, but
> mentioning this just because ngers were pointed at Shri Sahasne ji .
> If I am not mistaken Shri Sunilji and Shri Shasneji have learnt KP from
> the same Guru Hasbeji. pointing one nger at others means pointing 3 at
> ourselves, is what made me write above. // It is your decision not to
> comment on 4 step any more, however any constructive comments are always
> welcome. No system is complete in itself and there is always scope for
> improvement. Please do not deprive the group members to gain from your
> vast knowledge and experience. // Sir late Shri Sahasne ji, and Shri
> Gondhlekarji and those from their generations including late Shri
> Raichurji, Yogeshji, etc. are Giants of their areas. We have much to
> learn from them. Theres no question of anybody gaining from us, when
> they are present around with us. And we have still much left to learn
> from whatever they have presented to this generation. Now I will always
> give my comments if they are constructive and you may please answer them
> whenever they come - astrological doubts about 4 Step. And I assure you
> they will be constructive and asking for further learning , and not for
> derision or unnecessary criticism. I humbly submit again - 1) We
> wish to learn the 4 Step, if its really useful. 2) But the present
> formats available for learning 4 Step is not satisfactory. 3) The rules
> are not demercated su ciently understandable enough. 4) If people like
> your goodself, Shri Tinwinji, Shri Gondhlekarji, Shri Yogeshji, Shri
> Punitji, etc. and whoever has understood the 4 Step properly are able to
> write exhaustive Chapters with illustrations at every Step, and also
> make it in a Book form or make it available on the Net for download, it
> will become very useful for those who have learnt KP and you will be
> doing a wonderful service to the present and coming generations without
> doubt. 5) Even if the Book form costs Rs.1000- I am willing to pay for
> it. (this is to con rm that we are serious in wanting to study the
> same, but feel helpless with the current formats of presentations). 6)
> Commercialisation is okay because one needs money to even have a morning
> cup of Tea, but write books which serve the purpose, for which the
> reader buys them, and not to confuse them, so that they come back asking
> for further information. I am sorry and apologise if I have offended
> anyone connected to the 4 Step, and my full respects to Shri
> Gondhlekarji for presenting the 4 Step theory to us. He is a very
> knowledgable man, and I have nothing personal against him, so please
> ignore the wrong signals if any. I just wish that everyone must be given
> his due respect as regards to the 4 Step theory for wehatver has been
> their contributions. Thanks and Regards, bhaskar.
>
, Subhash Ektare <subhash_ektare@>
> wrote:
>>
>>
> > When you say that most of the rules (of 4 step) have already been used
> by Late Shri. Shahasane you must have presumably understood them.
> Therefore it is hard to believe that an astrologer of your caliber still
> nd it confusing. Your allegation that these rules are already used by
> Mr. Shahasane ji seems to be baseless if you say you did not understand
> the rules at all.
>>
> > It was ruled by moderator Mr. Punit Pandey ji that KP is what is
> described in KP Readers. Any new theories though derived from KP....such
> as Late Dr. Kar's Theory, K. Baskaran's theory etc are named differently
> to identify themselves from KP. 4 step theory is also one such theory.
> Can it be termed as KP just because you are not comfortable with naming
> it this way? It is your decision not to comment on 4 step any more,
> however any constructive comments are always welcome. No system is
> complete in itself and there is always scope for improvement. Please do
> not deprive the group members to gain from your vast knowledge and
> experience.
>>
> > Thanks and Regards,
>>
> > Subhash Ektare
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
> > ________________________________
> > Bhaskar bhaskar_jyotish@
>>
> > Mon, December 21, 2009 2:56:43 AM
> > Re: Which system is better. The KP or the 4 Step
>?
>>
>>
> > Dear Subhash ji,
> > // Then I fail to understand why the fact that " he used apparent
> presently Titled, 4 Step rules, very effectively in KP without making it
> confusing " may not be of common knowledge? //
> > What is today known as 4 Step, most of the rules have already been
> used by Shri Sahasne in his books written many years ago, is what may
> not be common knowledge, is what I am tring to say Sir. Removing
> something from KP, then adding another set of confusing rules to it and
> naming it " 4 Step " is not what I am comfortable with. Shri Sahasne has
> made improvisations to KP in his books, mentioned the areas where he
> feels further research must be done, accepted his dissatisfactions in
> certain areas, but never claimed to be originator of any new theories.
> > If You have understood the 4 Step well, then you may be fortunate. Any
> improvisations if makes some sense and is not confusing to a student -
> Beginner or Advanced level student, is always welcome. I did not even
> understand properly your translation in the Files Section where a 58 KB
> File on Fout Step theory Rules are, put up. There are about 10 Ruless
> mentioned which themselves contain many others within them.
> Understanding the English in any article is another matter,
> understanding the rules is a seperate matter, and application of them is
> again another junction. When to apply which rules is again confusing.
> This is my personal opinion as I mentioned before.
> > About 4 Step I will refrain from commenting further.
> > kind regards,
> > Bhaskar.
>>
>>
>>
>>
> > @gro ups.com, Subhash Ektare <subhash_ektare@
> ...> wrote:
>>>
> > > Dear Members,
>>>
> > > As far as my knowledge goes, 4 step theory is based on KP principles
> only adding and /or improvising some rules. Further the method of
> working out signi cation of each planet is entirely different. To
> differentiate this aspect from KP (and not get confused as KP) it was
> suitably titled as " 4 Step Theory " . Therefore to understand 4 step,
> knowledge of KP as given in KSK's Readers is necessary.
>>>
> > > Secondly, in my personal opinion, I do not nd 4 step theory
> confusing. There are very few rules which can be understood even by a
> beginner. In fact I am very comfortable with 4 step theory.
>>>
> > > Late Mr. Suresh shahasane has written many books on KP in Marathi
> and these were translated in Hindi and Gujrathi, I suppose. These books
> must be widely used by many KP astrologers. Then I fail to understand
> why the fact that " he used apparent presently Titled, 4 Step rules, very
> effectively in KP without making it confusing " may not be of common
> knowledge? But if this is a fact, then credit must go to him. Frankly
> speaking since I have not read his books I cannot comment on this. But
> there must be many members in this forum who have read his books, can
> throw some light on this.
>>>
> > > Regards,
> > > Subhash Ekatre
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
> > > ____________ _________ _________ __
> > > Bhaskar bhaskar_jyotish@ ...
> > > @gro ups.com
> > > Sun, December 20, 2009 6:26:09 AM
> > > Re: Which system is better. The KP or the 4
> Step ?
>>>
>>>
> > > Dear Punit ji,
>>>
> > > Thanks for spending time on my mail and giving straight honest
> replies
> > > to the queries.
>>>
> > > I would like to mention now that my personal opinion is that the 4
> Step
> > > Theory may be too confusing at times with too many heavy weighted
> > > rules which may not all be understood properly by a student, in
> complete.
>>>
> > > Another fact which may not be of common knowledge,
> > > is that Late Shri Suresh Sahasneji in his books (which were
> > > written many years ago) has used the apparent presently Titled,
> > > 4 Step rules, very effectively in KP without making it confusing.
> > > This may have now later come to be known as 4 Step with further
> > > rules added to it , is another matter, but was actually KP in detail
> > > and improvised.
>>>
> > > I would recommend students to learn Traditional KP through the usual
> > > methods and also read the above books for grasping of further rules,
> > > rather than going for 4 Step straightaway which I am sorry,
> personally I
> > > am not comfortable with.
>>>
> > > (Let me also clear this, that I am in no way connected with selling
> of
> > > above books, nor have any particular interest, except that these
> books
> > > are really one of the nest, most simple to understand, and
> contains
> > > all KP And improvised rules minus the confusions, so that one can
> > > understand KP very easily rather than spending 10 years to
> understand
> > > Readers or 4 Step).
>>>
> > > warm regards,
> > > Bhaskar.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
> > > @gro ups.com, Punit Pandey punitp@ wrote:
>>>>
> > > > Dear Bhaskar ji,
>>>>
> > > > We have seen some heated debate in this forum when we try to do
> comparison.
> > > > This is a KP forum, so naturally the answer will be biased in
> favor of KP.
> > > > Even then, let me take some of the questions and answer them
> unbiased and
> > > > best of my capabilities.
>>>>
>>>>
> > > > *1) Which system is better. The KP or the 4 Step ?*
> > > > Comparison of any two systems is good. All systems do have pros
> and cons.
> > > > With the time and research we will have to highlight those points.
> Also
> > > > 4-step is a new system so it will take some time in terms of
> awareness
> > > > before even we start comparing it. In my opinion, it is too early.
>>>>
> > > > *2) In case the latter, than should we discard the Traditional*
> > > > *KP Method ?*
> > > > As per my earlier answer, it is too early to compare the systems.
> Sunil ji
> > > > himself participate in some of the quizzes etc. and any
> signi cant
> > > > advantages of 4-step over KP has yet to be found. In my opinion,
> 4-step is
> > > > still a system under development and highly dependent upon KP. I
> have seen
> > > > 4-step astrologers mixing KP extensively.
>>>>
> > > > *3) Certain rules considered as 4 Step, are already there in*
> > > > *the KP Traditional , albeit not in detailed manner, but*
> > > > *references are thrown in here and there. So can*
> > > > *we pick up those rules which can help us in KP *
> > > > *traditional, or totally shift to the 4 Step ?*
> > > > There are KP astrologer already using those methods. Some of the
> methods are
> > > > already part of modern KP. From 1966 edition to 1971 edition, we
> have seen
> > > > shift towards using sub-lord (both planetary and cuspal) more
> often. The
> > > > shift is continuing and the use of sub has increased over a period
> of time
> > > > in KP.
>>>>
> > > > *4) If the 4 step Theory is better, than how could the old*
> > > > *ptactioners of Traditional KP, give so much wonderful*
> > > > *predictions, as mentioned in the readers and the other*
> > > > *books from the Disciples ?*
> > > > This is a tough question. Neither KP practitioners, nor 4-step or
> other
> > > > practitioners are able to achieve the level we found in readers.
> More
> > > > research and study is needed.
>>>>
> > > > *5) Since Shri KSk was always for further research and*
> > > > *improvisations, we as students are ready to change,*
> > > > *apply and amalgamate . Which rules from the 4 Step *
> > > > *can be picked up and applied to the Traditional without *
> > > > *disturbing its Structure completely ?*
> > > > Positional strength and role of sub's star is already in use in
> KP. These
> > > > are also used extensively in 4-step theory. If I remember Sunil
> > > > ji correctly, most of them are borrowed from KP only.
>>>>
> > > > *6) What do you advise the new comers who enter KP.*
> > > > *should they straight away move towards the 4 step or*
> > > > *should they study both the KP and the 4 step and in*
> > > > *that process confuse themselves ?*
> > > > As the basics of 4-step is in KP, I recommend going through KP
> rst. Other
> > > > members can have different opinion.
>>>>
> > > > *7) I am given to understand that for certain Charts the*
> > > > *asnwers are not available unless one applies the *
> > > > *4 Step. In that case what is the percentage of such *
> > > > *charts you would give, out of 100, where the Traditional*
> > > > *KP does not seem to work ?*
> > > > Truly speaking I am not in agreement with this saying.
>>>>
> > > > Most of the time it happens because we miss ner KP principles.
> The number
> > > > of such charts are not very high. Though we must remember that
> whichever
> > > > system we use, there is some selections need to be made by
> astrologer, and
> > > > there comes the difference. For example, in the quizzes we have
> seen that no
> > > > two KP or 4-step astrologers came up with the same answer.
>>>>
> > > > Thanks & Regards,
>>>>
> > > > Punit Pandey
>>>>
>>>>
> > > > On Sat, Dec 19, 2009 at 11:26 PM, Bhaskar bhaskar_jyotish@
> ...wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
> > > > > *Dear Learned Senior astrologers of the Group,*
> > > > > **
> > > > > I was going through the Tutorials, and stumbled upon the
> > > > > 4 Step theory rules. Of Course I was not unaware of
> > > > > these.
>>>>>
> > > > > My Queries to you which hope would be answered honestly
> > > > > and with convictions and fearlessly.
>>>>>
> > > > > 1) Which system is *better*. The KP or the 4 Step ?
>>>>>
> > > > > 2) In case the latter, than should we *discard* the Traditional
> > > > > KP Method ?
>>>>>
> > > > > 3) Certain rules considered as 4 Step, are *already there* in
> > > > > the KP Traditional , albeit not in detailed manner, but
> > > > > references are thrown in here and there. So can
> > > > > we pick up those rules which can help us in KP
> > > > > traditional, or totally shift to the 4 Step ?
>>>>>
> > > > > 4) If the 4 step Theory is better, than how could the old
> > > > > ptactioners of Traditional KP, give so much *wonderful*
> > > > > *predictions, * as mentioned in the readers and the other
> > > > > books from the Disciples ?
>>>>>
> > > > > 5) Since Shri KSk was always for further research and
> > > > > improvisations, we as students are ready to change,
> > > > > apply and amalgamate . Which rules from the 4 Step
> > > > > can be picked up and *applied to the Traditional* without
> > > > > disturbing its Structure completely ?
>>>>>
> > > > > 6) What do you advise the new comers who enter KP.
> > > > > should they straight away move towards the 4 step or
> > > > > should they study both the KP and the 4 step and in
> > > > > that process *confuse* themselves ?
>>>>>
> > > > > 7) I am given to understand that for certain Charts the
> > > > > asnwers are not available unless one applies the
> > > > > 4 Step. In that case *what is the percentage* of such
> > > > > charts you would give, out of 100, where the Traditional
> > > > > KP does not seem to work ?
>>>>>
> > > > > As requested above, please answer the above
> > > > > honesty and fearlessly. We do not have to necessarily
> > > > > look good, but be *truthful* to ourselves and the
> > > > > student community.
>>>>>
> > > > > Please do not advise that they are " not different systems "
> > > > > or just an " improvisation " , because both cannot be applied
> together.
>>>>>
> > > > > regards/Bhaskar.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
 Quote
Dear Bhaskar,
Whatever Punit says,as quoted by you, is not necessarily correct...because,if as he

says,anything written in K.P. Readers is K.P., than are all other students who have
contributed a variety of research articles, in K.P. & Athrishta & K.P. & Astrology...do not
Guests use K.P. ? ? !
Truly,a laughable statement indeed, if Punit has truly said so... Yogesh Lajmi.
Amit Soman <amitbs2002Sent: Tue, 22 December, 2009 5:57:27 PMRe: Re: Which
system is better. The KP or the 4 Step ?
Dear Mr. Bhaskar,
If i sum up your mail i understand that,You need more clarity on 4 step rules. If this is
right i would suggest that you write your speci c requirements / doubts to Sunilji /
Subhashji . My experience is that they reply 100%.
Regards
Amit Soman
Bhaskar <bhaskar_jyotish@ .co. in>@gro ups.comTue, December 22, 2009 2:33:14 AM

such.
Gondhalekarji has admitted that Guruji has done the
editing, then I do not understand wheres the problem if Guruji Hasbe has himself done
the editing ? Why must we point ngers at anyone ? And why were you silent at that mail
? At least for Rs. 300/- the students have got a millions Rupees worth of knowledge
from his books containing hundreds of examples and simple style of explaining the
rules. The photo of his Guruji has been put on his books, due respect has been given, his
Gurujis reference is made in almost every second Chapter. Do You see this in Shri
Suniljis book which I purchased from him for Rs.500- containg 40 pages of large Fonts
(Xerox Pages) written in a hurried manner, and absolute confused depictions of the rules
? No reference to his Guruji, no respect , no acknowledgement, just nothing.
without doubt.
of presentations) .
Thanks and Regards,
bhaskar.
@gro ups.com, Subhash Ektare <subhash_ektare@ ...> wrote:>> Dear Bhaskar ji,> >
When you say that most of the rules (of 4 step) have already been used by Late Shri.
Shahasane you must have presumably understood them. Therefore it is hard to believe
that an astrologer of your caliber still nd it confusing. Your allegation that these rules
are already used by Mr. Shahasane ji seems to be baseless if you say you did not
understand the rules at all. > > It was ruled by moderator Mr. Punit Pandey ji that KP is
what is described in KP Readers. Any new theories though derived from KP....such as
Late Dr. Kar's Theory, K. Baskaran's theory etc are named differently to identify
because you are not comfortable with naming it this way? It is your decision not to
comment on 4 step any more, however any
> > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __> Bhaskar bhaskar_jyotish@ ...> @gro
ups.com> Mon, December 21, 2009 2:56:43 AM> Re: Which system is better. The KP or
the 4 Step ?> > > Dear Subhash ji,> // Then I fail to understand why the fact that"he used
apparent presently Titled, 4 Step rules, very effectively in KP without making it
confusing" may not be of common knowledge? //> What is today known as 4 Step, most
of the rules have already been used by Shri Sahasne in his books written many years
ago, is what may not be
application of them is
again another junction. When to apply which rules is again confusing. This is my
personal opinion as I mentioned before.> About 4 Step I will refrain from commenting
further.> kind regards,> Bhaskar.> > > > > @gro ups.com, Subhash Ektare
<subhash_ektare@ ...> wrote:> >> > Dear Members,> > > > As far as my knowledge goes,
4 step theory is based on KP principles only adding and /or improvising some rules.
Further the method of working out signi cation of each planet is entirely different. To
differentiate this aspect from KP (and not get confused as KP) it was suitably titled as "4
Step Theory". Therefore to understand 4 step, knowledge of KP as given in KSK's
Readers is necessary. > > > > Secondly, in my personal opinion, I do not nd 4 step
theory confusing. There are very few rules which can be understood
even by a beginner. In fact I am very comfortable with 4 step theory.> > > > Late Mr.
Suresh shahasane has written many books on KP in Marathi and these were translated
in Hindi and Gujrathi, I suppose. These books must be widely used by many KP
astrologers. Then I fail to understand why the fact that"he used apparent presently
members in this forum who have read his books, can throw some light on this. > > > >
Regards,> > Subhash Ekatre> > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __>
> Bhaskar bhaskar_jyotish@ ...> > @gro
or the 4 Step ?> > > > > > Dear Punit ji,> > > > Thanks for spending time on my mail and
giving straight honest replies> > to the queries.> > > > I would like to mention now that
my personal opinion is that the 4 Step> > Theory may be too confusing at times with too
many heavy weighted> > rules which may not all be understood properly by a student, in
complete. > > > > Another fact which may not be of common knowledge,> > is that Late
Shri Suresh Sahasneji in his books (which were> > written many years ago) has used the
apparent presently Titled,> > 4 Step rules, very effectively in KP without making it
confusing. > > This may have now later come to be known as 4 Step
with further > > rules added to it , is another matter, but was actually KP in detail> > and
improvised. > > > > I would recommend students to learn Traditional KP through the
usual > > methods and also read the above books for grasping of further rules, > > rather
than going for 4 Step straightaway which I am sorry, personally I > > am not comfortable
with.> > > > (Let me also clear this, that I am in no way connected with selling of> >
spending 10 years to understand> > Readers or 4 Step).> > > > warm regards,> >
Bhaskar.> >
> > > > > > > > @gro ups.com, Punit Pandey punitp@ wrote:> > >> > > Dear Bhaskar ji,> > >
> > > We have seen some heated debate in this forum when we try to do comparison.> >
> This is a KP forum, so naturally the answer will be biased in favor of KP.> > > Even then,
let me take some of the questions and answer them unbiased and> > > best of my
capabilities.> > > > > > > > > *1) Which system is better. The KP or the 4 Step ?*> > >
Comparison of any two systems is good. All systems do have pros and cons.> > > With
the time and research we will have to highlight those points. Also> > > 4-step is a new
system so it will take some time in terms of awareness> > > before even we start
comparing it. In my opinion, it is
too early.> > > > > > *2) In case the latter, than should we discard the Traditional*> > >
*KP Method ?*> > > As per my earlier answer, it is too early to compare the systems.
Sunil ji> > > himself participate in some of the quizzes etc. and any signi cant> > >
advantages of 4-step over KP has yet to be found. In my opinion, 4-step is> > > still a
system under development and highly dependent upon KP. I have seen> > > 4-step
astrologers mixing KP extensively.> > > > > > *3) Certain rules considered as 4 Step, are
already there in*> > > *the KP Traditional , albeit not in detailed manner, but*> > >
*references are thrown in here and there. So can*> > > *we pick up those rules which can
help us in KP *> > > *traditional, or totally shift to the 4 Step ?*> > >
There are KP astrologer already using those methods. Some of the methods are> > >
already part of modern KP. From 1966 edition to 1971 edition, we have seen> > > shift
towards using sub-lord (both planetary and cuspal) more often. The> > > shift is
continuing and the use of sub has increased over a period of time> > > in KP.> > > > > >
*4) If the 4 step Theory is better, than how could the old*> > > *ptactioners of Traditional
KP, give so much wonderful*> > > *predictions, as mentioned in the readers and the
other*> > > *books from the Disciples ?*> > > This is a tough question. Neither KP
practitioners, nor 4-step or other> > > practitioners are able to achieve the level we found
in readers. More> > > research and study is needed.> > > > > > *5) Since Shri KSk was
always
for further research and*> > > *improvisations, we as students are ready to change,*> > >
*apply and amalgamate . Which rules from the 4 Step *> > > *can be picked up and
applied to the Traditional without *> > > *disturbing its Structure completely ?*> > >
Positional strength and role of sub's star is already in use in KP. These> > > are also used
extensively in 4-step theory. If I remember Sunil> > > ji correctly, most of them are
borrowed from KP only.> > > > > > *6) What do you advise the new comers who enter
KP.*> > > *should they straight away move towards the 4 step or*> > > *should they study
both the KP and the 4 step and in*> > > *that process confuse themselves ?*> > > As the
basics of 4-step is in KP, I recommend going through KP rst. Other> > > members can
have different opinion.> > > > > > *7) I am given to understand that for certain Charts
the*> > > *asnwers are not available unless one applies the *> > > *4 Step. In that case
what is the percentage of such *> > > *charts you would give, out of 100, where the
Traditional*> > > *KP does not seem to work ?*> > > Truly speaking I am not in
agreement with this saying.> > > > > > Most of the time it happens because we miss
ner KP principles. The number> > > of such charts are not very high. Though we must
remember that whichever> > > system we use, there is some selections need to be made
by astrologer, and> > > there comes the difference. For example, in the quizzes we have
seen that no> > > two KP or 4-step astrologers came up with the same answer.> > > > > >
Thanks & Regards,> > > > > > Punit Pandey> > > > > > > > > On Sat, Dec 19, 2009 at 11:26
PM, Bhaskar bhaskar_jyotish@ ...wrote:> > > > > > >> > > >> > > > *Dear Learned Senior
astrologers of the Group,*> > > > **> > > > I was going through the Tutorials, and
stumbled upon the> > > > 4 Step theory rules. Of Course I was not unaware of> > > >
these.> > > >> > > > My Queries to you which hope would be answered honestly> > > >
and with convictions and fearlessly.> > > >> > > > 1) Which system is *better*. The KP or
the 4 Step ?> > > >> > > > 2) In case the latter, than should we *discard* the Traditional> >
> > KP Method ?> > >
>> > > > 3) Certain rules considered as 4 Step, are *already there* in> > > > the KP
Traditional , albeit not in detailed manner, but> > > > references are thrown in here and
there. So can> > > > we pick up those rules which can help us in KP> > > > traditional, or
totally shift to the 4 Step ?> > > >> > > > 4) If the 4 step Theory is better, than how could
the old> > > > ptactioners of Traditional KP, give so much *wonderful*> > > >
*predictions, * as mentioned in the readers and the other> > > > books from the Disciples
?> > > >> > > > 5) Since Shri KSk was always for further research and> > > >
improvisations, we as students are ready to change,> > > > apply and amalgamate .
Which rules from the 4 Step> > > >
can be picked up and *applied to the Traditional* without> > > > disturbing its Structure
completely ?> > > >> > > > 6) What do you advise the new comers who enter KP.> > > >
should they straight away move towards the 4 step or> > > > should they study both the
KP and the 4 step and in> > > > that process *confuse* themselves ?> > > >> > > > 7) I
am given to understand that for certain Charts the> > > > asnwers are not available
fearlessly. We do not have to
necessarily> > > > look good, but be *truthful* to ourselves and the> > > > student
community.> > > >> > > > Please do not advise that they are "not different systems"> > >
> or just an "improvisation" , because both cannot be applied together.> > > >> > > >
regards/Bhaskar.> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> >>
 Quote
1 2 3 NEXT  Page 1 of 3 
 Your content will need to be approved by a moderator
 Reply to this topic...
 GO TO TOPIC LISTING
Vedic Astrology (Jyotisha)
       
 Home  IndiaDivine.org Forums on Hinduism  Vedic Astrology (Jyotisha)  Which system is better. The KP or the 4 Step ?  All Activity
Theme  Ask a Question

Powered by Invision Community

Which System Is Better. The KP or The 4 Step - Vedic Astrology (Jyotisha)

Uploaded by

Document Information

Original Title

Copyright

Available Formats

Share this document

Share or Embed Document

Sharing Options

Did you find this document useful?

Is this content inappropriate?

Copyright:

Available Formats

Which System Is Better. The KP or The 4 Step - Vedic Astrology (Jyotisha)

Uploaded by

Copyright:

Available Formats

12/29/2018 Which system is better. The KP or the 4 Step ? - Vedic Astrology (Jyotisha) - IndiaDivine.

IndiaDivine.org Existing user? Sign In  Sign Up

Articles Forums Downloads Pictures Leaderboard Spiritual Questions Search... 

Which system is better. The KP or  Sign in to follow this Followers 0

I was going through the Tutorials, and stumbled upon the

Shri Krishna Govinda Hare Murare (M…

Lal Kitab: Volume 1 (1952 Edition) in …

2) In case the latter, than should we discard the Traditional

3) Certain rules considered as 4 Step, are already there in

the KP Traditional , albeit not in detailed manner, but

references are thrown in here and there. So can

we pick up those rules which can help us in KP

traditional, or totally shift to the 4 Step ?

4) If the 4 step Theory is better, than how could the old

ptactioners of Traditional KP, give so much wonderful

How To Make & Publish Books -

predictions, as mentioned in the readers and the other

5) Since Shri KSk was always for further research and

improvisations, we as students are ready to change,

apply and amalgamate . Which rules from the 4 Step

can be picked up and applied to the Traditional without

disturbing its Structure completely ?

6) What do you advise the new comers who enter KP.

should they straight away move towards the 4 step or

should they study both the KP and the 4 step and in

that process confuse themselves ?

7) I am given to understand that for certain Charts the

asnwers are not available unless one applies the

4 Step. In that case what is the percentage of such

charts you would give, out of 100, where the Traditional

KP does not seem to work ?

As requested above, please answer the above

honesty and fearlessly. We do not have to necessarily

look good, but be truthful to ourselves and the

Please do not advise that they are "not different systems"

or just an "improvisation", because both cannot be applied together.

Guest guest Posted December 20, 2009 Report post 

Dear Bhaskar ji,

2) In case the latter, than should we discard the Traditional

As per my earlier answer, it is too early to compare the systems. Sunil ji himself

3) Certain rules considered as 4 Step, are already there in

the KP Traditional , albeit not in detailed manner, but

references are thrown in here and there. So can

we pick up those rules which can help us in KP

traditional, or totally shift to the 4 Step ?

4) If the 4 step Theory is better, than how could the old

CEO Bets $1.1B on 1 Pot Stock

ptactioners of Traditional KP, give so much wonderful

predictions, as mentioned in the readers and the other

books from the Disciples ?

5) Since Shri KSk was always for further research and

apply and amalgamate . Which rules from the 4 Step

can be picked up and applied to the Traditional without

disturbing its Structure completely ?

6) What do you advise the new comers who enter KP.

should they straight away move towards the 4 step or

should they study both the KP and the 4 step and in

that process confuse themselves ?

7) I am given to understand that for certain Charts the

asnwers are not available unless one applies the

4 Step. In that case what is the percentage of such

charts you would give, out of 100, where the Traditional

KP does not seem to work ?