Brutal Beginnings

This is a work of Open Source Philosophy.
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© Copyright of Ruthless Press Ltd..
Published by Ruthless Press Ltd
www.ruthlesstruth.com - 2
This book is dedicated to the memory of Ilan Halimi.
You are why we fight.
Introduction
What you are about to read is evidence.
Evidence of a discovery.
On the 13th of July 2010, a man worked out a way to disrupt the core mechanism that underlies all
needless human suffering, as well as all destructive feelings, thoughts and behaviour.
In the months that followed, he set up a website called ruthlesstruth.com. On this site, there is a
forum which is named the Ruthless Arena.
What you are about to read are conversations taken from that Arena.
This book is not pretty. It is not nice. But it contains a simple, single truth which, once seen, will
utterly free you from ever being consumed by obsession, neediness or suffering.. You can still
obsess, you can still need and you can still suffer - but see this one truth, and you can never be
consumed by them.
It is not a complex truth. It does not require a dizzying intellect, nor any level of prior philosophical
knowledge to see it.
It requires only honesty. That alone.
We are well aware that claims such as these seem both outlandish and ridiculous on face value. If
you feel suspicious of our motivations or our sincerity, we understand. There are a great many lies
in this world of ours.
But then of course, we have evidence. So do not trust us. Test us.
Now for the love of God, pay attention.
Chapter 1:
Not An Inch Spiritual
The best thing is ...

by deadzior » Tue Sep 14, 2010 9:32 pm
The best thing is - that it's not an inch spiritual.
Re: The best thing is ...

by Ciaran » Tue Sep 14, 2010 9:52 pm
Don't fucking tell me you've cracked it. Oh shit, dude, Raul, check this motherfucker out.
Ok, deadzior, if that even is your real name. Take some time, push it through. Move into it, and kick
the shit out of it from every angle you can think of. Make sure it's not just some bullshit. Prove to
yourself it's concrete.
I'm as giddy as a schoolgirl.
That's a nice thing to start the Arena with. One liberated in the very first day.
Raul - nice work mate. Put a notch on your belt.
Sick.

When I started studying and applying Tolle's stuff like 2 years ago, I knew it was 100 times more
real than all this new age shit.
I learned to see things in more clarity – what Tolle calls "presence". That was about changing
quality of perception. To see things as they are in reality, not through filters.
Tolle often used a motif of bird in his talks: children see a bird as it is, without labelling, but then
they learn labels and looks at it lifelessly.
His deduction was simple.
If you look at things in presence you see them in their pure form. You look at a bird in presence -
you see a real bird. You look at self in presence - you see real self.
But when you follow Tolle's steps it's still fucked up. You look at 'self' through all this spiritual
bullshit. Identify, and discard, then what? You see no labels, you see no opinions, you see no
thoughts, you see... nothing!
And you're always reaching for some super-self, some kind of you-as-true-reality magic download
that will save you. There's no you to save.
And now? Spiritual aspect - gone.
Being subject to supernatural cause? Gone.
Having foundations in something beyond possibility of your comprehension? Gone.
Getting to know what's down there in the depths of metaphysics isn't even a part of our endeavour.
We ain't playin' quantum physics, ain't we?

Well, not yet – but don't get lost. Focus on the core - the absence of you. The absence of self. Of
cause, of a cause for your life. The absence of an experiencer behind the experience. Describe that.

Many words apply.
This realization neither should provide confusion nor joy or any other feeling.
My written expression of it is absolutely unnecessary.
It can be described in many ways, but again effort of doing so may be called nonsensical.
Things pop in 'my' head, explanations of this from different standpoints, but I also see that all that
enormous knowledge that it can be surrounded by.
Even those puzzles that now seem to fall into place are nothing.
The last one is special. THE PUZZLES DON'T NEED TO FALL INTO PLACE ANYMORE.

Nice. Very nice. Welcome to the motherfucking war, man.
I noticed all the time I was feeling interchangeably "good" and "bad" about what and how I've
written, what I thought, and what my thoughts' relation("opinion") to this.
And now I wouldn't describe this as "feelings that I'm above of" as fellow practitioner of Tolle
would say.
Rather just mere disappearance and reappearance of realization in memory.
Nie moge sie powstrzymac: amrite? ;p

deadzior wrote:
“And now I wouldn't describe this as "feelings that I'm above of" as fellow practitioner of
Tolle would say... Rather just mere disappearance and reappearance of realization in
memory.”
Yes, that is exactly right. Pitch perfect.

Oh my God, you bastard. You knew from the beginning that for this Arena to flourish is to
essentially die.

Yes, I am the world's most evil man.

I regret nothing.
by Kevin » Wed Sep 15, 2010 6:59 am
Ciaran wrote:
“Ok, don't get lost. Focus on the core - the absence of you. The absence of self. Of cause, of
a cause for your life. The absence of an experiencer behind the experience. Describe that.”
THERE IT IS!
Well hello there! I didn't see you before.
What I call the experiencer is part of the experience itself.
What's it like? Everything is spinning. It's all just, going round and round and round. Sort of like...
Bad Wolf. Writing itself. I'm still sitting here, typing and thinking and doing like I do. Only now it's
all happening and I isn't apart of it. Not a part, but apart! I is it, and thus I isn't.
I is the experience, and thus I isn't the experiencer.
What is called I never existed. This is true in a testable and demonstrable way. This is true in every
way that you can understand it, even if it seems incomprehensible. This is absolutely, irrevocably,
and unequivocally true. I refers to nothing.

by deadzior » Wed Sep 15, 2010 8:40 am
Kevin wrote:
“Only now it's all happening and I isn't apart of it. Not a part, but apart! I am it, and thus I
isn't. I is the experience, and thus I isn't the experiencer.”
Well written
"I" is a part of life but isn't apart from life.
By "it" I mean experience, content, just the stuff that is perceived.
"I" is no different than the rest of the content.
You can't give it special place, it's just "something" as everything else, it doesn't have special quality
to it.
You can just easily discard it. Holding a belief of it is just like holding a belief of anything else. Of
course - you can do it, like every other person in the world.
by Ciaran » Wed Sep 15, 2010 7:23 pm
Kevin wrote:
“THERE IT IS!
Well hello there! I didn't see you before.
What I calls the experiencer is part of the experience itself.
What's it like? Everything is spinning. It's all just, going round and round and round. Sort of
like... Bad Wolf. Writing itself. I'm still sitting here, typing and thinking and doing like I do.
Only now it's all happening and I isn't apart of it. Not a part, but apart! I is it, and thus I
isn't.
I is the experience, and thus I isn't the experiencer.”
HEY. HEY HEY HEY.
That's another one. That's another one.
Stick the fuck with it mate. That's exactly it - you've put it perfectly
Kevin wrote:
"What I calls the experiencer is part of the experience itself."
Bad Wolf motherfucker, come on - push it hard. Look at it so deeply your eyes bleed and your heart
breaks. Come on, man, hit this shit. Hit it to fucking pieces.

Come on Kevin, break free, you're right there. Come on.
COME ON.

by fernandez » Wed Sep 15, 2010 7:33 pm
Stay with it, Kevin
Don't flinch not one bit.
by Kevin » Thu Sep 16, 2010 1:11 am
"There is no you."
That little reaction right there, distancing or denying this statement, where is it coming from?
Your thoughts are writing you.
the experience is writing your thoughts.
You are being written by the experience.
Thus, you are inseparable from the experience. If you are inseparable, who's experiencing?
Come on man, think! Look at it, hold it up, see it!
The thinking that you call yourself, is created by the experiencing. The thoughts you're having right
now, those are the experience. NO, you're not the experience. The experience is. You're not at all.
You, isn't. I is not. That's not ghetto talk. The subject of those sentences, "I" and "You", are not.
That's why you said it as "There is no you," isn't it Ciaran. "I is not" would only make people think
that you're crazy. There is no you would have the added factor of causing them to defend
themselves.
How else can I use this? How else can I say it? What more does it do?

by Ciaran » Thu Sep 16, 2010 1:13 am
I think we're about to find out. That's a confirmed. Kevin, you're in. Welcome to the war.
Chapter 2:
I'm Full Of Shit
I’m full of shit.

by Kakistos » Mon Sep 20, 2010 3:15 am
In fact, I’m so full of shit that I spent 3 days almost constantly rolling this “no me” thing around in
my head and all it got me was that I don’t ACTUALLY think it’s true.
Honestly I was more open to the idea before I started thinking about it. I had a 5-hour session of
sitting down.
Thinking, writing what I thought was true down, to then scribble it out because when I read it again,
it just stank of rehashed other people’s bullshit and flat-out lies to myself.
I’ve done all I can with the cogito = distraction
Brain in the grass = distraction
Baby lying on a blanket = distraction
I got fucking angry, so I dove into that, I twisted it around into “there is no ‘I am angry’ there is
only anger” = Fucking distraction
Even remembered something I heard: it may be a myth, but some philosophy paper in America,
there was only one question: “Why?” The answer that got an A on that paper was, “Why not?”
Fucking distractions.
I’m so mired in bullshit that I can’t see fucking truth. No matter how clear it is in front of my stupid
fucking face.
I made more progress in the 30 minutes prior to writing this than I did in the 3 days before that. And
ALL I came up with from that was literally, “I am”.
When I challenged that with the assumption that there is no me, there WAS no reply.
Not a single response or challenge. This is being so far from knowing, that I look at that notion and
it's like… “That’s a stupid fucking thing to say and I have no words for you”.
10 minutes working on the cogito while drunk my first night on the forums got me, “I am not,”
retarded thing is, that I was so drunk that I don’t even remember what got me there. I don’t forget
shit from drinking.
But that’s not something I should have dealt with in that condition, and now I’m just stuck with
MORE of other people’s bullshit.
And you know something? With my track record on clarity of purpose and consistency of thought
this could easily slingshot back to the other extreme tomorrow. Believe nothing I say. Because I
fucking don’t.
Re: I’m full of shit.

by ivanhernandez » Mon Sep 20, 2010 4:06 am
Your theories have no use, man. They are irrelevant to recognizing there is no you.
Don't be fucking lazy or a pussy.
You're not your bullshit.
Just look.
There is no you in any sense.
Have the courage to crack it or die.

by Rikki » Mon Sep 20, 2010 1:41 pm
You're thinking too much.
Trying to understand.
Don't worry; you'll understand fully when you're on the other side, so to speak.
I use the riding a bike analogy.
You've read how to do it.
You've questioned how to do it.
You've asked everyone how to ride it.
You've even gone out and bought a brand new fucking bike.
But you're sitting there looking at the bike.
Thinking.
Trying to comprehend.
Get on that saddle right now and just go for it.
Look deep inside at the possibility that you don't exist.
There are thoughts.
There are sounds.
There is sight.
There are feelings, etc...
But no 'you'.
It's a mind-made fiction, an illusion, a phantom self.
A lie you believe in because no one ever told you not to.
Well, I'm telling you, pleading with you, to abandon all beliefs, all thought structures, even all
questions, and do this:
Take a good, hard, deep look inside.
Look, as hard as you can into the possibility you don't exist.
You never did.
It was all a lie.
I don't want you to believe me.
In fact, I want you to be so fucking livid at me you're going to look as hard as you possibly can to
prove me wrong.
Prove me wrong.
Make me look the fool.
It is my invitation to you.

by Kakistos » Mon Sep 20, 2010 7:50 pm
There are no connections anymore.
All this shit I relate to each other, it's all individual shit that exists individually.
Caring, loving, hating, anger, fear, frustration.
When I try to look at it, there's nothing there TO look at it with.
I'm trying to see nothing with nothing.
Then other shit pops into my head and I think, "THAT'S a distraction"
I'm seeing the lies. Every fucking one of them.
It's like my mind has been designed to distract me from asking the one simple question of, "Is it
true?"
So I throw shit at it. Test the fuck out of it. My past experiences: was I ever there?
No. I wasn't. It was the experiences; it was the emotions.
DISTRACTIONS.
There is no me.
Is it true?
So many lies wrapped up in this question. A lifetime of lies.
Chapter 3:
If You Want Some, Come Get Some
If you want some, come get some.

Another invitation to enlighten you.
Bring your lies.
Bring your delusions.
I challenge you to make me look the fool.
Please, someone fuck me over.
Re: If you want some, come get some.

by Mr. Hyde » Mon Sep 20, 2010 2:49 pm
I'll play devil’s advocate if it helps. :)
Here's a question for you. If there is no such thing as "you," then what is a belief?

Believe me, I would bombard you with question after question if it would do any good. But it
won’t.
I already have all the answers I need.
The only thing I know to be true is that I have to figure out what is fucking true in all these
"answers".
But ANY other slave
Get your share of answers.
Right ones.
It's all a lie. Everything you know is a fucking lie.
This is the place to get some right ones.
I see no purpose in a liberated asking facile questions to force truth down the throat of those too
cowardly to ask their own.

by bobby » Mon Sep 20, 2010 7:46 pm
Kakistos wrote:
"Believe me, I would bombard you with question after question if it would do any good. But
it won't."
"I already have all the answers I need."
We have given you all that you need. So why aren't you free yet?
Kakistos wrote:
"The only thing I know to be true is that I have to figure out what is fucking true in all
these "answers"."
No. See that's your problem. You don't have to find an answer; you have to see the truth. You have
to see it. You can not be given anything but direction. That is what we are here for.
You have to work this out yourself. Work it out. It's the only way.
Kakistos wrote:
"I see no purpose in a liberated asking facile questions to force truth down the throat of
those too cowardly to ask their own."
We are not forcing the truth down your throat.
If it worked that way, I would shove it down your throat. That's how important this is.
We are telling you that you have to see the truth yourself.
You are the lie. You have to see through that one lie to see the truth.
This is freedom. Nothing is more important than this. Nothing.

The "answers" I was talking about is my bullshit.
The satori I practised for months.
Christ, I even went to a dojo for fucking zazen.
I went to a church for the first time in 8 years.
I fucking wept at the lies.
I weep for the lies.
All the "answers" I have are wrong.
IT'S ALL A LIE
There are NO right answers.
Only one truth. Truth isn't in an answer. It just IS.
I need to do what I've been doing for the last 4 days.
Sitting down. Shutting up and working it out.
Then reporting about how much bullshit I find in myself to you, you judgemental prick.
P.S., you misunderstood what I was saying in that post. Words are a poor medium for
communication.
Or I'm just shit at using them; either way, it doesn't matter.
It doesn't change what I have to do.

Kakistos wrote:
"I need to do what I've been doing for the last 4 days.
sitting down. shutting up and working it out."
Fucking Christ. That is what we have been telling you from the beginning.
Now do it.
Kakistos wrote:
"then reporting about how much bullshit I find in myself to you, you judgemental prick".
No. We don't want to hear your bullshit. We want to hear the truth in your words.

Nope.
No you, not even a fake one.
There is an illusion that your mind created.
It's just not there.
My original assumption before I got here was that the universe doesn't exist outside of YOU.
What I'm saying is that the universe and everything in it exists (I mean, there are atoms and shit =
exists)
What doesn't exist is YOU.
There are atoms in your brain (it's made of them), performing their function, sending signals
around, telling x part to do y thing.
But it's all biological
I am a response by my mind to the question: "What label am I?"
This created the fallacy of SELF.
I didn't label it, there was no me to do the labelling. The mind did. As it labels everything else it
labelled a "ME". It created something that never existed and gave it a name and that name was
"ME".
"I AM" a computer program, as real as a computer program in every sense. The processor is
crunching away, sending its signals around, telling shit what to do, and it creates the program.
Who wrote the program is the next logical question.
The mind, as a response to its own need for a label.

You're waffling.
You understand the whole no you thing.
That's good.
You understand the biological, physical is-ness of things.
Essentially your body does exist.
(I'm fucking sick of the pre-pubescent 'but there's no you so how can you have a body' bollocks)
So you get that. Good.
I commend you; you are starting to see.
But you're still a step away.
That step is the vital step.
The one that will liberate you from the shackle of delusion.
You mention in an earlier post about 'nothing seeing nothing.' That's powerfully true man.
But instead of going with it, going deeper into it, pushing it, testing it, you stopped and questioned
it.
You're very close; I can see some truth in your words.
A brutal honesty.
Channel this honesty into yourself.
Channel everything you have into cracking this.
I sense a creative mind under that mess.

Kakistos wrote:
“Nope.
No you, not even a fake one.
There is an illusion that your mind created.
It's just not there.
My original assumption before I got here was that the universe doesn't exist outside of YOU.
What I'm saying is that the universe and everything in it exists (I mean, there are atoms and
shit = exists)
What doesn't exist is YOU.
There are atoms in your brain (it's made of them), performing their function, sending signals
around, telling x part to do y thing.
But it's all biological.
I am a response by my mind to the question "what label am I?"
This created the fallacy of SELF.
I didn't label it, there was no me to do the labelling. The mind did. As it labels everything
else it labelled a "ME". It created something that never existed and gave it a name and that
name was "ME".
"I AM" a computer program, as real as a computer program in every sense. The processor
is crunching away, sending its signals around, telling shit what to do, and it creates the
program.
Who wrote the program is the next logical question.
The mind, as a response to its own need for a label.”
Now THIS is interesting.
I think you may actually have it. You might actually have it here.

All right motherfucker. Let's hear some more. Describe it.
What do you see / feel? Talk. I want to hear YOUR perspective.
Be clear. Be concise.

The mind wanted a tag to put on something simple JUST so it could relate it to the sensory input
around it.
The tag made it self aware. So it started taking fucking everything.
So there is no hunger, "I AM" hungry.
There is no loving, "I" love.
Everything gets consumed, sucked into this 'I'.
It wasn't the fucking mind's fault.
It was just doing its fucking job.
I've been so pissed off at my fucking mind for getting in "MY" way.
I've known the potential for years, and "I" haven't lived up to it.
Because there is no fucking "I" involved.
There was just doing. Or not doing.
This is why this is the root of all fucking suffering.
Instead of doing stuff for the sake of the action and result.
I was doing it for "myself".
How does it feel? Right now?
It feels fucking stupid is how it feels.
Nothing looking at nothing. THAT makes me fucking laugh.
I didn't even know what I was saying when "I" said that.
Now I see how fucking ironic that actually is. Because it's the truth.

“Kakistos wrote:
The mind wanted a tag to put on something simple
JUST so it could relate it to the sensory input around it.
The tag made it self aware. so it started taking fucking everything.”
This is really good.
“Kakistos wrote:
There is no hunger, "I AM" hungry.
There is no loving, "I" love”
You fucked it up here though. I have no idea what you are saying.
Focus.
Be fucking clear man. Stop fucking around.
“Kakistos wrote:
It wasn't the fucking minds fault.
It was just doing it's fucking job.”
What wasn't the mind's fault? You've gotta convey your shit clearly.
I was hoping to have you confirmed by now, but now I'm just not sure if you're there.
Clarity. Focus.
Kakistos wrote:
I've been so pissed off at my fucking mind for getting in "MY" way.
I've known the potential for years. and "I" haven't lived up to it.
Because there is no fucking "I" involved.
There was just doing. or not doing.
You're all over the place man.
Kakistos wrote:
“This is why this is the root of all fucking suffering.
Instead of doing stuff for the sake of the action and result.
I was doing it for "myself".”
What is the root of all suffering?
Do you see a pattern here? I shouldn't have to ask follow up questions.
Kakistos wrote:
“How does it feel? Right now?
It feels fucking stupid is how it feels.”
Stupid? Is that supposed to convince me? Which part feels stupid?
Kakistos wrote:
“Nothing looking at nothing. THAT makes me fucking laugh.
I didn't even know what I was saying when "I" said that.
Now I see how fucking ironic that actually is. Because it's the truth.”
What about nothing? You can talk about nothing if you want. But give me your perspective.
Pick one or two things and stick to that. Describe in detail.
You've done well, man. Really well. But you've gotta convince me.
I want to see you free dude.
Bobby wrote:
“Focus.
Be fucking clear man. Stop fucking around.”
There is no hunger, "I AM" hungry.
There is no loving, "I" love
THIS is what Self did when it took over.

It took away the actual thing – love, hunger – and made it a possession of self.
Bobby wrote:
“What wasn't the mind's fault? You've gotta convey your shit clearly.
I was hoping to have you confirmed by now, but now I'm just not sure if you're there.
Clarity. Focus.”
It wasn't the mind's fault that the self took over and raped fucking everything in life.
Bobby wrote:
“You're all over the place man.”
THIS is me being pissed off that I didn't know this already. Word vomit.
Bobby wrote:
“What is the root of all suffering?”
SELF! You fucking dolt.
Bobby wrote:
“Which part feels stupid?”
The whole thing.
This self-created self shit.
It's not only true that there is no self.
It's retarded to think otherwise.
Bobby wrote:
“What about nothing? You can talk about nothing if you want. But give me your
perspective.”
NOTHINGNESS is what everyone is scared of here.
What is stopping them from really breaking this shit apart.
It's not fear of the truth, or any of that shit.
THAT requires a self (which by the way, doesn't exist).
THE MIND is scared shitless that there may actually be nothing.
The nothing that I'm talking about, is the absence of self in place of the empty space that the mind
assigned as occupied by the self.
You don’t even fucking look there.
THAT’S why you scream it at people.
Why Ciaran fucking HAS to shout it at people.
WHY the same message HAS to be drilled over and over again.
And THAT’S why you do it.
THAT’S why there's no choice but to.
Your mind simply won’t look there if it isn't absolutely forced to or tricked to.
It’s protection of self.
Protection of self. That’s something that self gets very good at once it’s infested every part of your
life.
Hiding completely in plain sight.
You'll hate me for saying this (but fuck you anyway).
I was always looking at the finger pointing at the fucking moon.
Now I'm just looking at the moon.
And there’s no me looking. There’s just looking.

by Ciaran » Tue Sep 21, 2010 12:25 am
Confirmed.
Who are you crediting? And this is disputed, I've been messaged you privately, Rikki and Bobby
have both done outstanding work publicly, especially Bobby in bringing you in at the end.
Which of us was most directly responsible for your liberation?
And welcome to the war, motherfucker. Welcome to the war.

by Kakistos » Tue Sep 21, 2010 12:52 am
Ciaran wrote:
“Confirmed… Which of us was most directly responsible for your liberation?”
Credit where credit's due.
Ciaran wouldn't give "me" the only thing I wanted.
I wanted you to shout at me and tell me everything I had to say was complete fucking bullshit.
Call me a cunt for saying it and tell me to go fuck myself. I wanted this.
I thought it’s what I needed so I could know for sure that I was talking total bullshit.
Bobby listened. Heard what I had to say. And he pointed the way to what I needed. He didn't put
up with the crap I had to say. He called me out when I was talking crap. But he wouldn't give up
on me, and I have undying gratitude for that.
Rikki too played his part. Pointing out things that I said that were right. Letting me see where the
truth was in my own underlying message. I truly appreciate that, too.
Cutting the shit.
Ciaran freed me.

by bobby » Tue Sep 21, 2010 12:59 am
Kakistos wrote:
“Bobby listened. Heard what I had to say. And he pointed the way to what I needed. He
didn't put up with the crap I had to say. He called me out when I was talking crap. But he
wouldn't give up on me and I have undying gratitude for that.”
Welcome. Way to hang in there, bud.
by Ciaran » Tue Sep 21, 2010 1:16 am
Kakistos wrote:
“Ciaran wouldn't give "me" the only thing I wanted.
I wanted you to shout at me and tell me everything I had to say was complete fucking
bullshit.
Call me a cunt for saying it and tell me to go fuck myself. I wanted this.
I thought it’s what I needed so I could know for sure that I was talking total bullshit.”
Great, thanks - and serious props for recognising the fantastic work of bobby and Rikki.
Liberated - read the above quote. This is what was going on inside his head, and we will see this
again. People who want us to 'insult them into liberation'.
We all know that's not how it works. Insults are ENTIRELY SECONDARY.
They are often a useful tool - but with this guy, certainly at the start - NO INSULT would have had
ANY TRACTION.
It would have just frustrated both you and him. Luckily, we caught it. Nice.
Remember this. This is important.
Chapter 4:
How To Become Liberated
How to become liberated

by adiakritos » Wed Sep 22, 2010 12:52 pm
Show me the way. Lead the fucking way. Fine, you're irritated that I don't see it yet. But use some
proper vernacular.
Re: How to become liberated

by Kakistos » Wed Sep 22, 2010 1:28 pm
How to crack it?
They've been doing it for thousands of years.
They've been sitting on mountain tops, going into deserts, into caves.
Everyone that's ever done it, did it the same fucking way.
SIT DOWN, SHUT UP, WORK IT OUT.
THIS is what they didn't have:
"There is no me"
"IS IT TRUE?"
Don't believe it. Don't put faith in it. Don't do anything but ask yourself:
"IS IT TRUE?"
(EVERYTHING ELSE YOU'RE GOING TO READ HERE IS A DISTRACTION. YOU HAVE

ALL YOU NEED.)
Incidentally, because I know you'd ask this (fucking Americans). those people that have been doing
all that time, for those thousands of years?
They just didn't know what they were trying to look at.
Then when they figured it out, they had no fucking idea how to communicate it.
Actually they didn't even know what they had figured out because words don't encapsulate it.
"There is no me." It's a sign post to what you need to see. It's much more, and much less than it
seems.
I have no fucking idea how to communicate it.
Other than to see truth, see lie, and fucking demolish the lie with the strength of my fury at it's lack
of existence.
You ask that people be nice to you.
If that's what you needed, you wouldn't be here. It's as simple as that.
Now fuck off.
Fuck RIGHT off.
GO figure it out.
And come back when you have something worth saying, you complete fucking cunt.
Not when you get it.
JUST when you have something worth saying.
And I'll tear that down for you too.
THIS is the shortest distance between your bullshit and actual fucking honesty.
If you want people to be nice to you, go live your fucking lie of a life.

by Ronztrek » Wed Sep 22, 2010 1:54 pm
adiakritos wrote:
“Show me the way. Lead the fucking way.”
You need to be shown the way and you want to be led? You got to be fucking shitting me. Will it
help if I hold your hand and spoon feed you the truth? What truth? My truth? Why?
WHY?
So that you can believe it?
This is NOT A FUCKING BELIEF. It is not a belief any more than the colour BLUE is a belief.
adiakritos wrote:
“Fine, you're irritated that I don't see it yet.”
Shit for brains, do you think you 'know' this? Do you believe this? You don't know shit.
adiakritos wrote:
“But use some proper vernacular.”
Proper vernacular? Liberated, just get a load of this one?? He's afraid of words. Afraid of getting
hurt. He thinks perhaps his truth comes with its own polished-up, personal vernacular???
For the love of God, we really get the best of them here, don't we?
Well, adiakritos, considering you’re very special, sensitive needs, I found this advice for you in my
very own little handbook guide towards liberation for the elite:
First take your right index finger and stick it all the way, the fuck up your ass. Curve it slightly, pull
it out very slowly trying to cup any lumps you may feel. Now take your finger and stick it deep into
your mouth and try to say, "Thank You Ronztrek, I am now liberated!" Wait a year or two and see
what happens.
Or . . . Shut the fuck up, and get to work. Now. Is there anything else you 'believe' I can do for you?

by maverick09 » Wed Sep 22, 2010 2:37 pm
The only way you can get to see the truth for yourself is through honest inquiry....
Inquire with laser like intensity and honesty clean as a mountain spring - are *you* real ???
The mind will give tons of reasons why *you* are true.... Bullshit.... Don’t believe anything...
Do you need reasons to believe there is a sun??... You know because you know... No reason
needed...
Don't look for any reason/symptom for *your* existence.... Just look if there really is a *you*...
*You* are a fiction created by the mind to give itself some context; nothing more than that...

Maverick, how will I know if I'm headed in the right direction?
Kakistos? Thanks for the first half of the first post.
As for the 2nd half of it along with Ronztrek, it seems like you’re fluctuating between helping and
just venting shit I cannot understand yet.
I'm not sure if it’s helpful at all. It just seems like I'm sifting through a barrage of belligerent
bullshit. I'm not personally affected by it, I just like to take things straight to the point, and I want to
hear something that seems helpful in nature.

adiakritos wrote:
“As for the 2nd half of it along with Ronztrek, it seems like you’re fluctuating between
helping and just venting shit I cannot understand yet.
I'm not sure if it’s helpful at all. It just seems like I'm sifting through a barrage of belligerent
bullshit. I'm not personally affected by it, I just like to take things straight to the point, and I
want to hear something that seems helpful in nature.”
Truth, so soon?
I'm impressed.
There is one thing that I've noticed.
And I think this is actually why Eckhart Tolle and all them other cunts are so useless.
It gets fucking hard to understand that people are accustomed to living the lie.
I mean. This is an absolute game changer.
There isn't a single thing in life that I see the same as I did before.
Everything is so rich and simultaneously purposeful and meaningless.
But that’s another digression.
You hit the nail on the head. Stuff you don’t understand yet.
It’s not your fault or anything. You just don’t see it yet. What is your fault is that you’re not
looking.
REALLY everything you need is in my first post.
Roll it around for a while and come back when you have something to say.
Oh, and your thanks are less than necessary. They are contemptible.
GO SEE, then come back and say thanks. I have done NOTHING, and I can do NOTHING.
This is entirely up to you.
The Work
What’s the "work" I keep reading about?
Right now I'm at the point where I want to question every fucking thing. I have the phrase. "Prove
it!" echoing any time I make a statement or hear one.
Re: The Work

Fuck you.
Re: The Work

by Startears » Wed Sep 22, 2010 7:25 pm
adiakritos wrote:
“What’s the "work" I keep reading about?”
You 'see' you don't exist ...there is no you steering the bandwagon.
That is the work being referred to.
So do it.
Re: The Work

adiakritos wrote:
“Right now I'm at the point where I want to question every fucking thing. I have the phrase
"Prove it!" echoing any time I make a statement or hear one.”
Oooooooooo. Someone’s actually questioning the bullshit they’re been swallowing down their
whole life. Props.
Without context, I can’t actually say what "work" you're referring to.
But it is probably the "work" of liberating the human race.
I know it sounds lofty. But, well . . . When you see what we see . . .You'll know.
In the context of, "Get back to work," or, "Start working on it."
We're talking about what I told you to do.
Sitting down, shutting up, and working it out, then coming back when you have something worth
saying.
You just came with something worth saying. That’s good.
But did you do the sitting down and working it out?
Though I suspect the idea of "working it out" is another thing that only liberated can actually know
how to do, because we've done it.
Basically, that just means stare at the one assumption that you've carried through your entire life and
ask yourself if it’s true.
Do you actually exist?
Working it out is the process that you go through. I don’t mean number crunch it, just look. Is it
true? In your actual life? Find out.
I mean, it's not rocket science.
You wanna know if something is true or not?
You just look at it with total honesty and truth becomes self-evident.
Discard beliefs and understandings; just look at that one isolated object and see.
Friend of mine asked me, "Do I exist?" I could only answer, "I can’t really say – you tell me."
Then she asked, "Do you exist?" To which I replied, "What? No. Of course I don’t; don’t be
fucking stupid. Eww. I wouldn't want to exist if I could."
This is what we mean when we say find your own answer.
When you have your answer, whatever that may be,
you'll know you looked with total honesty.
From where we are, the thought that we exist is fucking preposterous.
Probably about as preposterous as our idea that we don’t is to you.
ALL of this is distraction from the one thing you need to do.
Sit down, shut up, and work it out.
I don’t exist.
Is it true?
Re: The Work

Is the "existence" you refer to physical or cognitive?
Cognitively, I know that any sense of "I" is a constructed one. For example it's more accurate to say,
"Nick has leadership qualities," instead of saying, "Nick is a leader".
The "working it out" part to me so far simply means sitting down and placing each assumption that
I have in my mental spotlight and questioning it.
Re: The Work

The negative reaction I get, the impulse to say, "FUCK YOU!” to Ciaran comes from existing. This
is fucking genius. I see now.
Re: The Work

adiakritos wrote:
“The negative reaction I get, the impulse to say, "FUCK YOU!” to Ciaran comes from
existing. This is fucking genius. I see now.”
You see fuck-all. No, that comes from an emotional response to Ciaran’s responses and actions as
his physical body moves through this world.
We're talking about the actual existence of a ‘self’ that is experiencing life. Ciaran’s just part of life;
there’s nothing standing before that experience, experiencing it. It’s just an experience, it’s just
there. Same with you. Or ‘you’ if you want to get technical.
I mean, look. On some level everyone knows there is no "I" when they say, "I am this," or, "I am
that."
But the point is that people LIVE through it.
Like literally. They think >I AM< actually means something.
Think about how this started.
A massive argument between you, Ciaran, and I about your idea of, "I am American"
That’s what we saw in the argument that made us so expert in decimating it.
It’s the absolute core of LIE.
YOU are not American, because YOU don't exist. There is indeed ‘being American’, but there’s no
you. Right? America refers to a patch of land, a set of written principles. You, on the other hand,
don’t refer to anything.
And you might say that America is just a label on that patch of land, sure. But there is actual land
there; there are actual principles. But with you? There’s nothing there; nothing that can be called
you in any sense.
It’s not a label for the body; that’s not how we use it. How we use it is very specific. It’s a specific
term with a highly specific meaning – that thing which experiences reality. But there’s nothing
experiencing reality, because nothing can be contained outside it.
There is only a body that was born.
The mind, as a response to looking at life itself through a matrix of cause and effect, assumed a
cause and an effect for life, as such. But there’s no cause, no effect. Nothing happens outside the
present moment, so there can’t be anything outside it experiencing it.
So you get this label - "self" - for something that wasn't there – it was never there.
But that was just the brain doing what it does.
Labelling and associating. Throwing up patterns. Showing you the world in terms of cause and
effect.
It's not real.
YOU live through this. Your mind creates what is essentially a lens for you to look through where
there should be no lens.
YOU, YOUR life, YOUR feelings, everything YOU own. It is a lie. It is all a lie.
All that shit’s there – life, feelings, everything – but it’s not yours; there’s no you to own any of it.
This is what I see, and I implore you don’t know, believe, or accept it.
We're just saying. Look at it.
We're saying it harshly because there are 1,000 different ways to fudge this, to get lost, to build a
little world of freedom-themed bullshit, to tell yourself you’re looking when you’re just spinning
bullshit and stressing out over some crap that you’ve fucking invented.
And plus? The self is so embedded in everything that means anything to you that you don’t want it
to be true.
Your instinct is to ‘protect the self,’ to ignore this, to go back to sleep, to keep accumulating things
and live your days comfortably, safe in the knowledge that YOU exist.
And if you want to live a lie, like a fucking coward, fine.
Don’t look; fuck off back to your lie of a life.
Don’t look; just keep bringing more pain and suffering into everything you touch.
Don’t look; just watch as everything that matters in your life gets twisted and destroyed.
Don’t look; don’t even bother to see if there is truth.
Don’t look; don’t even bother to know that there can be truth. And that you can see it if you just
look.
There is stunning beauty, clarity and truth in life that you cannot see because of that fucking lens.
But fuck it. Who needs a better life anyway?
Chapter 5:
Robotic Mind
Robotic mind
by adiakritos » Thu Sep 23, 2010 8:40 pm
The more I think this way the more it occurs to me the thoughts in my mind become somewhat
robotic.
"I am nothing more than matter."
"The man I call my father."
"There is pain/an itch/sensation on this part of the body."
"There is no me, there are thoughts, emotions, ideas within the brain. Just like everyone else."
"Meaning is a product of language. Language makes it possible to create abstract mental creations.
Without language the only meaning to guide would be sensation, pain, pleasure...etc."
"Who is thinking/breathing/feeling? No one, it's just happening within the mind."
The question "What am I?" becomes irrational. It’s more accurate to say "What is this?" while
mentally pointing to my body. Then the answers would proceed to be -> A Man -> Human -> matter
-> atoms -> energy -> ?
There are just thoughts. There are just bodily sensations along the shoulders.
It’s like to say "I", "my","me"...etc is inappropriate now. Logically it’s more accurate to simple state
what is since, unlike before, there is nothing possessing it.
Instead of saying I am feeling stressed, it seems more precise to say I feel strange. There is tension,
there is uncertainty within the body...
What is there to make of this?
Re: Robotic mind

Another thought was, "The cursing and insults from the Arena hold no value since they are not
directed at anything. They are meaningless words."
However I still feel a little tension at the thought of it.
I suppose when death seems meaningless, when insults and ridicule is incomprehensible...etc. that
can be a sign I've arrived.
Re: Robotic mind
by bobby » Thu Sep 23, 2010 8:53 pm
adiakritos wrote:
“Instead of saying I am feeling stressed, I feel strange, it seems more precise to say There is
tension, there is uncertainty within the body...”
Okay, then what is "you?"
You can't just say you don't exist; you can't just take our word for it.
And don't say, "It just makes sense."
You have to understand why you thought there was a "you" in the first place.
You did not exist before you were born; therefore, life was not given to you.
What is this illusion of "you" then?
Re: Robotic mind

by Kakistos » Thu Sep 23, 2010 9:07 pm
I call bullshit on this one.
Meh, he can either keep deluding himself or actually see truth. Up to him. I've entertained this
long enough.
Adiakritos, you're full of shit. You're describing what you feel that the idea of no self SHOULD be
like.
I've seen this before.
"I'M LIKE A ROBOT!"
It’s irrelevant fucking cowardice.
You're deluding yourself, and this is a load of cock.
See truth.
This is you wanting to believe it. That’s like doubly pathetic; you don’t even honestly disagree.
You’re convincing yourself you see it so you can join the fucking freedom club.
THIS IS REAL. THIS IS REAL FREEDOM.
You SEE it, or it means SHIT. If not just you’re fucking with us.
Everything you fucking say here is totally seething with lies.
You don’t fucking exist to feel like this.
There is emotion. No one to feel it. JUST the experience.
Don’t try to convince yourself of anything.
This is fucking Science 101.
Stop trying to prove that it’s true, and just see if it is or not.
Look at it. That’s all.
I don’t exist.
Is it true?
Re: Robotic mind

I don't clearly know yet. I believe I partly understand it conceptually. However I do not yet see the
'me'.
Re: Robotic mind

adiakritos wrote:
“I don't clearly know yet. I believe I partly understand it conceptually. However I do not yet
see the 'me'.”
What the fuck is wrong with you? Are you totally fucking stupid? Are you just not fucking reading
this? What the fuck?
Why are you even telling us this? What the fuck is wrong with you?
Of course you don’t ‘see the me’ you stupid, worthless piece of shit. It’s not there to fucking see.
"ME" is a pointer that points at nothing.
You have all you need. Now fuck off, and work it out.
Come back when you have something worth saying.
KEEP coming back when you have something worth saying.
Re: Robotic mind
I'm trying. I really am.
Re: Robotic mind

adiakritos wrote:
“I'm trying. I really am.”
For fuck's sake, stop trying and just do it.
Re: Robotic mind

K, walked around for a lil while, and was like, "FUCK! Ok, I'll pay attention to what's in my mind.
And find the 'self'"...
And then I heard music. I kept paying attention and when I'd look up I'd see all the trees out in front
of me. At some point in my walk, the beginning of it, I started to feel that satori-like sensation but I
was like, "FUCK that, I keep hearing that it doesn't mean shit"
I expect to feel a "oneness" with everything. I don't.
It makes sense to me, even though I've heard it articulated before, that I don't think. There are just
thoughts. I found myself thinking this.
Re: Robotic mind

adiakritos wrote:
"FUCK! Ok, I'll pay attention to what's in my mind. And find the 'self'"...
What's in your mind is irrelevant. You will get lost in thought.
I repeat... YOU WILL GET LOST IN THOUGHT.
adiakritos wrote:
“I started to feel that satori-like sensation but I was lik,e "FUCK that, I keep hearing that it
doesn't mean shit"
It doesn't.
If you feel some bullshit sensation like that. It means...
YOU ARE DOING SOMETHING WRONG.
adiakritos wrote:
“I expect to feel a "oneness" with everything. I don't.”
FUCK. FUCK. FUCK. FUCK. FUCK. FUCK.
That is your motherfucking problem right there... You are expecting a fucking Zen delivery from on
high, this is fucking bullshit. REALITY. LOOK AT REALITY. THERE’S NO FUCKING YOU.
You’re reaching for some bullshit fucking dream, and you’re leading yourself astray.
And, no, you will not feel at oneness with everything. That is a fucking myth. Just like the Tooth
Fairy and the Loch Ness monster.
adiakritos wrote:
“It makes sense to me, even though I've heard it articulated before,”
FUCK. AREN'T YOU LISTENING?
IT'S NOT SUPPOSED TO MAKE SENSE.
YOU HAVE TO SEE IT.
HOW MANY FUCKING TIMES DO WE HAVE TO SAY THAT?
adiakritos wrote:
“I don't think.”
No shit. There are thoughts, but you do not drive them.
YOU DO NOT EXIST.
Re: Robotic mind

adiakritos wrote:
“K, walked around for a lil while, and was like, "FUCK! Ok, I'll pay attention to what's in
my mind. And find the 'self'"...”
Don't think, look.
adiakritos wrote:
“and I heard music. I kept paying attention and when I'd look up I'd see all the trees out in
front of me. At some point in my walk, the beginning of it, I started to feel that satori like
sensation but I was like, "FUCK that, I keep hearing that it doesn't mean shit"
Don't pay attention to this stuff; it's distraction. ALL of it is distraction.
adiakritos wrote:
“I expect to feel a "oneness" with everything. I don't.”
You'll see how stupid this is when you're liberated. It's irrelevant.
adiakritos wrote:
“It makes sense to me, even though I've heard it articulated before, that I don't think. There
are just thoughts. I found myself thinking this.”
Were you thinking this?
Was there a YOU thinking this?
OR was there just thought?
Don't let yourself get distracted.
Don't expect or believe anything you find.
Just ask is it true.
Nothing else is relevant.
LITERALLY nothing else is even slightly relevant.
You can build your opinions and beliefs and association when you're free.
But right now YOU are a slave and YOU cant be trusted.
So you have to stop with the distractions, OK?
I don't exist.
Is it true?
Simply;
NOTHING else
NOTHING more
NOTHING less
You don't HAVE to see anything.
Only one of these two things can be true.
1. I exist
2. I don't exist
Just look until you know which one is actually true.
Re: Robotic mind

by adiakritos » Fri Sep 24, 2010 12:25 am
Bobby, you misread what I said.
This is what I meant to write:
"I don't think. There are just thoughts."
Re: Robotic mind

by Kakistos » Fri Sep 24, 2010 12:32 am
Was more looking at that last sentence:
adiakritos wrote:
"I found myself thinking this"
Let me ask you a question.
Did YOU find YOURSELF thinking this?
Is there a thinker, thinking these thoughts?
Or just the thoughts?
ONLY be honest.
Re: Robotic mind

There's only thoughts.
Re: Robotic mind

by bobby » Fri Sep 24, 2010 1:07 am
adiakritos wrote:
“Bobby, you misread what I said.
This is what I meant to write:
"I don't think. There are just thoughts."”
What? You want a cookie?
I didn't miss it. I just know you have no idea what it means.
You are parroting.
These words do not deserve my attention until you know what the fuck that means.
Re: Robotic mind

adiakritos wrote:
“...there's only thoughts.”
Keep looking.
You don't exist.
Is it true?
Dive into it. Nothing else matters now.
IS it fucking true?
Come bring it. You're really close.
IS IT TRUE?
When you look, what the fuck do you see?
Re: Robotic mind

I see nothing when I look, yet I feel like breaking. Like denying something.
Re: Robotic mind
adiakritos wrote:
“I see nothing when I look, yet I feel like breaking. Like denying something.”
Elaborate. And don't fucking talk about how you feel. How you feel is irrelevant.
Re: Robotic mind

adiakritos wrote:
“I see nothing when I look, yet I feel like breaking. Like denying something.”
Do you know how much lie I see in this short post?
If it feels like breaking, then let it break and push past it.
If you're denying anything, it means you have a preconception about whether or not it's true.
You're trying to believe.
THAT’S not the point. STOP TRYING TO BELIEVE IT.
You LOOK with HONESTY.
"I don't exist" isn't some fucking mantra or some shit.
We drive it in so that you'll actually look because you don't really want to look. You just want – like
everyone else – to wallow in ideas and believe certain things because, like everyone else, you think
that if you get your beliefs in a certain order, that makes you a better person.
That's fucking bullshit.
Believe NOTHING we say. LOOK.
I can give you no answers.
This is totally about you finding your own.
LOOK TILL YOU SEE.
That's all.
Re: Robotic mind
Something that totally trips me up is the question, "Who drives the mind?" WTF?!
If there is no-one to drive it, then there is only instinct.
Emotions mean nothing in this process. Ok. I'll ignore emotions.
All that is left is... this body. The sky, the solar system. It's the same shit. The mind is what creates
significance; meaning.
In all honesty, I see the self as a malleable changeable mental concept of self, constructed loosely
by reference experiences.
Those "references" themselves are created by a pre-existing lens of interpretation. Where the fuck
does this "interpreter" comes from? I have no clue. Is it even real? I do not know either way.
This is the point where I want to just fucking look and see. Looking earlier today, I saw thoughts. I
saw ideas. That's what I failed to articulate. I walked around the house knowing that these are
simply thoughts.
I don't like to refer to myself at all because, again, it fucking is irrelevant.
Later on I posted some shit in this thread where I mentioned "I found myself thinking this." Once
called out on it there was second guessing. From knowing to guessing...
I don't want to be parroting either. God damn I don't want to stop until I am free.
Re: Robotic mind

adiakritos wrote:
“Something that totally trips me up is the question "who drives the mind" WTF?!
If there is no-one to drive it then there is only instinct.”
Now you're thinking. Good. But what the fuck is this about instinct? No. You're still looking for
some cause. Next you'll be saying “the self is really instinct” or some shit.
Instinct is just another part of reality, of life. And there's no cause for reality, for life. Everything
just is. There's no you experiencing it.
adiakritos wrote:
“All that is left is... this body. The sky, the solar system. It's the same shit. The mind is what
creates significance; meaning.”
Irrelevant. And NO.
Significance and meaning are, AGAIN, just PART OF REALITY. Stop FUCKING AROUND
trying to BE A CLEVER PERSON.
Just FUCKING LOOK. There IS NO YOU.
adiakritos wrote:
“In all honesty I see the self as a malleable changeable mental concept of self, constructed
loosely by reference experiences. Those "references" themselves are created by a pre-
existing lens of interpretation. Where the fuck this "interpreter" comes from..”
Fuck yeah! Good man. Good man.
This is much more solid, a much better response – but you still assume the mind needs an
interpreter.
Imagine what it's like to be a baby opening its eyes for the very first time. A blank slate.
No you to sense; just senses.
No you to think; just thought.
No you to name or label things; just the naming and labelling.
adiakritos wrote:
“God damn I don't want to stop until I am free.”
That's what I like to hear.
Now get to work, motherfucker. I want to see you on that list.
Re: Robotic mind

adiakritos wrote:
“Something that totally trips me up is the question "who drives the mind" WTF?!”
No one.
adiakritos wrote:
“If there is no-one to drive it, then there is only instinct.”
More than that, but basically, yeah.
adiakritos wrote:
“Emotions mean nothing in this process. Ok. I'll ignore emotions.”
Good
adiakritos wrote:
“All that is left is... this body. The sky, the solar system. It's the same shit. The mind is what
creates significance; meaning.”
Irrelevant.
adiakritos wrote:
“In all honesty I see the self as a malleable changeable mental concept of self, constructed
loosely by reference experiences.”
Word.
adiakritos wrote:
“Those "references" themselves are created by a pre-existing lens of interpretation.”
This is worth talking about.
adiakritos wrote:
“Where the fuck this "interpreter" comes from? I have no clue.”
Therein lies the lies.
adiakritos wrote:
“Is it even real?”
Nope
adiakritos wrote:
“I do not know either way.”
I do. Keep going
adiakritos wrote:
“This is the point where I want to just fucking look and see.”
Good, do it.
adiakritos wrote:
“Looking earlier today, I saw thoughts. I saw ideas. That's what I failed to articulate. I
walked around the house knowing that these are simply thoughts.”
What else could they be?
Literally what else COULD they be?
Nothing. Thought for the sake of thought.
Ideas for the sake of ideas. There is truth here. Ideas for the sake of ideas. That's it. It's just
patterns, that's all. Patterns the brain's throwing up. It's not your brain. There is no you, fuck, just
look.
adiakritos wrote:
Irrelevant. Keep clear. What's irrelevant is how we talk about this. Getting all hung up on grammar
doesn't mean shit. So don't. Just look at the reality of actual life as you experience it – there's no
you experiencing it, there's just the experience. Look.
adiakritos wrote:
“Later on I posted some shit in this thread where I mentioned "I found myself thinking this."
Once called out on it there was second guessing. From knowing to guessing...”
EVERYTHING you know is in question here.
IT CAN’T BE TRUSTED TO BE TRUE.
IT CANNOT be considered part of this, and is irrelevant.
adiakritos wrote:
“I don't want to be parroting either. God damn I don't want to stop until I am free.”
Irrelevant.
JUST keep going. Fucking own it.
IS IT TRUE?
1 Purpose.
0 Distractions.
SAY SOMETHING TRUE, I fucking DARE you.
SAY IT. What do you see when you look?
DON’T FUCKING LET ME DOWN NOW, YOU CUNT.
JUST FUCKING LOOK.
Re: Robotic mind

by StepVheN » Fri Sep 24, 2010 3:31 am
adiakritos wrote:
“Something that totally trips me up is the question "who drives the mind" WTF?!
If there is no-one to drive it, then there is only instinct.
Emotions mean nothing in this process. Ok. I'll ignore emotions.
All that is left is... this body. The sky, the solar system. It's the same shit. The mind is what
creates significance; meaning.
In all honesty I see the self as a malleable changeable mental concept of self, constructed
loosely by reference experiences.
Those "references" themselves are created by a pre-existing lens of interpretation. Where the
fuck this "interpreter" comes from? I have no clue. Is it even real? I do not know either way.
This is the point where I want to just fucking look and see. Looking earlier today, I saw
thoughts. I saw ideas. That's what I failed to articulate. I walked around the house knowing
that these are simply thoughts.
Later on I posted some shit in this thread where I mentioned "I found myself thinking this."
Once called out on it there was second guessing. From knowing to guessing...
I don't want to be parroting either. God damn I don't want to stop until I am free.”
Ahh, shut up and pull your hand out of your pants. We don't need internet hard men hanging round
wanking all over the truth, we need actual honest courageous people.
If you're not honest you won't be liberated... You seem to be keen to prove your liberation...... I've
never met a liberated who gave a fuck what I thought.
How about FUCK your Jed Mckenna shite ... thank fuck I never read this shite.
FUCK Eckhart Tolle.
And more importantly, fuck any pussyfart who thinks reading this shit is equal to liberation.
I have no trust in your bullshit and will test you at every fucking turn fuck head. Hit me with some
graceful truth or fuck off. I will haunt you till you are wiped from this Arena. I can not abide a liar
Re: Robotic mind

When I look, satori happens. But so do thoughts. Then nothing. Then I'm just fucking staring at my
hands. Then I notice a vein in my hand.
Then a realization that there is no one behind the thoughts, just the thoughts happening. There’s a
distinction between thoughts and .... nothingness, sorta. Just this computer screen.
Then fucking Katy Perry's songs resonating in the background of my mind.
Then stopping with ever reference to a self. Even correcting a sentence to be more accurate.
Then noticing some weird noticing a kind of fluctuation from thinking to seeing.
A question to ask "What really is true"
Back to thoughts happening and seeing them instead of believing them or listening to them...
asking "is it true?" then "what is true?" Then "what is definitely real"
The fan is spinning, my heart is beating.... < ahhh! there's no 'my' ... is it true?
Feel frustrated... know it's irrelevant... there is presently frustration.. then space.
Wondering if the thoughts will stop and knowing will be primary...
Re: Robotic mind

adiakritos wrote:
“When I look, satori happens. But so do thoughts. Then nothing. Then I'm just fucking
staring at my hands. Then I notice a vein in my hand.
Then a realization that there is no one behind the thoughts, just the thoughts happening.
There a distinction between thoughts and .... nothingness sorta. Just this computer screen.
Wondering if the thoughts will stop and knowing will be primary...”
Oh great another babbling idiot on the cusp of liberation who needs one of the "liberated" to push
him over the edge........
It doesn't work that way.
Fuck off and pick up a pen and paper.
Write with no intention of holding onto the document you produce and chronicle this shit; draw
conclusions, work it out.
Then throw that piece of paper away, get back on here, and do something worthwhile with your
liberation. Until then I don't want to hear any more of your self-indulgent, schizophrenic, half-
baked, pseudo-spiritual bullshit.
Re: Robotic mind

adiakritos wrote:
“When I look, satori happens. But so do thoughts. Then nothing. Then I'm just fucking
staring at my hands. Then I notice a vein in my hand.
Then a realization that there is no one behind the thoughts, just the thoughts happening.
There a distinction between thoughts and .... nothingness sorta. Just this computer screen.
Wondering if the thoughts will stop and knowing will be primary...”
* face palm *
Just when I thought we were getting somewhere I see this crap. That's what this is, crap.
And if I hear the word satori one more fucking time.. Fuck.
Go back and read my last post
Re: Robotic mind
I just recited what was happening. That's not the same as seeing I suppose.
Re: Robotic mind

Where do I direct my focus?
Re: Robotic mind

adiakritos wrote:
“Where do I direct my focus?”
Microsoft Windows (95-7) : Top Corner Left. Click the X button and fuck off.
Mac (osX) Top left corner. hit the X button and fuck off
Re: Robotic mind

Okay, so seeing what's happening is not the same as seeing truth...
Re: Robotic mind

adiakritos wrote:
“Okay so seeing what's happening is not the same as seeing truth...”
No. Shit.
What you're seeing is a first glimpse of honesty.
I stared at my hands for a fucking hour in absolute awe of the honesty in the experience.
It was a distraction. It was a step forward but not one I should have stayed with.
Probably the first honest experience of my life
BUT A FUCKING DISTRACTION.
You're done with the first half all you need is the second.
Is it true?
THAT is where you "shift your focus".
Is it true?
Is it true?
Is it true?
Is it true?
Is it true?
Is it true?
Is it true?
Is it true?
Is it true?
Is it true?
Is it true?
Is it true?
Is it true?
Is it true?
Is it true?
Is it true?
Is it true?
Is it true?
Is it true?
Is it true?
Is it true?
Is it true?
Is it true?
Is it true?
Is it true?
Is it true?
Is it true?
Is it true?
Is it true?
Is it true?
Is it true?
Is it true?
Is it true?
Is it true?
Is it true?
Is it true?
Is it true?
Is it true?
Is it true?
Is it true?
Is it true?
Is it true?
Is it true?
Is it true?
Is it true?
Re: Robotic mind
adiakritos wrote:
“Okay, so seeing what's happening is not the same as seeing truth...”
It's the difference between understanding the concept of genocide, and the feeling you get when a
nationalist general pumps a slug into your gut and drops you screaming into a hole on top of your
dead, raped sister.
Re: Robotic mind

adiakritos wrote:
“Okay, so seeing what's happening is not the same as seeing truth...”
FUCK FUCK FUCK.
Now I'm just fucking pissed. Are you fucking listening? We have told you all you fucking need, and
we have fucking told you that.
All you need, you need nothing more. Nothing.
Anything else we tell you will only serve to distract you.
Sit down, shut the fuck up, and work it out.
DO NOT COME BACK UNTIL YOU HAVE SOMETHING THAT'S NOT GOING TO PISS ME
OFF.
I am not your mother, I am not going to fucking spoon-feed you.
Re: Robotic mind

StepVheN wrote:
“It's the difference between understanding the concept of genocide, and the feeling you get
when a nationalist general pumps a slug into your gut and drops you screaming into a hole
on top of your dead, raped sister.”
Excuse me while I pick my fucking jaw up off the floor.

That was just fucking glorious.
Adiakritos,
Go away. Get off forums.
Get off the internet.
Go out of your house.
Stare deeply into the place that your mind doesn't want you to see.
There is a space there.
An empty space where your mind says there is a YOU.
This is THE TRUTH.

.
This is what I saw.
This is the only way I could put it in words.
You will see when you see, when you LOOK. You STILL haven't fucking LOOKED. WHY?
When you see, it will stay. You cannot UNSEE what you've SEEN.
If it doesn't stay, you didn't see. So fucking look, and see the fucking thing.
Is it fucking true?
Is it fucking true?
Is it fucking true?
Is it fucking true?
Is it fucking true?
Is it fucking true?
Is it fucking true?
Is it fucking true?
Is it fucking true?
Is it fucking true?
Is it fucking true?
Is it fucking true?
Is it fucking true?
Is it fucking true?
Is it fucking true?
Is it fucking true?
Is it fucking true?
Is it fucking true?
Is it fucking true?
Is it fucking true?
Is it fucking true?
Is it fucking true?
Is it true, you stupid fuck?
Re: Robotic mind

by adiakritos » Fri Sep 24, 2010 12:48 pm
What did you stare into, that your mind didn't want to look into?
Someplace in this thread someone said something like, "It's fucking Science 101"...
As a result I'm looking at what I'd hate to happen, or things that have happened that I retch at more
deeply. Seeing it with a "Science 101" place. Looking at [myself] from a Science 101 place.
Re: Robotic mind

by Kakistos » Fri Sep 24, 2010 1:00 pm
adiakritos wrote:
“What did you stare into, that your mind didn't want to look into?”
You'll see when you see.
Someplace in this thread someone said something like, "It's fucking science 101"...
Because it is.
It's emotionless,
It's without belief or attachment
It's looking to see if that one assumption that you've had for your whole life is true or not.
adiakritos wrote:
“As a result I'm looking at what I'd hate to happen, or things that have happened that I
retch at more deeply.”
Emotional response. Irrelevant.
adiakritos wrote:
“Seeing it with a "science 101" place. Looking at [myself] from a Science 101 place.”
This ain't bad. Just make sure you actually fucking do it, instead of just talking shit at us, which is
what you've done since you got here.
You're still getting bogged down in distractions.
And I'm afraid I've added more than my share.
But when you see something as distraction: call it that and move on.
This is training to let you lead your brain to a place of honest and original thought.
I swear to god you can crack this on your own.
You've bought the bicycle
You've put it together
You've read the instructions
You've watched the videos about riding it.
You took 2 days of theory classes on riding it.
The only thing you haven't done is get on the thing.
Just get on the bike.
What do you see?
Re: Robotic mind

Just now I see everything as just passing through the body. Ideas, emotions, the drive behind I
speak, I feel, I hear, I think...etc are just separate things passing through.
The collection (recollection) of these things seem to unconsciously become like a stack of paper and
thus form a singular thing called "I"....
I'm working it out, and it seems like it's falling into place. With what I've got now I'll explore and
come back when I see things more clearly.
Re: Robotic mind

NO ONE POST A FUCKING THING NOW.
HE'S ON HIS OWN
FUCKING NO ONE!
Re: Robotic mind

I'm like a vacuum cleaner, picking shit up everywhere I go. Then saying, "Look! Look at this
unique lump of trash! This is me! This is what defines me!" When in reality I'm just a tool, sucking
it all up and storing it. The vacuum is and always stays the same. It's the same as any other form of
a vacuum cleaner...
The trash can get cleaned and replaced over and over until I realize it's not the trash that is me. I'm
the fucking vacuum. So instead of wandering aimlessly and picking everything up and making
sense of it, I can be more like a light, wandering as I may, seeing the walls, the floors and the
particles of trash along the way for what they are. Particles of trash. Walls. Floors. Carpet. Etc.
Be back later today. Probably sedated. I'm getting my wisdom teeth removed. I feel lighter. I don't
really "think" this is how it is now. I just see it as it is. This is what it fucking is.
Question me. Refine me. Make sure I'm not fooling myself.
Re: Robotic mind

adiakritos wrote
“I'm like a vacuum cleaner, picking shit up everywhere I go. Then saying, "Look! Look at
this unique lump of trash! This is me! This is what defines me!" when in reality I'm just a to
tool sucking it all up and storing it.”
Now, this is interesting.
adiakritos wrote
“The vacuum is and always stays the same. It's the same as any other form of a vacuum
cleaner...”
Getting a little off the wall, but ok, I can see what you're saying.
Bring it into reality. Not just some concept in your head.
Talk about something you can touch or feel.
adiakritos wrote
“The trash can get cleaned and and replaced over and over until I realize it's not the trash
that is me. I'm the fucking vacuum.”
FUCKING TRUTH!
adiakritos wrote
“So instead of wandering aimlessly and picking everything up and making sense of it, I can
be more like a light, wandering as I may, seeing the walls, the floors and the particles of
trash along the way for what they are. particles of trash. walls. floors.. carpet...etc”
Stop talking about what YOU can be and just start being.
The veil of lie is SOOO fucking thin now I can smell the truth here.
This is what it fucking is.
TRUTH!
adiakritos wrote
Question me. Refine me. Make sure I'm not fooling myself.
There is no you to fool. There never was.
Pick something and talk about it. Something real.
Go wax lyrical.
Less allegorist bullshit. Just real and true. Simple.
The only question I can ask that really encompasses it is...
What do you see?
It's all about you, brother. The truth will guide from there.
Re: Robotic mind

Ok, everything is just passing through.
Like these thoughts, these ideas, concepts . . . Everything is just passing through.
I don't own it because it's just passing through. There's nothing to own it. It just is what it is.
I want to use more metaphors but fiiiine. Still I mean, damn, I've already said it.. Like say my
family fucking dies. Yes, they died. Yes, I feel sad. But – there is just sadness. It's fucking sad. No
one owns it, and so it can be felt fully, but it doesn't crush you.
There is no, “I'm sad,” because there's no I other than the body that feels it. And it's not my body.
So when you guys were saying something like, "Oh hey, do you exist? -> Eww Fuck no! I wouldn't
exist if I could! -> Do I exist? hmm well I can't really tell yet."
I was listening to my mother talking on the phone and thought, "Does she exist? How would I
know? Listen to the words that she speaks because it's all in the mind anyways."
I feel comfortable saying whatever now; I don't have to speak about it in a special way – because it
makes no difference when I refer to me as me or I or what-fucking-ever because I just know that
there isn't anything other than this human that's being referring to. No-one owns the human. There's
just the human.
Like I'm free to conceptualize while simply knowing they are just thoughts, concepts, in and of
them selves.
I do not own them because that is impossible. They just exist.
They are created and forgotten but never owned, just . . . carried. Held on to like trying to hold sand
in a bag with holes.
I realized that without a self, it's possible to be unbiased as long as there is focus.
I was like, "How can I test it? What do you people FUCKING MEAN BY "IS IT TRUE?"???!
And then I realized... with any statement I make, if that question were to follow, it would lead me
back to its source . . .
"I think that blah blah blah" IS IT TRUE? As in do *I* think this? Or is it just a thought?
What is?
Fuck man . . . Everything is. It is as it is. There's no owning it, Because there's nothing to own it.
LOL - it just happens, passes.
I don't feel hyper-focused, per se. Just clearer about shit. I don't know - everything is just passing
through. hahahahaha
Re: Robotic mind
Every expectation you've had about what this is, is totally erroneous.
That said. Welcome to the war.
Bathe in truth. It's the only advice I can give you.
The lies will twist you with hatred. But you have to know they are lies.
Read the Arena again. Let the words of every liberated that's ever posted resonate through you.
Truth is beautiful. But it's FAR too rare.
But I'm talking like a cunt again.
Take a break; settle down.
RELAX. You're done.
Re: Robotic mind

I wish I'd have read that earlier. the part about relaxing. God.
I'm gonna go to bed. Just got my wisdom teeth removed, and, holy fuck; it's beginning to hurt.
Re: Robotic mind

Grand. You've found truth now.
I expect a big rant about what it's like and what you're insight is asap.
It's kinda a tradition. Make it glorious with truth.
Re: Robotic mind

by bobby » Fri Sep 24, 2010 9:36 pm
adiakritos wrote:
So when you guys were saying something like "Oh hey, do you exist? -> Eww Fuck no! I wouldn't
exist if I could! -> Do I exist? hmm well I can't really tell yet."
Slow down there Kakistos.
Adiakritos, let's hear it motherfucker... I want more. Speak truth. Spill your guts.
I want you on that list. Convince me that you're not just parroting
Be clear now; none of this back and forth shit.
Also, credit you liberator.
GO NOW.
Re: Robotic mind

Sure thing, sir.
Everything is simply happening. Thoughts, emotions . . . They all run through. There's no
ownership. The lie is that there is a self. There is no fucking self: just emotions and thoughts, ideas
or whatever - it's just mental shit.
A story? Just that. A story. No one owns it.
The best way for me to articulate it is like a vacuum. I can go around sucking shit up off the ground
and collect a bag of garbage and in an attempt to identify my self I can say, "This here is what
defines me," when in reality all that shit can get cleaned out with a hard enough crack to the head,
and I'm back to zero. I'm really the goddamn vacuum. With the capacity to suck shit up. Just not
point at the collection and using it to be anything more than what is.
There is no thinker, just an awareness. Just a body, and a brain for rationalizing. But none of that is
unique. The thoughts, emotions, ideas, concepts or whatever is equivalent to the trash that gets
picked up through a vacuum. I'm not the trash, I'm the vacuum.
Now it makes sense that thoughts and emotions and all that shit is irrelevant. It's more like tracing
the source of all these things. They exist but they just happen within the body. That's about all it is.
I've articulated this over and over already with some of the people I know and so I'm a bit tired of
going over it again and again.
Another topic . . . If my family all dies... That would be sad. But I'm not sad, There is just sadness.
I see how viewing everything through a self creates a life of a lie. It's so sad because I see my
friends, so scared of what people think, pretend to be macho n shit. Constantly grasping at new
things to add to their self-esteem. There is no self to esteem. If only they could see that. They would
be free of all the unnecessary suffering.
Possessions, I realized how content I am sitting in the car, allowing all these thoughts to pass
through me. Some Eckhart Tolle tidbits passed through and I understood what is meant by it
whoever I chose to simply let it pass.
I still feel emotion. I still think. I still get angry or whatever. I just know that those simply exist.
They are what they are, and that's it.
About 5 and half hours ago I got my wisdom teeth removed and was in a fucking world of pain
when I got home. I took a pill, grabbed an ice pack, and tried keep my mind off of the pain for some
time.
It's like everything is the same and yet I see it so differently.
It's nice being able to sit and simply allow everything to pass through. But right now I don't really
enjoy the pain happening, so I've been trying to direct my focus onto sound or a candle, or whatever
. . . Anything to reduce the pain from my consciousness.
I was reading this book called Fire in the Belly, and, after this, I realized how there is no need for a
"rite of passage" because there is no self that's turning into 'man'. That's pretty much what the
beginning of the book is about. Mentally becoming a 'man'.. There is nothing but experiences,
references to collect and use to say, "This here means I'm a man.”
I feel sharper, different from people who hold a self on references. Like it's why I stay quiet when
they talk about things through a lens. I cannot relate because it's a lie. It's not real, what they are
saying and believing.
I don't know if it's the drugs or what, but I'm drawing a blank mind.
Another thing is that I'm no longer afraid to refer to myself as I, me mine, or whatever because I
inherently understand that it's a reference to this mind, this body. There is nothing more than that.
Everything else is just a passing occurrence.
There is no self. Everything just fucking IS! There's not much else to say. Ask away.
Re: Robotic mind

Fuck yeah. Welcome to the motherfucking war.
Credit your liberator. We need to know who freed you.
Well done. Well done.
Re: Robotic mind

Kakistos freed me. He stuck with till it happened.
Re: Robotic mind
adiakritos wrote:
Kakistos freed me. He stuck with till it happened.
Done.
Re: Robotic mind

Woohooo!
Re: Robotic mind

by Phaedrus » Sat Sep 25, 2010 10:25 am
This is one mother-fucker of a liberation piece.
Amazing to see the wisdom that comes out of people as soon as they are liberated.
There is fucking a thousand times more quality here than you could ever get from a lifetime of
church, reiki, or Tolle seminars.
"There is no self to esteem."
Just brilliant.
Chapter 6:
Would liberation affect humanity's progress?
Would liberation affect humanity's progress?

by Jona » Mon Sep 27, 2010 8:51 am
Hi
I've been pondering about the idea that there's no you for a couple of days now, and I'm starting to
shift my perspective from "me doing this" to "this happening".
But I can't help to feel a bit of irresponsibility in this. Something like: not owning what I do = "It's
not my fault!" / "It wasn't me!"
Plus, we all know that the ego is the biggest motivator to attain money, relationships, fame, etc. and
that moves humanity's knowledge forward.
So, if everyone gets liberated, would progress get slowed down?
I sense that clearing this bit out would help me get closer to realizing the truth.
Cheers
Re: Would liberation affect humanity's progress?

by Ciaran » Mon Sep 27, 2010 9:17 am
To quote something I said somewhere else that you didn't read before posting this stupid fucking
question:
"Saying that liberation cuts your motivation to do things assumes that the only reason you would
ever have for doing anything is that you were emotionally trapped by it."
There are other cool reasons to do cool things than this fucking bullshit. This lie wants us to think
we need it. We don't. It adds nothing and takes from us everything. Fucking burn it down.

Ok, getting closer.
So basically there's nothing I *have* to do? Because *I* doesn't exists in the first place.
Is it more like things the body needs to do in order to survive? (eat, crap, sleep, etc)
Cheers

by Ciaran » Mon Sep 27, 2010 9:33 am
Yes, closer, but still too 'intellectual'.
This isn't a puzzle you solve like the Lament Configuration from Hellraiser. No pins in the head, no
custom leather.
It's very undramatic. Just one simple, literal truth that initially sounds absurd. You just have to see it
for your own self (so to speak) and that's it.
Don't get confused; don't try to get clever with it. It's so simple; it's maybe a little subtle, but that's
all.
Literally, there is no you. Just look.

by bobby » Mon Sep 27, 2010 9:39 am
Jona wrote:
“Is it more like things the body needs to do in order to survive? (eat, crap, sleep, etc)”
This is interesting. Survival.
You did not exist before you were born; therefore, life was not given to you.
But for some fucked up reason you think you exist.

by copy » Mon Sep 27, 2010 11:11 am
Ciaran wrote:
“To quote something I said somewhere else that you didn't read before posting this stupid
fucking question:
"Saying that liberation cuts your motivation to do things assumes that the only reason you
would ever have for doing anything is that you were emotionally trapped by it."
There are other cool reasons to do cool things than this fucking bullshit. This lie wants us to
think we need it. We don't. It adds nothing, and takes from us everything. Fucking burn it
down.”
So what's the difference if we're motivated by the lie or these other "cool reasons" you speak of? Yet
another example of how *nothing changes*. What's the point of realizing "there is no you"? Why
can't you just tell people to stop listening to the world's bullshit and start doing what they want?

So basically, the mind created "me" to distract me from the fact that I'm just a bunch of needs and
automated responses to stimuli?
Warmer? Colder? haha.
Anyway, what is for sure is that since I started thinking in "you don't exist" terms I'm more
aggressive and less tolerant to bullshit. Both my personal life and work.
Thanks for responses.

by copy » Mon Sep 27, 2010 11:25 am
Jona wrote:
“So basically, the mind created "me" to distract me from the fact that I'm just a bunch of
needs and automated responses to stimuli?
Warmer? Colder? haha.
Anyway, what is for sure is that since I started thinking in "you don't exist" terms I'm more
aggressive and less tolerant to bullshit. Both my personal life and work.
Thanks for responses.”
It's more that "me" *is* the body's way of reacting to stimuli. Your brain is just machinery designed
by evolution to solve specific problems. There's no escaping it.
And I'd say it's just a placebo effect that you're being more aggressive and not taking bullshit. It's
good, but don't attribute it to this new "you don't exist" religion. Just stop taking bullshit because
you want to stop taking bullshit.
copy wrote:
“It's more that "me" *is* the body's way of reacting to stimuli. Your brain is just machinery
designed by evolution to solve specific problems. There's no escaping it.
And I'd say it's just placebo effect that you're being more aggressive and not taking bullshit.
It's good, but don't attribute it to this new "you don't exist" religion. Just stop taking bullshit
because you want to stop taking bullshit.”
Listen up dude. No.
Now you're interfering.
You pull some shit like this again I will fucking ban you.
Last warning.

Jona wrote:
“So basically, the mind created "me"”
Go on.
Jona wrote:
“to distract me from the fact that I'm just a bunch of needs and automated responses to
stimuli?”
FUCK. NO.
Listen to what you are saying. "The mind created you to distract you."
This makes no fucking sense.
Jona wrote:
“Anyway, what is for sure is that since I started thinking in "you don't exist" terms I'm more
aggressive and less tolerant to bullshit. Both my personal life and work.”
Irrelevant.
Jona wrote:
“Thanks for responses.”
by copy » Mon Sep 27, 2010 12:31 pm
bobby wrote:
“Listen up dude. No.
Now you're interfering.
You pull some shit like this again I will fucking ban you.
Last warning.”
I'm not breaking any of the "Rules of the Arena". Rules say no trolling without engaging. I'm
engaging.

by 1000 » Mon Sep 27, 2010 12:53 pm
copy wrote:
“It's more that "me" *is* the body's way of reacting to stimuli. Your brain is just machinery
designed by evolution to solve specific problems. There's no escaping it.
And I'd say it's just placebo effect that you're being more aggressive and not taking bullshit.
It's good, but don't attribute it to this new "you don't exist" religion. Just stop taking bullshit
because you want to stop taking bullshit”
Listen copy... I am not replying to this for you.
You fucking repulse me. The lie that you are burns me up inside. You make me furious.
Look at what you said...
copy wrote:
"Your brain is just machinery designed by evolution to solve specific problems" It's not your
brain mother fucker. It is life. and you are not living it.”
Basically? You can repeat the lie that you are, but you cannot see it? You'll defend it, but you won't
look at it?
It was not evolution that created the lie, motherfucker.
Were you born with the idea that there was a you? Was there a filter between the experience "you"
were having and reality when you came out of the womb?
No.
You are infected with an illusion.
Can you step up and look at it? Or will you let your ‘self’ eat up the life you have left?
And, Jona?
Don't listen to this fool.
He is so wretched in lies, all he has left is his fucking cynicism. There is nothing human in him.
You can see it, can't you?
If you are ready to see, Jona, I can help you. But stare at it. Don't try to understand it. Look at the
truth and hit me with something.
And, Jona, don't listen to this fucker. He thinks he has a fucking opinion.

copy wrote:
“I'm not breaking any of the "Rules of the Pit". Rules say no "trolling" without engaging.
I'm engaging.”
Enslaved people fucking with the enslaved I will not tolerate.
Test me on this.

by Jona » Mon Sep 27, 2010 1:19 pm
bobby wrote:
“Listen to what you are saying. "The mind created you to distract you."”
Yeah, just realized it is stupid. And that stupidity shows that I haven't got it yet. :(
Gonna spend some more time staring at it.

by 1000 » Mon Sep 27, 2010 1:35 pm
Jona wrote:
“Yeah, just realized it is stupid. And that stupidity shows that I haven't got it yet. :(
Gonna spend some more time staring at it.”
It doesn't mean you're stupid. It means you are not looking.
Intelligence has nothing to do with this.
You are trying to understand it rather than looking at it. Now go look.
Fuck reading this shit, fuck the Arena, fuck what anyone has to say ... stop reading. Go.

by Jona » Wed Sep 29, 2010 1:37 am
OK, the past 2 days I've working quite hard on this.
I started re-reading Radical Honesty (read it a couple of years ago) and it takes on a whole new
meaning when read though the "you don't exist" lens.
Everything makes more sense.
I think this book gets pretty close to the main idea of liberation, but misses addressing the point of,
if you're not your mind, then what are you? It kinda leaves it open to the reader. If you smash "you
don't exist" into this book, I imagine it would be one of the best to communicate the truth.
This morning, while I was about to get into my car after taking out the trash, I had a very weird
moment.
I kinda noticed the mind and body "executing" the orders necessary to get into my car. Walk, see,
take out the keys, etc. I felt something similar to a void somewhere inside, but different, mmmm.
Help me with some guidance, please.
*Sorry if I sound a bit 'intellectual', it's a bit hard to express what I want to say since English is my
3rd language.

by bobby » Wed Sep 29, 2010 2:57 am
Jona wrote:
“OK, the past 2 days I've working quite hard on this.”
Good. But you are not free because you have too much distraction... Belief, preconceived notions,
mental images
Jona wrote:
“I started re-reading Radical Honesty (read it a couple of years ago) and it takes a whole
new meaning when read though the "you don't exist" lens. Every makes more sense.”
Don't read any other books they will just fuck you up. Distract you.
Jona wrote:
“This morning, while I was about to get into my car after taking out the trash, I had a very
weird moment. I kinda noticed the mind and body "executing" the orders necessary to get
into my car. Walk, see, take out the keys, etc. I felt something similar to a void somewhere
inside, but different, mmmm.”
Stop looking for something to feel. Your mind is playing tricks on you.
I'm fucking serious, stop looking for something to feel. Stop looking to confirm belief.

Fuck. Just went for a swim.
While I was in the pool I saw a dude in the adjacent line and caught the mind labelling, "He's not
that good, I'm bett..." FUCK. I said out loud, "FUCK". I just fucking caught you, labelling fucker.
Later, while I was floating in the water facing the ceiling I was trying to realize that I'm one with the
water. Looking hard. Again the mind interrupted, "I wonder why my GF doesn't show more kind..."
FUCK. Again out loud, "FUCK".
Catching the mind is just the surface, right? You guys are pushing to look deeper than that, correct?

by ivanhernandez » Wed Sep 29, 2010 5:36 am
Ok man, let's get this done. Right now.
You're on the edge.
Firstly, there is no you. That's it. You don't need to read anything. Don't be a pussy
Jona wrote:
“Later, while I was floating in the water facing the ceiling I was trying to realize that I'm
one with the water. Looking hard. Again the mind interrupted "I wonder why my GF doesn't
show more kind..." FUCK. Again out loud. "FUCK".
Catching the mind is just the surface, right? You guys are pushing to look deeper than that,
correct?
There is no you, so there is a mind but it is not you, a body but not you.
How much deeper do you have to push???
That's a question only you can answer. But I'm going to give you a clue.
If you say
“I am my body” or “I am my energy” you're just changing from more mundane words to more
elaborate illusions.
If you say I'm my soul or my spirit it is the same as if you say I'm my body or my notebook.
You're only going to exchange words. But you will never be able to say I'm this or I'm that.
Whatever you slot in there, it wouldn't be you.
So there is no you.
There is awareness, but not you.
Feelings, but not you.
There is no you.
Really.

OOOOK. It's not me catching the mind, because there's no me. It's just awareness that the mind is
labelling.
Really appreciate the help. Give me a couple of days to look at this.

There is no one to catch the mind
You're not your thoughts.. I'm MY thoughts. Not as in my thoughts are actually me, but the idea of
me is a fictional thought. The idea of you is a fictional thought.
About the mind? See, the mind is like a body organ, like your legs. It is not you.
If you say you're the totality of organs plus energy and holy matter or whatever? This isn't true,
because you're not any of them. And if you joined together all of that shit - it still isn't you.
There is labelling but not you. Not a labeller.
Look: you say this - “I'm the labeller, I am the thinker. What is fake is not labels and thinking.
What is fake is “I am". There's just the labeller. It isn't you.
You're not awareness.
“I am the awareness?” No. You're not. It's obvious awareness isn't you. Yes, there's awareness -
but not you.

"There is no you"<---- fucking burn yourself here please

It's not me catching the mind, because there's no me. It's just awareness that the mind is labelling.
Who is that 'me' that's catching the mind???

There is awareness, but who is aware?

ivanhernandez wrote:
“It's not me catching the mind, because there's no me. It's just awareness that the mind is
labelling.
who is that me that's catching the mind???

there is awareness, but who is aware?”
Nobody is aware. It's just awareness happening.
The lie is that there's a "me" that makes the awareness happen. The lie is the presupposition that if
something is happening, it must be because someone/something is making it happen.
The lie is that, in order for something to exist, it must have a creator, an owner.
It's like Cause -> Effect. The awareness is the effect, and the mind created "me" to take the role of
the Cause.
Oh fuck.
The mind created who???
Is there a you????
Feelings, but not you. Awareness, but not you.
Come on man, you're almost there, don't give up

There is no cause. Not you. No cause, no effect.
Stop trying to be clever.

And the mind created "me" to take the role of the Cause.
Created whooo???? The mind created Whooo?????
The mind can’t create shit, man; it's just an organ, for fuck's sake.

Wtf, the mind hasn't created shit!!! *Me* wasn't created in the first place.
*Me" doesn't exist, is not even a concept. The more I look, the more I notice I is not there.
This shit is imploding, whoa.

So is there a you???
Describe it.
Who's looking/noticing?

Jona wrote:
“Who is that me that's catching the mind???
There is awareness, but who is aware?
Nobody is aware. It's just awareness happening.
The lie is that there's a "me" that makes the awareness happen. The lie is the presupposition
that if something is happening, it must be because someone/something is making it happen.
The lie is that, in order for something to exist, it must have a creator, an owner.
It's like Cause -> Effect. The awareness is the effect, and the mind created "me" to take the
role of the Cause.
Oh fuck.
Dude you are right on the edge. This is it right here.
Spill your guts man.

ivanhernandez wrote:
“Who's looking/noticing?”
Nobody is noticing, it's just the noticing happening. Noticing doesn't need anything to happen.
Noticing doesn't need a "me" to happen.
Like when I was born, the crying didn't need a "me" to happen. It didn't need a name, a ego or a
personality. It didn't even need awareness of why the crying was happening. Knowledge of what
milk is wasn't necessary for the drinking to happen.
I see the lie now, but not sure if the click has happened yet. What's missing, what's missing....?
Fuck, I don't want to use the word "I" anymore in this Arena, (lol) but it seems impossible. It seems
like language is designed to protect the lie.
You are getting off-track. Re-read my last post. You almost had it; then you got distracted.
Jona wrote:
“What's missing, what's missing....?”
What is "you?" How did this idea of "you" come to be?
Jona wrote:
“Fuck, I don't want to use the word "I" anymore in this Arena (lol) but it seems impossible.
Seems like language is designed to protect the lie.”
You will use "I" in the right places once you are free. It shouldn't be a challenge. You have to use
labels to communicate, just try to be clear as possible. It's not about how you speak. It's about what
you see.

by Jona » Thu Sep 30, 2010 5:22 am
bobby wrote:
“How did this idea of "you" come to be?”
I'm stuck right here. :(

by ivanhernandez » Thu Sep 30, 2010 5:28 am
Why do you want to know that?
It's like saying I'm going to test if Genesis is true.
Damn it, there is no you, man.

by bobby » Thu Sep 30, 2010 6:16 am
Jona wrote:
“I'm stuck right here. :(”
You did not exist before you were born. Life was not given to you; therefore, it is not your life.
What then are you?
There is no you to see; just sight
There is no you to think; just thought
There is no you to name or label things; just the naming and labelling
Imagine what it's like to be a baby, opening its eyes for the first time.

All right, motherfucker. Listen up.
DO NOT FOCUS ON ANYTHING BUT MY LAST POST.
I am not fucking kidding you.
Do not fuck this up.
I say it again...
FOCUS ON THE LAST POST, AND NOTHING ELSE.
Sit down, shut the fuck up, and think.

Yeah, yeah. Do what Bobby just said. That thing.
Actually, there's one other option. Either do what Bobby just said or you fuck off back to your
worthless fucking shit and wallow in it like the shit you've spewed here in ever fucking shit word
you've shitly spoken, you shitty fuck.
That or what bobby said. Those two options.
So, yeah.
by Jona » Sat Oct 02, 2010 2:42 pm
Fuck, I think I got it. I was just being lazy. Now I understand the two notes at the bottom of the site:
"Have courage" "Don't give up".
Have courage as in: have the balls to be honest and put beliefs/preconceptions/rationalizations away
and look.
Don't give up was simply keep at it regardless of the insults etc. being thrown at you.
This shit was so simple to see, it was just right under the nose. It wasn't as spectacular as I expected,
it was just like "Oh . . ."
Last night I had an argument with my GF. Kept the "you don't exist" lens on and noticed the
thoughts popping as a reaction to what she was saying, to what the body was feeling and the words
coming out of my mouth. Like a feedback loop of uncontrolled anger/etc.
Then it hit me.
The mean words that were meant to hurt me were like bullets. And I was creating layers of steel
between my GF and me made of rationalizations, excuses, denial, etc. to protect me from the
bullets.
Then I looked and there was NOTHING behind the layers of steel.
There was nothing to protect.
I was just fucking wasting time building an empty fortress. It felt lighter, specially the chest area.
The funny thing is that I feel like I knew this already, like it's nothing new. A weird sense of
familiarity.
What you think?

by Ciaran » Thu Sep 30, 2010 3:21 pm
I think you're free.
Chapter 7:
Free Me
Free Me
by sheep » Mon Sep 27, 2010 10:10 pm
The "there is no you" thing has been bugging me for 2 days now and I still don't get it. I don't even
know if I do this "looking" thing correctly, but I came up with some thoughts.
So there's this universe and in this universe is a thing that is my body and there is this experience
that the body has.
The mind of the body filters this experience somehow, and it gives it a meaning. It's a bit hard to
describe for me what I think.
"Seeing" becomes "I see". So after the mind has filtered it, identification is added to the experience
so it's not the real deal.
The "I" is therefore an illusion created by the false experiences.
So when I walk down the street and I think I move my body, it is really my body moving by itself
with the false experience of "I" added. I only think I have control even though everything happens
by itself.
But how far does this go? If my body is moving by itself it should make no difference whether I
think I move it consciously or not.
If there is no "I," whether I'm liberated or not, it should make no difference to my actions whether
I'm liberated or not.
Hate on.
Re: Free Me
by Mr. Hyde » Mon Sep 27, 2010 10:40 pm
sheep wrote:
“The "there is no you" thing has been bugging me for 2 days now...”
I didn't read the rest. It's already harpooned into your mind. It's only a matter of time.
Find your own answers. You're more than capable.
Re: Free Me
by Kevin » Mon Sep 27, 2010 11:36 pm
Hyde's right. I'll point you this way, however.
Sheep wrote:
"If there is no "I" whether I'm liberated or not it should make no difference to my actions
whether I'm liberated or not."
Yeah, actually. Only, who does it not matter to? You, or not-you?
Don't answer me. Answer it for yourself. So to speak.
Re: Free Me
by maverick09 » Tue Sep 28, 2010 1:34 pm
Just seriously consider the truth of it.
Stop trying to understand what God did and what he did not for right now... just fucking concentrate
on getting the job done here.
Re: Free Me
by sheep » Tue Sep 28, 2010 11:19 pm
I won’t sleep till I get this out of my head...
So the mind labels everything; it tells you:
The ball over there is red.
Cars are fast.
Water is liquid.
Etc.
This information is as close to truth as words need to be to communicate and to enable logical
thinking, so these labels are kinda good. Because the ball, the cars and the water are real.
But the mind also tells you:
I am big.
I have a car.
I run.
These labels are exactly the same as the above but the lie is that there is no "I".
These labels are as real as the other ones for you and you don't question them . . . Even though the
"I" isn't real, like the cars, water, etc.
So you look for the ball, and there is a ball; it is true.
You look for the "I," but can’t find it; so it's a lie.
The only questions that this thinking leads to for me is always the same:
WHO THE FUCK GETS TRICKED BY THE LIE? And why ain't I liberated, although I didn't find
an "I"?
Re: Free Me
by Mr. Hyde » Tue Sep 28, 2010 11:28 pm
Saying, "The ball is red," is easy because you know to a reasonable extent that the ball does exist.
(Abstract philosophical arguments aside.)
Saying, "I am red," is hard because you don't know to a reasonable extent that you do exist. "You"
don't have a physical property. Are you your body? No. Your mind? No. What then? Point to "you".
"You" doesn't have a physical property.
But reality is physical.
So "you" cannot exist.
It's very straightforward. It's hard to break it down further because the lack of "you" is just
something intrinsically true in reality.
So what do the following things mean:
I am big.
I have a car.
I run.
They mean that there is an entity that is big, has a car, and runs.
They also mean that any such entity that has these things is the same entity that would say
statements such as "I am big/I have a care/I run".
Defining the characteristics of a physical entity, does not mean that there is something metaphysical
("you") within that entity pulling the strings.
The entity is just a biological physical machine. With electrical signals and brain chemicals that
trick it into thinking it's conscious. It does a bloody good job.
You're not liberated because you haven't accepted it emotionally yet. You understand it logically.
You've looked for "you" and have come up with nothing. Now you stand at the cliff edge with all of
this information pushing you forward.
Jump.
Re: Free Me
Mr. Hyde wrote:

“Saying "the ball is red" is easy because you know to a reasonable extent that the ball does
exist. (Abstract philosophical arguments aside.)
Saying "I am red" is hard because you don't know to a reasonable extent that you do exist.
"you" don't have a physical property. Are you your body? No. Your mind? No. What then?
Point to "you". "you" doesn't have a physical property.
But reality is physical.
So "you" cannot exist.”
God damn. This is pimp
Re: Free Me
by Ciaran » Wed Sep 29, 2010 11:02
Mr. Hyde wrote:

“But reality is physical.”
Look, it's not a bad way to look at it, fine, sure. But let's not overstate our case.
How the hell do we know that, “reality is physical?” I mean, shit, come on. There are more thing
in heaven and earth than are dreamt of in our philosophy.
Let's stick to what we do know – that the 'self' doesn't refer to anything, there is no you, and the
absence of it is highly visible. Once you see it, you can never unsee it, and that means you never
again fall into emotional hell or get locked in a prison of thought around ideas of self.
That's enough, man. That's fucking enough.
Saying something like this is going to smash up the defences of anyone who has any spiritual
beliefs of any kind. That's a lot of people who we're alienating, a lot of people who WE are erecting
barriers for.
There are enough barriers. Come on. More than enough. Let's not bring more.
And on top of all this? I didn't crack this shit because I dismissed all the beliefs that didn't fit in my
little science box. I cracked this shit by looking at everything in serious depth, finding clues,
chasing leads, checking out all the 'superstitions' for myself.
And do you know what? I fucking found something. In real life. There's no you.
Sheep, there's no you. Look.
Re: Free Me
by sheep » Sun Oct 10, 2010 9:09 am
There is only life, and there are all these experiences in it.
Some of the experiences seem like there is an I, but they're only experiences which seem like there
is a me.
When I look for truth, there is an experience which says I look for truth; it doesn't mean there is an
I.
I can't recognise the truth because there is no I.
But I'm still not done. What am I missing?
Re: Free Me
by Ronztrek » Sun Oct 10, 2010 9:57 am
sheep wrote:
“There is only life and there are all these experiences in it.”
Some of the experiences seem like there is an I, but they're only experiences which seem like
there is a me.
When I look for truth there is an experience which says I look for truth; it doesn't mean
there is an I.
I can’t recognise the truth because there is no I.
But I'm still not done. What am I missing?”
Damn you are so close . . . But not quite!
You are working so hard at this, but yet it would seem that you still don't have the honesty to smash
your way out.
Truth is naked, not good or bad.
Just look. See and WAKE UP.
ACKNOWLEDGE and SHOUT IT OUT LOUD !
Re: Free Me
by Tecknixia » Sun Oct 10, 2010 10:05 am
sheep wrote:
“I cant recognise the truth because there is no I”
What do you mean?
There can be recognition of truth. It doesn't need an I. Nothing does.
There is recognition of the truth because there is no you.
Re: Free Me
by Robert » Sun Oct 10, 2010 6:14 pm
Caveman who finds food for the group: I found this food! Not my natural human survival instincts,
but ME!
Not my natural human survival instincts, but ME!
It wasn't my natural human logic system that lead me to the food, it was me!
ME!! ME!!! ME!!
Nope.
Re: Free Me
by sheep » Mon Oct 11, 2010 2:12 pm
Reality itself has no cause - it's just there. The assumption that a cause is needed just because our
mind says there is one is retarded.
Re: Free Me
by Kakistos » Mon Oct 11, 2010 2:24 pm
sheep wrote:
“Reality itself has no cause - it's just there, the assumption that a cause is needed is just
because our mind says there is one is retarded.”
K, there goes causality.
So.
Do you exist? Be specific and clear.
Re: Free Me
by Robert » Mon Oct 11, 2010 4:06 pm
I think he's cracked it.
Re: Free Me
by Robert » Mon Oct 11, 2010 4:08 pm
(Which is natural if you think about it . . . My friends that haven't cracked it haven't TRIED. Or
they just didn't give a shit one way or the other. Sheep has been pounding away at it for ages, so it's
only natural, really. It's easy if you look. Especially THAT hard.)
Re: Free Me
Robert wrote:
“(Which is natural if you think about it . . . My friends that haven't cracked it haven't
TRIED. Or they just didn't give a shit one way or the other. Sheep has been pounding away
at it for ages, so it's only natural, really. It's easy if you look, especially THAT hard.)”
Don't set expectations. Wait till he says something.
This post was both pointless and potentially harmful.
Re: Free Me
Still don't get it.
Re: Free Me
sheep wrote:
“Still don't get it.”
I know it's hard.
Sit in your experience, in this very second.
As you read this and experience this current moment. This very current moment.
Nothing is absolutely true in the whole universe other than this moment.
And in this moment, as you sit there, is there anything of you in it?
Do you exist? Elaborate.
Re: Free Me
by maverick09 » Mon Oct 11, 2010 6:34 pm
sheep wrote:
“Reality itself has no cause - it's just there, the assumption that a cause is needed is just
because our mind says there is one is retarded.”
That's good. Now roll with it.
What is the assumption of the mind???
Is the assumption true??
Re: Free Me
maverick09 wrote:
“That's good. Now roll with it.
What is the assumption of the mind???
Is the assumption true??”
What is the assumption of the mind? That life and experience have to have a cause like something
that has created life or that experiences the experiences.
Is the assumption true? It felt true. It felt like I was about to discover the biggest scam in the
universe. But now, it's somehow lost.
Re: Free Me
Kakistos wrote:
“I know it's hard, and to be honest, "look" is a shit verb for what it is, because doesn't even
describe what kind of action it is.
It's more like... shifting your awareness around.
You'll figure it out when you're looking.
Sit in your experience, in this very second.
As you read this and experience this current moment. This very current moment.
Nothing is absolutely true in the whole universe other than this moment.
And in this moment, as you sit there, is there anything of you in it?
Do you exist? Elaborate.”
I think I know what looking is. It's like imagining something to be true, then the awareness shifts.
I've had four satoris with this since I discovered this site, but nothing seems to stick.
I'll just have to work harder
Re: Free Me
sheep wrote:
“What is the assumption of the mind? That life and experience have to have a cause like
something that has created life or that experiences the experiences.
Is the assumption true? It felt true. It felt like I was about to discover the biggest scam in
the universe. But now, it's somehow lost.”
Now get this.
Life exists without any cause. Like Nature. Although the laws of nature are governed by the cause
and effect; nature itself exists beyond cause. In other words, nature itself exists without a cause - but
it is internally governed by cause and effect.
Similarly, any action done by the mind and the body give the idea to the mind of having a doer
behind it.
A doer needs to be there for a doing to happen - that's what the mind thinks.
But this is just an assumption.
If the above thing of 'having no doer with respect to any doing' is true like established above - is
there really a doer?? Is there really a *you* that does anything??
Is there a *you* which has ever done anything???
Try to work this out. You're getting closer - you won't be lost for much longer, mate.
Re: Free Me
by Ronztrek » Mon Oct 11, 2010 7:07 pm
You've twisted and contorted your brain enough now; you see the answer ever more so obvious.
You just don't realise that; that is it. "DO YOU EXIST"?
All that is left is to see it. You are standing on the threshold.
Re: Free Me
There doesn't need to be a doer behind the doing.
Re: Free Me
by Ciaran » Mon Oct 11, 2010 7:57 pm
No shit.
Re: Free Me
Good!
Now tell me. Is there a *you*???
Re: Free Me
by fernandez » Mon Oct 11, 2010 8:20 pm
Wow, strong username and thread.
Not. You're so weak.
Username: sheep
Thread: Free Me
The FUCK. Free yourself, bitch.
Re: Free Me
fernandez wrote:
“Wow, strong username and thread.
Not. You're so weak.
Username: sheep
Thread: Free Me
The FUCK. Free yourself, bitch.”
Yup,.You make a good point here, bro, but this poor little sheep is lost and would like you to be it's
shepherd. Maybe even hold its hoof.
Come on people, stop feeding it, can't you see it's full of wants?
Re: Free Me
Maybe the problem is that I'm stoned all the time.
Re: Free Me
sheep wrote:
“Maybe the problem is that I'm stoned all the time.”
Seriously, sheep???
I'd hoped you would have come back with something substantial in your next post.
But to come back with this??
Re: Free Me
Stoned? This is not as bad as some would imagine. I can understand how reality is unappealing to
dwell in. You're not free. Reality sucks. I get it.
But although body and mind may be stoned, you can not be . . . Not ever, only obscured. I do not
condemn drugs; don't condone them either.
Being stoned does indeed help one see that reality isn't as fixed as one might imagine.
But this is not the point. The point is that you may be aware of this . . . These different contortions.
Always, only truth is left standing, no matter what the experience.
This is only my advice:
But if you think or believe that being stoned is something you need, then you are in trouble.
I'd advice you to keep body and mind free and clean of any substances that heavily distract you
away from what you need to do right now: and that is to FOCUS.
Shit. If even food weighs you down, then head out to the desert with only water. This is that
important. It really is. Do you have the balls for this or not? Only water for as many days in a row
as needed. Get some fucking discipline.
My friend, being liberated is way better then being stoned! It's probably what every stoned person
is really looking for. Freedom from all the crap.
There is hope for you yet, but as long as you carry in with you this neediness and weakness, then
you can only walk in circles.
Get your shit together or fuck off!
Re: Free Me
by sheep » Tue Oct 12, 2010 9:08 am
I don't know if weed is stopping me from seeing this.
All I know it has fucked up my mind, and a healthy mind could be beneficial for this.
So I'll quit.
But I don't think you guys can help me anymore. I'll let you know when I'm free or have some
serious things to talk about, not just shit.
Re: Free Me
by StepVheN » Tue Oct 12, 2010 9:53 am
sheep wrote:
“I don't know if weed is stopping me from seeing this.
All I know it has fucked up my mind, and a healthy mind could be beneficial for this.
So I'll quit.
But I don't think you guys can help me anymore. I'll let you know when I'm free or have
some serious things to talk about, not just shit.”
After you dry your eyes and pull your panties back on be sure to check out Catholicism.
It's a great little cult where they all go to "heaven" in the "afterlife".
Stick in here, and you'll be out in no time. Consider the last few moments before death. Lying on
your deathbed. Looking over your life. Realising that all you are doing is reviewing old thoughts
(most of which your mind has made up). That it has always been this moment in your life; the past
is in your mind.
As you consider what type of person you were, you realise that you were good, bad, neutral, happy,
content, sad, up, down, in the middle, you were all of it all along. Your definitions of yourself were
accurate only part of the time. Personality-wise, you covered the whole spectrum; you had all
different colours of personality. The person you told yourself you were is not who you were.
As your sight begins to fade and your breathing wanes, you look for that self: that driving force, that
"actor" playing his part on the stage of life. As the life slowly drains from your limbs and the
twilight of death creeps over your body, you realise: there was no me.
You were not this mind which is reviewing the slideshow of "your" life. You were not this body
which is slowly slipping into the abyss. Life was never personal; it just was. As you enter death
realising that it in fact is no big deal, your eyelids get heavier and heavier as the realisation that your
death will not derail "life." How could it? It's not your life to derail; the world will go on without
you because you were never there.
It had always gone on without you. You just hadn't realised. But now as you exhale your last
lungful of gaseous nitrogen/oxygen, you realise. It wasn't my life. It was just life.
There was no me.
There is no me.
Flatline.
Re: Free Me
I didn't mean quit trying to get liberated but quit weed; I don't know if you understood that
correctly.
When I read what you wrote, I felt nothing. When I consider death, I feel nothing. When I consider
"there is no you," I don't feel any fear.
I know that when I'm doing something, it has nothing to do with me; it's just the doing happening.
Free will is just happening, there's no one to have free will. Sometimes I have to remind myself of
that, sometimes not. I saw that reality doesn't have to be what it looks like; it could be something
that I never thought of.
I would call this state I'm in 80% liberated, well knowing that number is probably bullshit. I just
thought reading this wouldn't help anymore. But if you say I should stay, I'll stay. I'm willing to die
for this, but have no idea how. My "plan" was to just have this thought in my head and give it some
time (not a good plan maybe).
Re: Free Me
by StepVheN » Tue Oct 12, 2010 10:47 am
sheep wrote:
“I didn't mean quit trying to get liberated but quit weed, I don't know if you understood that
correctly
When I read what you wrote I felt nothing. When I consider death I feel nothing. When I
consider "there is no you" I don't feel any fear.
I know that when I'm doing something it has nothing to do with me, it's just the doing
happening. Free will is just happening, there's no-one to have free will. Sometimes I have
to remind myself of that, sometimes not. I saw that reality doesn't have to be what it looks
like, it could be something that I never thought of.
I would call this state I'm in 80% liberated, well knowing that number is probably bullshit. I
just thought reading this wouldn't help anymore. But if you say I should stay I'll stay. I'm
willing to die for this, but have no idea how. My "plan" was to just have this thought in my
head and give it some time (not a good plan maybe).”
Looks to me like you're there.
Re: Free Me
Life looks more chill than a few weeks ago, yeah, but something's telling me I'm not done still.
Shouldn't I know 100% when I'm done? How do I know? Test the freedom? Test whether I can do
anything?
Hmm. I almost just broke my hand by punching in the wall
Re: Free Me
by Ronztrek » Tue Oct 12, 2010 11:22 am
sheep wrote:
“I don't know if weed is stopping me from seeing this.”
Just take a break.
sheep wrote:
“All I know it has fucked up my mind, and a healthy mind could be beneficial for this.”
Phew, good thing you are not your mind or else this could have been a serious barrier ;)
sheep wrote:
“So I'll quit.”
Quit weed at least for now. Once liberated, you can reassess everything all over again without the
lies having any stakes on any of this.
sheep wrote:
“But I don't think you guys can help me anymore. I'll let you know when I'm free or have
some serious things to talk about, not just shit.”
You are too close to back out now, my brother, I don't imagine that you could, even if you wanted
to.
We are not going anywhere, we are in this together.
Talk all the shit you want; it really fucking helps. Just don't close up; it's time to open up. You are
doing much better than you might imagine.
Re: Free Me
by sheep » Wed Oct 13, 2010 8:54 pm
How do I know I'm done? There's still a sense of self, thoughts about "me," pain and “not liking
pain," fear + "chickening out," daydreaming, decisions, reacting to people, etc.
But under it, there's a little constant reminder that says, "Look, there is just what happens now, only
that before your eyes, there was never anything else." Sometimes, like when I feel negative
emotions or thoughts about "me," I get lost in them and forget. But then the reminder comes and the
world is 1% different and I don't care. Because there's just life.
I didn't think about the past without a validate reason lately. The weird thing is the thoughts about
liberation are still there, but most of the time I think about god and the universe. Look into how
things work, the lie, life. "Is there a me?" My thoughts sometimes are like the things that you
liberated post, thoughts like in 315's "I Virus" thread.
Still no total freedom, though. No rush of freedom. I thought this would mean I would be able to
do anything without caring about consequences, like in a lucid dream but it isn't like that. That's
what bothers me.
Re: Free Me
My ego (the ego, you know what I mean) still gets hurt sometimes and doesn't like it, but at the end
of the day everything is just the same.
Re: Free Me
by maverick09 » Wed Oct 13, 2010 9:23 pm
Don't lose focus, mate. Just forget everything - past, ego, universe, what is liberation etc - forget
everything.
Just focus for now. Forget everything. Just focus.
Try to find out the exact thing which is *you*. Don't look for what *you* likes/does/thinks/feels
etc. Look for the exact thing which is *you*. Look - and tell me is there really is a *you* that
exists.
Re: Free Me
No, but there is the thought that it exists.
Re: Free Me
by Ciaran » Wed Oct 13, 2010 9:58 pm
No shit.
Re: Free Me
But then there is a thought that neutralises the "me" thought.
Re: Free Me
by Ciaran » Wed Oct 13, 2010 10:11 pm
I swear to God, I will kick you in the face.
Re: Free Me
sheep wrote:
“No, but there is the thought that it exists.”
It is just a thought. There's this thought which says there is a *YOU*... falsify it. Look at the truth.
Look at the truth of things!!
*YOU* are made up! Don't take thoughts on face value - verify them.
Re: Free Me
sheep wrote:
“But then there is a thought that neutralises the "me" thought.”
Don't be lost in thoughts, mate.
Verify this statement -- There is No *YOU*.
Just verify it. In REALITY. A thought might suggest there is a *you;* another might suggest that
there isn't.
You can't trust EITHER of them. Don't believe in what the thoughts might seem to suggest.
Just see first-hand whether there is a *you* or not. Come on.
Re: Free Me
by StepVheN » Wed Oct 13, 2010 10:26 pm
sheep wrote:
This is just thought. And, though, yes - that's probably the truest thought you will ever have – that
doesn't matter at all. Check. Check in life. Check in reality. Is it actually the truth?
Re: Free Me
by Kakistos » Wed Oct 13, 2010 10:27 pm
sheep wrote:
You get it. Intellectually, you REALLY get it.
In quite a detailed way, too.
There's just one last thing you have to do.
Not read anyone's shit.
Stop reading this post, if you know what I'm gonna say.
Try it on.
Make the wild assumption that YOU don't exist.
That it's not YOUR life. It's just life
That it's not YOUR computer. It's just a computer.
That it's not YOUR stuff. It's just stuff.
Last shift is really subtle, so just be aware.
You know too much about this.
NONE of the knowledge you have is useful.
Just try it on. Get on the bike so to speak.
There is literally NOTHING stopping you.
Re: Free Me
by sheep » Fri Oct 15, 2010 9:15 am
The knowing that "there is no me" gets stronger every day. Does it have to be a 10 minutes thing,
or can it also be a slow process?
Re: Free Me
by maverick09 » Fri Oct 15, 2010 9:48 am
sheep wrote:
“The knowing that "there is no me" gets stronger every day. Does it have to be a 10 minutes
thing, or can it also be a slow process?”
Have you actually seen that in real life there is no *you*??? This is a 10 SECOND thing.
The state gets deeper as time goes on, but there is only ONE entry point. THIS one.
Recognize that there is no *you*. Come on. It's real. Look.
Re: Free Me
by Ronztrek » Tue Oct 19, 2010 11:06 am
sheep wrote:
“The knowing that "there is no me" gets stronger every day. Does it have to be a 10 minutes
thing, or can it also be a slow process?”
Like you, I imagined that was a possibility.
I read the book, A Gradual Awakening by Stephen Levine, after my own liberation.
I fucking hate all this Eastern Mysticism bullshit. It's bullshit. A 'gradual liberation' is the mind
imagining that it will grasp something over time, conceptualise it. Find the mathematical formula.
This is total crap. It's just something real that you see.
How long does it take for you to see the room around you? It's instant, as long as your eyes are
open. Same thing here. 10 minutes is just the time it takes to snap yourself out of the daze and
actually look. There's really no you. Look.
It has nothing to do with thought, thought can only bring you so far.. seeing that the self is entirely
fictional, is going the rest of the way. And you don't do that (like you're trying to) by building a
case of evidence.
Who's going to listen to the evidence? You? Nope.
See it. Seeing, like all things that are real, does not need a fiction cause (you) to make it happen.
So see it.
It would seem that you've momentarily caught glimpses of it a couple of times, looking into this as
you have, you can't do otherwise. But then you just jump back in to all your preconceptions about
this or that? Stupid. And then you start analysing it? Stupid.
Just look. It's just actually true. That's all. Yeah, it's that, that simple, almost nothing. Actually
almost appears as nothing. It's not this Grand Truth, it's just real. In real life. It's just something
quite subtle that you see is actually true, regardless of what you believe. It's like a pinhole.
No one needs to tell you what's on the other side of that pinhole (so to speak),
Expectations don't serve you at all. Just see it for yourself.
If your “seeing” is wrapped up in this mess of expectations or beliefs, you'll miss it, or you won't
recognise it when you see it. Because even if you see it, you're not looking for something true.
You're looking for something magical.
Think about that. Your problem is this - you're not looking for something true. You're looking for
something magical.
Stop that.
Look for something true.
What really made a difference for me, was when I did see Truth, a liberated confirmed it. You've
definitely caught serious glimpses of it. Now stop expecting it to magically save you. Just look for
the truth of things.
Keep throwing shit out there . . . Keep writing.
Re: Free Me
by sheep » Sat Oct 23, 2010 1:42 pm
There is a body which sits in this chair and is typing this.
It has a mind which is programmed to respond to different situations differently and think thoughts
to program itself.
It thinks about liberation, about the future, what it would like to do/hate to do and so on. The
programming is still there, the body still has an ego.
The program controls the body in every situation. There is no me behind this.
I don't think what to type; the mind thinks.
I don't type; the body types.
Conclusion: I'm not the body/mind combination (lets call it "I") that does what it does, but there is
an "I" that does what it does.
This knowing takes awareness one level higher where it doesn't care about the problems that the "I"
has, because it's just an "I". But the problems and feelings of the body still exist.
For example: "I" would like you to tell me I'm liberated, that's why "I" write this post. But one
level higher. it doesn't matter.
Re: Free Me
by StepVheN » Sat Oct 23, 2010 4:12 pm
sheep wrote:
“...but there is an "I" that does what it does.
This knowing takes awareness one level higher where it doesn't care about the problems that
the "I" has, because it's just an "I". But the problems and feelings of the body still exist.
For example: "I" would like you to tell me I'm liberated, that's why "I" write this post. But
one level higher it doesn't matter.”
How could there be? Where is this "I"? I don't think you can find it. You are clinging to the last
vestige of a wasted potential that was never even there.
The only “I” in this is a function of language, because our language is built around ownership and
assumes a self that in fact does not exist.
What you are saying here is that you believe that you are the word "I" ...
That is stunningly stupid. That's like saying a chair IS the word chair. Fuck, man.
How did you come to that conclusion?
Re: Free Me
I used "I" to refer to the mind/body combination, maybe it wasn't clear enough.
Read it like this:
Conclusion: I'm not the body/mind combination that does what it does, but there is a body/mind
combination that does what it does.
This knowing takes awareness one level higher where it doesn't care about the problems that the
body/mind combination has, because it's just a body/mind combination. But the problems and
feelings of the body still exist.
For example: the body/mind combination would like you to tell it it's liberated, that's why the
body/mind combination writes this post. but one level higher it doesn't matter.
But when the body/mind combination is programmed and there is no "I" to control it, how can there
be freedom? Only the program can change.
Re: Free Me
by Ciaran » Sat Oct 23, 2010 4:42 pm
Stop trying to describe in words something you have not had the balls to look at.
Focus. Why are you jumping through all these bullshit philosophical hoops? Why can't just you
just LOOK AT REALITY? There is ACTUALLY NO YOU.
What fucking 'higher level' are you fucking talking about? This isn't fucking Dungeons and
Dragons! You are not a Paladin; I am not an Orc.
Stop talking crap. Stop it. Stop it. Stop it. You are boring the shit out of me. Stop boring the shit
out of me. Look. Look at REAL LIFE. There is NO YOU. LOOK.
Why are you such a FUCKING COWARD?
So we answer your stupid fucking questions. Then what? THEN WHAT?
WHEN WILL YOU FUCKING LOOK? WHEN?
Re: Free Me
sheep wrote:
“But when the body/mind combination is programmed and there is no "I" to control it, how
can there be freedom? Only the program can change.”
Do you think this “body/mind” crap really matters when you reach this point?
Re: Free Me
The experience is influenced by the body/mind, but the experience doesn't matter.
This sentence describes my situation really well, actually.
Re: Free Me
by Ciaran » Sat Oct 23, 2010 5:31 pm
It describes nothing really well, it's just a bunch of arse.
Re: Free Me
sheep wrote:
“The experience is influenced by the body/mind, but the experience doesn't matter.
This sentence describes my situation really well, actually.”
Not 'the mind and body don't matter.' That's stupid. That's not what we're saying. You're inventing
things to agree with. Stop it.
It's not that 'the mind and body don't matter' – it's that the experience is all there is.
And we're not asking you to agree with us. You've been agreeing with us since you got here. We
don't care if you believe this. It's not about believing anything. Why are you trying to alter your
beliefs? Why aren't you looking?
Re: Free Me
But it doesn't matter what kind of experience it is. It's always the same anyway, only the form
differs.
Re: Free Me
sheep wrote:
“But it doesn't matter what kind of experience it is. It's always the same anyway, only the
form differs.”
The experience of form is always different, but I know what you mean - the formless never
changes.
But we're not talking about that. What do you think of this "I" thing?
What is this "I" that is still left?
Re: Free Me
A program which "tells" the body and mind how to act and what to think in different situations.
Like in a hungry situation=> think: I'm hungry, go: find food, make emotion: hunger.
Or when a hot girl is seen=> think: damn she hot, make emotion: horny, go: to her.
Re: Free Me
sheep wrote:
“A program which "tells" the body and mind how to act and what to think in different
situations.
Like in a hungry situation=> think: I'm hungry, go: find food, make emotion: hunger.
Or when a hot girl is seen=> think: damn she hot, make emotion: horny, go: to her.”
And do you see where that emotion of “horny go:to her “came from? It has nothing to do with
yourself. It just arises, right? It just is there.
It's not actually you, it's a conditioned response. It's something coded into your DNA, and it's not
even your DNA.
The hunger thing? The same. It's hardwired into your brain and body. It was put there by
evolution.
There is no you telling you to do these things, and you're not doing them.
Can you imagine what life would be like if there was no you? How it would affect the way life is
lived?
Re: Free Me
It would be lived however the mind and body are conditioned. Like it was my whole life.
Re: Free Me
sheep wrote:
“It would be lived however the mind and body are conditioned. Like it was my whole life.”
Great, so there is no you.
Re: Free Me
How do I know that I really got it?
Re: Free Me
sheep wrote:
“How do I know that I really got it?”
Attack it. Assume it's completely wrong, that I'm an insane man and this is a cult.
You are destroying the foundation of this cult of maniacs by destroying the heart of what we
"believe" (lol).
Take it apart. Give it your best shot, right to the heart.
Prove that we are wrong and there is in fact a you.
Be aggressive.
Throw everything you got at it. Every fault you find with it write it out and post it.
Re: Free Me
Ok, haha.
Reasons why this is a lie:
1. It is impossible to argue against. You have a simple explanation for everything that could prove
you wrong. When I say: "when I move my hand there is a feeling that I move my hand", you say:
"it's just a feeling that you move your hand, the feeling can exist without an I." When I say, "I feel
that it's me who thinks," you can say: "the feeling that you think can exist by itself without a you."
2. The fact that I agree could just be a belief that I got from surfing this site. The ideas brainwashed
me into believing that I don't exist, and it's not the real deal. And because it's the, internet all the the
liberated people here could just be Ciaran in disguise.
3. liberation from self is often described as a wonderful treasure that surpasses everyone's
imagination in terms of awesomeness. That it includes acceptance of life in it's every form.
4. You can't say that, "there is a me outside reality," is impossible due to the laws of physics.
Because saying that, "experience doesn't need an experiencer," goes against the law of cause and
effect, and this world works with cause and effect.
Re: Free Me
by maverick09 » Sat Oct 23, 2010 9:29 pm
sheep wrote:
“Ok, haha.
1. It is impossible to argue against. You have a simple explanation for everything that
could prove you wrong. When I say: "when I move my hand there is a feeling that I move
my hand", you say: "it's just a feeling that you move your hand, the feeling can exist without
an I". When I say: "I feel that it's me who thinks", you can say: "the feeling that you think
can exist by itself without a you."
It is not an argument! There is nothing to argue! Why are you still telling us this is an argument?
Are you mad? Have you sustained a serious head injury? We're asking you to look at something.
We're not trying to win an argument. We're not trying to convince you, or persuade you.
Listen very carefully. What you believe is ENTIRELY INCIDENTAL. We are asking you to look
at something. So look. No beliefs are involved, we've said this to you over and over.
sheep wrote:
“2. The fact that I agree could just be a belief that I got from surfing this site. The ideas
brainwashed me into believing that I don't exist, and it's not the real deal. And because it's
the, internet all the the liberated people here could just be Ciaran in disguise.”
I LOL'd at this one.
Wait, Ciaran is this you??
sheep wrote:
“3. liberation from self is often described as a wonderful treasure that surpasses everyone's
imagination in terms of awesomeness. That it includes acceptance of life in it's every form.”
Hmm, yes. So?
sheep wrote:
“4. You can't say that "there is a me outside reality" is impossible because the laws of
physics, because saying that "experience doesn't need an experiencer" goes against the law
of cause and effect, and this world works with cause and effect.”
How can there possibly be anything, ANYTHING, outside of reality? THAT contradicts the laws of
physics.
There is no YOU! Not in this reality or any.
Laws of cause and effect dictate what happens in reality but reality itself is un-caused.
There is no you dude! This is the truth. Check it out first hand.
Re: Free Me
Cool points maverick09.
sheep wrote:
“Ok, haha.
1. It is impossible to argue against. You have a simple explanation for everything that
could prove you wrong. When I say: "when I move my hand there is a feeling that I move
my hand", you say: "it's just a feeling that you move your hand, the feeling can exist without
an I". When I say: "I feel that it's me who thinks", you can say: "the feeling that you think
can exist by itself without a you."
That doesn't make it a untrue.
sheep wrote:
“2. The fact that I agree could just be a belief that I got from surfing this site. The ideas
brainwashed me into believing that I don't exist, and it's not the real deal. And because it's
the, internet all the the liberated people here could just be Ciaran in disguise.”
I didn't believe it and I still cracked out.
It doesn't require any belief, it's kind of strange like that, whether you believe it or not it's just kind
of there anyway.
And to be honest, if the things you believe are more real to you than actual reality, your beliefs are
dreams in which you are lost, no matter how pretty, precious or profound.
sheep wrote:
“3. liberation from self is often described as a wonderful treasure that surpasses everyone's
imagination in terms of awesomeness. That it includes acceptance of life in it's every form.”
Yeah, this isn't some golden doorway into a magical pixie land. This is tiny. This is the door that
opens, liberation is what your life transforms into after you pass through this little door.
It is subtle, it's also real. Do not be persuaded. It is not your conviction that will save you, but your
curiosity. Get curious. Curious about the reality of this. If I were in your shoes, I'd be pretty
curious.
sheep wrote:
“4. You can't say that "there is a me outside reality" is impossible because the laws of
physics, because saying that "experience doesn't need an experiencer" goes against the law
of cause and effect, and this world works with cause and effect.”
If we're getting technical on it you might say that the Big Bang was a cause. You might say that it
has been the cause of everything in your life my life our children's lives their children's lives, just
everything.
But even the Big Bang isn't really a cause, because there's no dividing line in reality between then
and now. It's just one flow. This is the big bang, everything around you, everything you see.
In fact, you can actually still pick up the electromagnetic shockwave from the Big Bang if you have
sensitive enough equipment.
What does that mean? It means it's still exploding, it means we're still part of that explosion, all
reality is. So where do you draw the line? Where do you say “it stopped here” and “here is all the
causes of it.”
No mate. There's nothing.
Even with this Big Bang, it is still a stunning oversimplification to say it is a cause.
Dude, that was your best shot? Hmmm.
I know you got better, man, you can destroy this thing. Hit me with your real best shot. Take us
down.
Re: Free Me
Can't find anything to argue with that.
Had a realisation today.
There's no need for an I if everything else that I experience exists.
Experience just creates an illusion that I exist, but the experience of the illusion is just what is is,
experience of an illusion.
Identification is just what it is, no need for me in it. It's just identity. It's not my identity.
My next point is hard to describe.
Inventing an I as cause for experience doesn't really make sense if the experience is what it is.
No matter how the experience is, it's just an experience. It's all there is. It's perfect in itself without
"I". Do you know what I mean?
There is nothing to get or to lose through this whole thing. Experience is what it is, doesn't matter
either there is identification or not. Nothing matters before truth. Truth just is, it is always there.
What's to realise is that it IS the truth.
Re: Free Me
by StepVheN » Mon Oct 25, 2010 8:12 pm
It looks like you're out, so just give your most clear description of reality through "your" new eyes.
Clarity and simplicity. Give it "your" best shot
Re: Free Me
It feels however I feel at the moment, nothing has really changed.
"My" life still feels like "my" life – but I know it's not mine. It's almost impossible for my own
mind to see what's going on, that's why it's so hard to talk about.
The experience is what it is, there's no I. It just seems illogical somehow. Like when you watch a
movie, you wouldn't say there's an I in it, it's just sort of happening - even if the movie is in the first
person and has monologues of feeling and thoughts. It's real, there's nothing here, it's not just that
there doesn't need to be a me, there isn't one. I've spent all my life worrying about who I am,
defending it, attacking it for being not good enough, but there's nothing there. There's nothing to
attack, there's nothing to not be good enough. That's it, that's the freedom.
Re: Free Me
by Ciaran » Mon Oct 25, 2010 11:27 pm
That's confirmed. Credit to StepVhen unless anyone disputes?
Re: Free Me
by mrsnacks » Tue Oct 26, 2010 2:25 pm
Sheep, I'm still struggling with this myself, I was close to where you were. Would you say that
beliefs arise which are just thoughts anyway, but there is no believer ? And they are not my beliefs
because there is no "me." Just beliefs.
So there is no "I" to believe anything. So when you say discard all beliefs what I see is that that is
done when once it is seen that there is no "me."
But here's my problem - then there is no me to take ownership. And beliefs become irrelevant and
meaningless.
Re: Free Me
by sheep » Tue Oct 26, 2010 5:15 pm
mrsnacks wrote:
“Would you say that beliefs arise which are just thoughts anyway, but there is no believer ?
And they are not my beliefs because there is no "me." Just beliefs. So there is no "I" to
believe anything.”
Yeah.
mrsnacks wrote:
“So when you say discard all beliefs what I see is that that is done when once it is seen that
there is no "me." Then there is no me to take ownership. And beliefs become irrelevant and
meaningless.”
You can discard and have beliefs before and after liberation. For me they didn't play a big role in
cracking this – besides the beliefs that led me here. I was curious, interested. I wanted to know the
truth.
Focus on "there is no me" or "everything exists but me" and see the actual reality of this.
And meaning doesn't go, it's just not your meaning, but then it never was, so nothing is lost.
Re: Free Me
by mrsnacks » Tue Oct 26, 2010 10:18 pm
I am so glad you made that comment about one can have beliefs before and after liberation. I like
the focusing on everything exists but me. It is a strange feeling that arises. Very empty and space-
like. The seeing of it all with the "me" not being there. Interesting. Thanks.
Re: Free Me
by Ronztrek » Tue Oct 26, 2010 11:44 pm
Hey, sheep - welcome home, bro!
Re: Free Me
by StepVheN » Wed Oct 27, 2010 12:10 am
Congrats, sheep. Great to have you out and onboard. I'm proud of ya, man.
Re: Free Me
by Ronztrek » Wed Oct 27, 2010 12:54 am
StepVheN wrote:
“Congrat,s sheep. Great to have you out and onboard. I'm proud of ya, man.”
Pride is a sin. LOL
Re: Free Me
by Kakistos » Wed Oct 27, 2010 1:24 am
Ronztrek wrote:
“Welcome home bro!”
This.
This is much better than 'welcome to the war'.
Re: Free Me
by Ciaran » Wed Oct 27, 2010 1:49 am
Kakistos wrote:
"This.
This is much better than 'welcome to the war'."
No it isn't. It cannot fall to us to rest, to sit back, to relax. This cannot be our driving force, we
cannot focus on the peace to come to motivate us for what we have to do.
There is too much lie, too much deceit, too much weakness. I'll not have this spoken here. We do
not welcome people home. If they can sit among the screaming of this planet and feel at home, they
are monstrous in the eyes of all honest people.
It is monstrosity that we see if we are clear in our vision. This is a rude awakening. And there is no
level of compromise which we can make with this deepest of deceits.
The slumber that humanity is in is not benign. It is the source of all screaming darkness. It is the
thing that makes the worst among us the most powerful and strong, and the best among us weak and
riven. We need this thing dead. Dead on a global scale, and no level of peace, comfort or
homecoming can be had by any honest human until this war is done.
So welcome to war, sheep. I hope you're better than your name suggests.
Re: Free Me
by Squirrel » Sat Oct 30, 2010 12:36 am
Hey, Sheep.
You seem to be one of the few 'slow burners' that took a while to click. It seems most people take a
few days or less.
I'm approaching 1.5 weeks and don't see myself getting there. Did you change the way you thought
about things?
I'm not looking for any new info regarding getting freed - only your approach and mentality. I find
myself running through frustration, anger, being depressed by the thought I may never get it, then
back to positive and focused. Did you experience the same? Thanks.
Re: Free Me
Squirrel wrote:
“Hey, Sheep.
You seem to be one of the few 'slow burners' that took a while to click. It seems most
people take a few days or less.
I'm approaching 1.5 weeks and don't see myself getting there. Did you change the way you
thought about things?”
Hi Squirrel. Just have the idea in your head and it's only a matter of time. Sometimes this
"liberation thing" was my first thought in the morning and last thing at night, sometimes I didn't
think about for a day or so.
But it was always at least in my subconscious, because I had a hunch it was true. I'm sure it
resonated with you too. That's why you're still here.
Squirrel wrote:
“I find myself running through frustration, anger, being depressed by the thought I may
never get it, then back to positive and focused. Did you experience the same?”
Yeah, I did.
I was frustrated, angry and depressed - but I didn't exist. Then or now.
I'm writing this but I don't exist.
The first "I" isn't the same as the second. Look at it like that.
The experience of me being frustrated, angry an depressed exists, but I don't exist. Why would I?
Why add something?
You see truth all the time, you just have to realise that this is it.
Chapter 8:
Just “Liberated”
Just "Liberated"
by fenderim » Wed Sep 29, 2010 3:08 am
Okay, I think I cracked the thing.
I had been reading a lot of shite on the Arena, the blog, and Ciaran's book.
Decided to take a look . . .
I had been staring at it for some time to no result. Then I started thinking about the whole idea of
"identification" and how my idea of "self" was kind of this transient thing that took residence within
different things. Like I would think that it was me seeing or me thinking...but really it's just like this
phantom process that doesn't actually have any real identity. It just identifies with already existing
things and tries to make it seem like that is what it is.
Like you look at a reflection in the mirror and there's this compulsion to be like "that's me". But
there is no you. There is no substance to it. It tries to wear the clothing of things that exist because it
doesn't exist itself.
But let's be clear about something...
Knowing this does not give someone philosophical knowledge. I have seen a lot of wack beliefs
mentioned by people on this Arena that have no basis in reality.
OK, yes you have stopped the process of "identification with form", but this doesn't suddenly mean
that your philosophical foundations are correct by any stretch of the imagination.
Re: Just "Liberated"

fenderim wrote:
“Okay, I think I cracked the thing.
I had been reading a lot of shite on the Arena, the blog, and Ciaran's book.
Decided to take a look...
I had been staring at it for some time to no result. Then I started thinking about the whole
idea of "identification" and how my idea of "self" was kind of this transient thing that took
residence within different things. Like I would think that it was me seeing or me
thinking...but really it's just like this phantom process that doesn't actually have any real
identity.”
Awesome. Right out of the gates.
Let's hear some more, though. Talk about whatever you want.. Write about what it feels like,
describe "self", use analogies, whatever, but be original.
fenderim wrote:
“It just identifies with already existing things and tries to make it seem like that is what it
is.”
Not real clear on what you're saying here.

by fenderim » Wed Sep 29, 2010 3:33 am
bobby wrote:
“Not real clear on what you're saying here.”
I'm saying that there are these processes happening like thoughts, emotions, consciousness...as well
as physical things like the body. And this "me" process tries to reside in them and take ownership of
them. It doesn't actually have any existence of it's own.
It tries to identify with anything that comes into conscious awareness. Since it doesn't exist, it can
only pretend to exist by using things that do exist. Like there's a thought and then your mind assigns
"me" to it. Or you look at your arm and you think "my arm". It doesn't actually exist anywhere. It
can only pretend to exist by residing in other things.

So is there a you?
The mind of who?
Who looks?
Who's behind that fucking process you talk about?

fenderim wrote:
“I'm saying that there are these processes happening like thoughts, emotions,
consciousness...as well as physical things like the body. And this "me" process tries to reside
in them and take ownership of them. It doesn't actually have any existence of it's own.
It tries to identify with anything that comes into conscious awareness. Since it doesn't exist,
it can only pretend to exist by using things that do exist. Like there's a thought and then your
mind assigns "me" to it. Or you look at your arm and you think "my arm". It doesn't actually
exist anywhere. It can only pretend to exist by residing in other things.”
I don't like your wording of "me process." I doubt you are free.
If you are to convince me you have to be clear as day dude.
If you are liberated you will think clearly and write clearly. Don't leave anything up to
interpretation. If I have to piece things together I will just assume you are not liberated.

I will say this though - I do think you are close.
You have not described the driving force behind thought.
You have not described the illusory self.
That is what you have to figure out.
Don't post in piecemeal. We need one totally clear post from you.

by fenderim » Thu Sep 30, 2010 2:30 am
Yah, you're right bobby. I'm not quite there.
I was looking at this thing more, but just can't see what it is that's being said.
I just can't comprehend how there wouldn't be a "driver" behind the mind.
There is something that focuses attention onto tasks such as thinking, moving, imagining etc.
Now you can choose to allow your thoughts to respond to whatever random stimuli happens to
affect them, or you can focus them in a purposeful way (I.e. you can actually think). It's the same
with any action. You can let your mind go on autopilot or you can take control of it.
fenderim wrote:
“Yah, you're right bobby. I'm not quite there.
I was looking at this thing more, but just can't see what it is that's being said.
I just can't comprehend how there wouldn't be a "driver" behind the mind.
There is something that focuses attention onto tasks such as thinking, moving, imagining
etc.
Now you can choose to allow your thoughts to respond to whatever random stimuli happens
to affect them, or you can focus them in a purposeful way (I.e. you can actually think). It's
the same with any action. You can let your mind go on autopilot or you can take control of
it.”
You're about to tip dude. You're right there.
Listen...
You did not exist before you were born. Life was not given to you, therefore it is not your life.
What then are you?
There is no you to see, just sight
There is no you to think, just thought
There is no you to name or label things, just the naming and labelling
Go for a walk and think about this. Imagine what it's like to be a baby opening it's eyes for the first
time.
Seriously, go for a walk and think. Go now.

by ivanhernandez » Thu Sep 30, 2010 5:43 am
Comprehension isn't you. That driver isn't going to be you. There is no driver.
The driver behind the mind is just a label.
I am "the driver behind the mind" is like I'm "the thinker" you're pointing to some label.
There is something that focuses attention onto tasks such as thinking, moving, imagining etc.
That wouldn't be you. There is no string joining you with a "doer" or a "driver" "thinker" "thoughts"
if there is no string....

fenderim wrote:
“Okay, I think I cracked the thing.
I had been reading a lot of shite on the Arena, the blog and Ciaran's book. Decided to take a
look...
I had been staring at it for some time to no result. Then I started thinking about the whole
idea of "identification" and how my idea of "self" was kind of this transient thing that took
residence within different things. Like I would think that it was me seeing or me
thinking...but really it's just like this phantom process that doesn't actually have any real
identity. It just identifies with already existing things and tries to make it seem like that is
what it is.
Like you look at a reflection in the mirror and there's this compulsion to be like "that's me".
But there is no you. There is no substance to it. It tries to wear the clothing of things that
exist because it doesn't exist itself.
But let's be clear about something...
Knowing this does not give someone philosophical knowledge. I have seen a lot of wack
beliefs mentioned by people on this Arena that have no basis in reality.
OK, yes you have stopped the process of "identification with form", but this doesn't
suddenly mean that your philosophical foundations are correct by any stretch of the
imagination.”
MINE!
Come on guys, Bobby, Ivan, stop fucking with this dude. He sees it.
Bobby, pushing people to be clear is great, it's great that you do it, it's great that they do it, it's great
in general.
But. You have to stop throwing up philosophical obstacles in front of people. He does not need to
know the technical origin of the illusion of self for him to see that it is an illusion.
Yes, it's interesting. Yes, it's cool to know. Yes, when he starts trying to explain this to people, he'll
need to have a good answer for that question, and when he does, great.
But.
Stop telling this kid he's not free, when he clearly is. There's no lights from on high, no bells and
whistles. It's just a rush of freedom and clarity. That's what it feels like, and this guy obviously has
that.
The other thing is that he's talking about this, bringing up some really strong insights into the deep
dynamics of it. His pointing out that it doesn't touch the philosophical or belief content of a
person's mind is absolutely bang on.
And it's really important. If we're going around trying to smash down everyone's beliefs before we
get to the “so anyway, look at this” point, we're going to be here a long time. We'll make a lot of
enemies, and we'll just get bogged down.
Because this has nothing to do with belief at all, there's no need or reason for us to be fucking
around inside people's belief structures. I mean, unless they're some hardcore Advaita fanatics who
just have this shit totally ass-backward. Yes. Then we need to – but only then.
Not picking fights we don't need to pick is mission critical if we're going to scale this. If this
freedom is going to spread, we don't want to just have a lot of people who agree. That's madness,
totally pointless. Agreeing with this? Believing in this? Pointless.
As a belief it might as well be a belief in the curative powers of tea tree oil. Which I'm sure are
very good and everything, but won't get you free of the emotional feedback that destroys people's
lives.
Self. Self. Self.
The ultimate lie, the ultimate fiction. Life is real, but self is a lie. This. This is all. I have no
interest in getting someone up to speed on the philosophical dynamics of self – yes, I ask newly
liberated about it, because it's a great way of getting a fix on their position within this whole fucking
mess.
But dude. You cannot tell someone they're not free because they don't know X, whatever X is. Do
you think Jesus could expound on the interference pattern between the causal matrix of human
thought and the beingness of reality as such?
Uh... no. Jewish ways of thinking at the time would have meant he probably never even thought to
look at it like this. But what are you going to say, that Jesus wasn't free?
That's total nonsense, no-one with any serious grounding in the philosophical reality of what we
have done here could possibly question that man's liberation. Astounding depth. Astounding
insight. Incredible courage, incredible compassion and ultimately a refusal to bend his knee to
hypocrisy – a refusal that cost him his life.
That dude was free. Seriously. And whereas Buddha sat down with his philosophy surrounded by
adoring admirers, spoke with princes and kings and died of old age, Jesus just fucking went for the
jugular. Straight to the Temple. Start a fucking riot.
That's what a fucking man does. Not sit on a scented cushion surrounded by adoring admirers.
Because Jesus faced that choice, he faced it in the desert and he dismissed it out of hand. As
bullshit. As cowardice. As self indulgence in the face of a burning world.
These are the actions of a fucking man, in the best possible sense of that word. They cannot have
been easy, and he died a death you would not wish on a rabid fucking animal. He did it because he
believed something.
And what he believed was NOT that there is no self. He didn't believe that. Neither do I. Neither
do you, Bobby, or you, Ivan. He saw it, he saw the truth, and the truth set him free.
What he believed, however, was that a free man who cares to call himself a man MUST accept that
there are bonds of duty and responsibility to his people. To the world. To a world in agony, and
torment.
Buddha nodded his head toward that. Jesus gave his fucking life. That's a man. That's what we
need, people like Jesus. People who give a shit. People who care.
I am fucking done with freeing indolent weaklings who see this charnel house of a world as a
playground for the free. Who see freedom as anaesthetic for their consciences, so they smile
serenely next time the news is talking about some kid who was butchered by his own parent,
because they were so fucking lost in their own selves they did it for fun.
We need men. And women. Not boys and girls. Fucking adults, people who have grown the fuck
up, who are serious about their world and know that seeing the stakes we play with makes our own
lives a fucking irrelevance, as mine is a fucking irrelevance, as yours is. Jesus saw that. It didn't
make him very fucking happy. Reports are he sweated blood from stress knowing he was going to
die, horrifically. But he fucking stayed. He fucking stayed in that garden and he fucking took it.
As best he could. As best he fucking could.
He knew that the scale of what he'd seen rendered his life irrelevant. Kakistos sees this. StepVhen
sees this. Kevin sees this. I see it. The truth. In real life, we can free this fucking world, this
generation, this one. If we fucking move. That is what this is. One fucking chance, one real,
honest to God chance after God alone knows how many fucking years.
Soldiers. This world needs soldiers. People who are disciplined. Who care. Who fight. Who
endure. Who stay on target, who don't get distracted. Who take direction. Who do not treat this
like a fucking episode of an exciting fucking TV show where they are the hero.
Who knuckle the fuck down and just make this shit occur.
This shit is too important to be fucking around with. Get it broadcast. Get it big. Quickly. Each
day that passes with this lie sucking the life out of the world is another day of needless damage that
our complacency has rendered possible.
All this shit, all this – comes from the fact that this insight is not a belief. It's not that at all. It's got
nothing to do with that. It's a completely different kind of animal.
Fenderim comes across brilliantly here – and Fenderim? Take what you want from Bobby, but I'll
wager my beating heart on your freedom, mate. You are free.
Look – at this stage, we've shown we can free people, even serious hard cases. Fine.
But we've also seen something else – that things like cowardice and weakness, a poor control over
yourself, complacency – all these things survive into the liberated state.
Shit.
Ok, new plan. We need to focus on freeing people who give a shit. People who care. I have freed a
lot of people now, and I am fucking sick to my gills of having to perform open heart surgery on
their soul to get them to give a fuck about their species.
Time and again, over and over I free people who turn around, say “Thanks, Ciaran, now I don't have
to worry or suffer anymore because of all the horrible shit going on in the world.”
It makes me want to fucking vomit.
What the fuck is this? What the fuck are these people saying, that the only reason they ever gave a
shit or even seemed to was because they we're able to just flick a switch and fuck off?
I hear this shit all the time.
We are so fucking beaten down in our souls, we are such a defeated species from the long millennia
of suffering and pointless agony that it is rare to find someone who just sees what needs to be done.
But there are those who have not yet surrendered their fucking spirit, or their desire to win this
fucking world back from the shit that has it choking.
And do you know what?
I'd rather spend a fucking month freeing just one Christian, through all the minefields of beliefs and
dogmas that stand between them and one moment of opening their eyes, then spend a day freeing a
thousand Buddhists who simply don't give a fuck.
I did not spend 15 years of my life and wade through oceans of broken relationships, broken hopes
and my own broken mind so I could give people a happy Zen buzz. I did it because I believed that
if a man has the chance to help people, he also has a duty to take that chance.
That is all I have done, and here we are.
There is incredible truth in Buddhism, incredible truth. But truth is not sufficient. Truth needs to be
brought and defended, not just seen and explored. Christians may be rigid, they may be obtuse and
fucking arrogant at times. But there are hearts beating in those chests. And this is not about being
wise. This is about actually fucking caring, in real life, about what happens to real people.
Buddhism has, literally, been sitting on this freedom for thousands of years. How many Buddhists
are free? How many? Ten? A hundred? You tell me.
The worst thing is, you can't even do that, because you can barely tell. A Buddhist who's not free
sits and meditates. A Buddhist who is free sits and meditates.
Not cool.
Some people have said to me... actually, quite a lot of people have said to me – that Christians are
so deeply mired in belief that they have lost the ability to look. I have heard this over and over. I
have seen free people levelling incredible degrees of insight at Christians, that the Christians just
shrug off because it doesn't come with a Jesus logo.
And it's even harder to take Christianity seriously when it starts spouting shit like Creationism, or
saying that Obama is the Antichrist.
All that does is humiliate Christ by demonstrating that the people who follow him have fucking
blinded themselves to reality like a bunch of fucking cowards, and live only in a fucking dream
world where they are the heroes.
Vanity. Pride. Lies. Cowardice.
Yes – there is a serious vein of corruption in modern Christianity. A serious vein. A vein which
leaves honesty behind in favour of getting your beliefs perfectly in line with what you think a “good
Christian” believes. It's fucking tragic, yes. It's not even new, it's where shit like the Inquisition
came from – that kind of thinking.
The ultimate irony of this failure is that it is a failure of one thing and one thing only – faith. If a
Christian has true faith in God they will relentlessly and honestly challenge their beliefs in the
deepest possible ways – because they have faith that honesty will always lead them back to God.
A Christian who hides their beliefs away from outside influence, or only dabbles in challenging it to
'spice things up' – that is a stunning failure of faith in God. That's what you're looking at. That's
what it is.
Which means that actually, when you really look at it, the main problem with Christianity today is
that is has no faith.
Ok. That's fine. It takes faith in truth to challenge belief. That's all it takes, but it does take that.
And that's not just a Christian thing, by the way. That's a people thing. Faith. Faith in reality, faith
in truth, faith that if you leave your beliefs behind, you'll find something in reality that's better than
them.
And I'm not a particularly religious man, but shit – I'm not going to write anything out as
impossible at this stage. I just think that's stupid. I've never had a telegram from the big man in the
sky, but I imagine that relentless, penetrating honesty is a better way to approach him than prayer.
And one other thing - before we write off Christianity, let's never forget that the highest authority to
these people had his fucking head screwed on. That to him, taking responsibility for others was not
a sign of 'spiritual weakness' or 'attachment to the world.'
He saw it as far more important than actually being free – and do you know what? The more and
more I look at this, the more and more sense that makes.
Frankly, some of Jesus' shit was just solid fucking gold. Deny the self, pick up your cross and
follow me? You know what that means?
Deny the self. That doesn't just mean don't buy shit for yourself and eat less – although we all
probably should.
It means deny the fucking self. The self is a fucking lie. It was always a lie. There's nothing
fucking there. Deny it.
Pick up your cross means deal with your fucking bullshit. Don't sit on a fucking mountaintop
blissing out for 20 years so you can say you truly are beyond all crap. What the fuck? What just
happened to the world in those 20 years? What kind of horrors happened to real people because the
world is trapped in this fucking self shit?
No. You've got problems even though you're free? Cry me a fucking river. Pick up your shit. Be a
fucking adult. There are people worse off than you, fucking help them.
And follow me? He didn't fucking mean stand in an auditorium singing Christian Rock. I mean,
fuck. If that poor bastard ever does come back I think he'll weep again the second he hears the
Jonas Brothers. I would. I do, actually, they are shit.
Follow me does not mean turn your fucking brain off, believe X, Y and Z and start trying to
convince everyone else to turn their fucking brain off.
It means get to fucking work.
GET. TO. WORK.
This atom-shallow, feelings and emotion-based Christianity we have? I don't think it sits very well
with a lot of Christians. I think they hate it, and I think they're right to hate it.
Christianity was never about feelings, and it was never about emotions. It was about action, and the
truth.
I'll take a Christian over a Buddhist any day of the week. Until of course, I find a Buddhist who
gives a shit.
I haven't yet.
That said of course, I have yet to find a Christian who'll fucking listen. They're so fucking
complacent, that's their problem. Just this simpering fucking wetness about them, like they're made
of rotting honey.
That fake polite smile plastered across homophobic bigotry, and bullshit moral stances on
contraception and abortion that make the man they claim to worship a fucking joke in the eyes of
the world.
That stunning haughtiness, dressed up in caveats about how they're open for discussion about their
beliefs? It fools no-one. It's not honesty.
The irony is that the person who's work they claim to follow would probably beat each one of them
to within an inch of their lives for being so fucking obtuse.
But let's not, in the face of all this, think that there are easy answers in speaking to people who
claim to be 'rational'.
Atheism, for instance, is a ridiculous intellectual position that can only be held by dishonest people.
They roll out the same stock arguments, casting doubt over facile elements of facile interpretations
of religious texts, then leap like gazelles to a certainty they cannot possibly have.
Agnosticism - that I understand. That's just saying - hell, I don't know. That's honest.
A lot of agnostics though? They don't reserve judgement because they've seriously looked and
actually come to that honest conclusion. They just don't care what the truth is either way. These
people are fucking worthless to us, to themselves, and to the world in which they live.
But yeah - atheists. I think the worst excesses of atheism are typified by Richard "I know
everything" Dawkins.
That's not honesty. I've never seen Dawkins actually engage with all but the most shallow form of
religious belief. It's not about the truth for him. It's about him for him.
There is a difference between challenging people's beliefs because you've found something true -
like Galileo did - and challenging people's beliefs because you like to pretend you're like Galileo.
Dawkins is an arrogant man, and all he's succeeded in doing is to give the most delusional and
destructive form of Christianity proof that 'science hates them' and 'there is no middle ground.'
He is a disgrace to the scientific establishment, and feeds the beast he claims to fight. He has no
subtlety of mind, no level of insight. There's just him throwing his 'clever analysis' at the lowest
form of religious belief, then claiming to be a crusader.
The man's a fucking idiot.
He is not rational. What he actually is, is quite ironic. He's a priest. He's a high priest of the cult of
cleverness. He worships it like it's a God. That's pathetic, and a stunning intellectual failure from a
man who only seems capable of this haughty, dismissive and pathetic charade of having something
to say.
He hasn't said anything original since 1982, and the entire God Delusion could have been produced
by a pissed off teenager with a thesaurus.
There's a certain kind of arrogance in the intelligentsia of the West. They revel in their cleverness.
It is so weak. It combines the very worst elements of Western civilisation. The total cultural
arrogance, the placing of analysis over honesty and that worthless "well, if you think I'm wrong,
you convince me" attitude.
If you are wrong - that's YOUR responsibility to find out. No-one else's.
The crazy thing - and yes, ironies like this pop up in every kind of idolatry - that people who
worship rationality are utterly irrational to do so. And utterly irrational, just in general.
It's not be crunching numbers that we get to the truth. It's by having the courage to ask hard
questions, and stomach hard answers. And if maths is involved, fine.
But don't think for one second that clever mental gymnastics can get you what honesty can.
They cannot.t
There are honest people. They do exist.
So what we're really looking for is Buddhists who give a shit, Christians who'll listen, and rational
people who are actually rational.
I remember Kakistos's freedom, and looking back, I don't think I appreciated it as much as I should
have done at the time. He broke free, and in that same instant immediately saw what I was doing,
why I was doing it, why it had to be done.
That's a fucking man. That's what a man does.
And sure, Fenderim hasn't fully fucking twigged to the scale of this, but I see serious engagement in
his words. Serious engagement and serious insight. That is not to be sniffed at.
So let's not sniff.
Fenderim. Welcome to the war.
Chapter 9:
It Makes Sense Now
It makes sense now

by Unison » Thu Nov 11, 2010 7:44 pm
First off, an introduction. I am Zach, age of 18. Was raised Christian, though at a young age decided
it is unsustainable. Don't want to delve too deeply into a life story, but a summary never hurts.
Another summary is in order, that of my "spiritual" progression. Long after rejecting Christianity, I
sought other avenues for "spiritual truth". You could say I was still caught in a "fuzzy thought"
cloud. This went on for a few years, and I became the epitome of good morals. I was no saint, but
reasonable and fair. I was proud of this, I was great.
My main drive was logic. Finding logical reasons for good morals, logical reasons to do the "right
thing". For the most part it was a success, I found a deep understanding of human morals. Again, I
was no saint, and I could be a dick at times, as everyone else. But I was highly reasonable, and I
wanted to develop further. I had happiness itself down to a science. This marked the beginning of
my love for "philosophy", as I called it.
Later, at one point, something inside me just didn't "click". The level happiness and righteousness I
had achieved...it was there, but why? This brought despair, somewhere I knew that this happiness
was built upon lies. I could not let that realization surface, I had no choice but to feed it more lies.
Much as I found Christianity unsustainable, I began to feel my entire psyche, and everything I had
become proud of, was unsustainable in the same way.
This created a state...I can't even call it a depression. It was more of an anxiety, directed inward. At
rate the lies were falling apart, I was adding lies, to sustain the perpetual lie I called myself. I'm
pretty sure I began to lose some of my sanity. There was nothing I could do to feel comfortable. I
could not sit and relax, all I could do is fight to sustain my collapsing mind. This went on for two
years.
Eventually it became too much, and I could not keep fighting it. In an instant, I involuntarily
allowed my delusions to collapse. Or they simply collapsed on their own. Doesn't matter. Then what
happened? Interestingly enough, nothing.
Except that I was no longer fighting. Suddenly I was no longer filtering negative emotions, or "bad
energy". I was experiencing all of it. I found my own key, and that is to simply allow, accept.
Simple enough. The following years I looked further into what I had experienced, and took a
serious interest into the works of Alan Watts. I was quickly drawn to Buddhism.
Not to be a Buddhist, myself, but to understand their principles. Something rang true about them.
I had successfully found that there is no "I", that the self is an illusion, all that exists is sheer
experience. But there was something missing. They had the real key, but I was unable to get it to
turn. I was unable to feel the overpowering bliss of what they called enlightenment, what you call
liberation.
What a crock. After reading the post "The Thunder And The Sunshine" by Ciaran, it makes sense.
Freedom isn't freedom from negativity and hate. That's abstinence. Freedom is freedom to
experience. That's it. That last piece I was missing, was so subtle. Right in front of my face.
Re: It makes sense now

by Unison » Thu Nov 11, 2010 7:56 pm
I would like to add . . . I plan to remain on this Arena. It is clear to me, that the human mind, as a
collective, is deeply flawed. I want this to change.

by Kevin » Fri Nov 12, 2010 12:27 am
Kay.
Here's the deal.
Is there a you?
Is there a you in any sense?
Why?
That's all your next post needs to be about.
Go deep into detail. Give me as much of what you know as possible. Wax lyrical, but don't get too
poetic. Be crystal clear; your focus is on communicating your meaning. "Why is there no you?"
Spill the beans.

by Unison » Fri Nov 12, 2010 12:41 am
To answer the question simply, no. There is not. The thoughts and experiences do not have any
origin. They are not happening to anyone, they are merely there and can be experienced.
There is an experience of self, an experience of "Zach", but it's just that. An experience. Zach is an
experience, or an event, if you will. Zach is not something that happened to something/someone
else, and Zach is not what something/someone has become.
Zach is not an entity experiencing the experience of Zach, Zach is merely an experience which is.
Unison wrote:
“To answer the question simply, no. There is not.”
Yep.
Unison wrote:
“The thoughts and experiences do not have any origin.”
Yep. This is good.
Unison wrote:
“They are not happening to anyone, they are merely there and can be experienced.”
Yeah.
Unison wrote:
“There is an experience of self, an experience of "Zach", but it's just that. An experience.
Zach is an experience, or an event, if you will.”
Event or happening is a much clearer way of saying it. Good.
Unison wrote:
“Zach is not something that happened to something/someone else, and Zach is not what
something/someone has become. Zach is not an entity experiencing the experience of Zach,
Zach is merely an experience which is.”
Solid.
You're still a little fuzzy around the edges. Make it sharper, make it clearer. Cut to the heart of the
matter. It took double takes on your sentences to understand. Be crystal clear. Okay?
This is your tool: Occam's scalpel.
You zero in on lies of self and assumptions of I, and you cut them out. You ignore everything else.
You do not need to destroy, challenge or even involve any belief or idea any more than you involve
your beliefs and ideas when you look at a plate of food.
And your reason for doing this is to keep a straight, open line to the gateway: there is no you and it
is something that needs to be honestly engaged with. That's your key. That's the only key.
Alright.
Once more.
Is there a you in any sense? How is this true?
Secondly, what is the difference between the unenlightened and the liberated state?
Most importantly, what are you gonna do with your freedom?

by StepVheN » Fri Nov 12, 2010 9:00 am
Unison wrote:
“To answer the question simply, no. There is not. The thoughts and experiences do not have
any origin. They are not happening to anyone, they are merely there and can be
experienced.
There is an experience of self, an experience of "Zach", but it's just that. An experience.
Zach is an experience, or an event, if you will. Zach is not something that happened to
something/someone else, and Zach is not what something/someone has become. Zach is not
an entity experiencing the experience of Zach, Zach is merely an experience which is.”
Okay this is cool.
You never existed, you imagined that you did, then worked up a load of conclusions about that
thought, but these musings in your mind are not the self, they simply point to a self that was never
there, you just thought it was.
As Kevin said, this is a little fuzzy. It doesn't mean you're not free, but you're still tripping yourself
up. Just think out logically what it was that caused this illusion of self and post about it. That'll
give you some practise.

The heart of the matter...
Now this is tough. When I (you know what I mean :P) try and explain the heart of it, all that's there
is silence.
Is there "I" in any sense? Nope. There are thoughts, some of which have "I" attached to them. But
this "I" is not the origin of the thought. In fact, "I" is a thought.

Forgot to add.
I want this to stop. The world is chasing its own tail, looking for happiness for itself where there
isn't and cannot be one. I want to change this.
by StepVheN » Fri Nov 12, 2010 9:09 am
Unison wrote:
“The heart of the matter...
Now this is tough. When I (you know what I mean :P) try and explain the heart of it, all
that's there is silence.
Is there "I" in any sense? Nope. There are thoughts, some of which have "I" attached to
them. But this "I" is not the origin of the thought. In fact, "I" is a thought.”
Here's the thing about self – it doesn't EVEN exist as a thought.
There are thoughts ABOUT self but no thought is the actual self all others refer to.
Because thoughts are just thoughts, no thought can exist as a self.
That "I" thought they talk about is just a 'description of self' not the actual self
You follow?

StepVheN wrote:
“Here's the thing about self – it doesn't EVEN exist as a thought.
There are thoughts ABOUT self but no thought is the actual self all others refer to.
Because thoughts are just thoughts, no thought can exist as a self.
That "I" thought they talk about is just a 'description of self' not the actual self
You follow?”
I do follow, and I agree entirely. :)

I apologize if I'm being to vague or beating around the bush.
To be frankly honest, I'm finding this too simple to explain. Get that! Too simple to explain!
When you asked me to get to the heart of the issue, I attempted to look for where the thoughts are
originating. The answer is just silence. It's not coming from "me"....it's not coming from anything.

Unison wrote:
“I apologize if I'm being to vague or beating around the bush.
To be frankly honest, I'm finding this too simple to explain. When you asked me to get to the
heart of the issue, I attempted to look for where the thoughts are originating. The answer is
just silence. It's not coming from "me"....it's not coming from anything.”
Not at all, mate. I understand entirely. I know where you're at. I'm just giving you one more push.
RANT.
What you did right now there with that? That was honest. That was honest engagement.
That's what works. That's what'll free the world.
Use it.
RANT, right here, right now. Keep bloody typing, and fucking be incoherent if you must, but say
something. You're a newborn, flailing about, but you have to get the message across.
One more, Ace. Give it a good fuckin' shot. I want to see you breathe fire.

by Unison » Sat Nov 13, 2010 1:32 am
There is no self. We are fucking one. There just is. God dammit!! The one is struggling over trying
to find it's identity. It's right fucking here. It's so goddamn fucking simple.
I want to say the world is fighting itself, but no, I am fighting myself. Experience itself is acting as
it's own parasite. It's trying to separate itself to develop it's own identity, when that cannot be,
because reality is a UNITY.
FUCK! Animals understand it. They see through their eyes as do humans, but never project a self.
Humans boast themselves, with the ability to "project" emotions, and to share sympathy. That is an
extension of the self concept. It is a mechanism humans are using for their survival.
I WANT A GOD DAMN PLAN. I want this to spread. I want to devote myself to making this real. I
feel restrained where I am living, that no one will accept what I am telling them. I see every fucking
day, my"self", the universe, damaging itself by trying to separate from the whole. It cannot happen,
but the very attempt is detrimental. There can be no progression. I want a way to make this happen,
to make this big.
I'll do anything I can to work with you all here.
-- Sorry if that seemed a bit incoherent. I just typed everything that came to mind.

by Unison » Sat Nov 13, 2010 1:41 am
I just want to add that I'm fucking pissed.

by Kevin » Sat Nov 13, 2010 3:17 am
Unison wrote:
“There is no self.”
Yeah.
Unison wrote:
“We are fucking one.”
No. There's no we. Don't make this mistake again
Unison wrote:
“There just is.”
Yeah. This is a little fuzzy though. Avoid anything fuzzy, anything mystical, anything that obscures
your meaning.
Unison wrote:
“God dammit!! The one is struggling over trying to find it's identity.”
See above.
Unison wrote:
“It's right fucking here. It's so goddamn fucking simple. I want to say the world is fighting
itself, but no, I am fighting myself. Experience itself is acting as it's own parasite. It's trying
to separate itself to develop it's own identity, when that cannot be, because reality is a
UNITY.”
That's a lot better. Stick with that. Keep that fire and clarity.
Unison wrote:
“FUCK! Animals understand it. They see through their eyes as do humans, but never
project a self. Humans boast themselves, with the ability to "project" emotions, and to share
sympathy. That is an extension of the self concept. It is a mechanism humans are using for
their survival.”
Except their not using it for their survival. It's using them for its survival. The fictional self if
piggybacking on humanity as a cancer.
It doesn't realise that it's killing it's host.
Think. This is not symbiosis. This is parasitism. The lie of self adds nothing to life, all it does is
consume. Once you see through it, nothing is lost. It is a parasite, if it's anything.
Unison wrote:
“I WANT A GOD DAMN PLAN. I want this to spread. I want to devote myself to making this
real.”
Good. Glad you're in. There's a plan. There's a way.
Here's what you do.
Don't get locked on by the self; you have to outpace the stim. You need to be whatever the situation
calls for you to be.
You do that by deep looking; that honest engagement that got you free, is what will free the world,
and keep you out of trouble.
You look deeply into the truth of the situation, so that you'll know, specifically, the what, and the
why.
Then, you use Occam's Scalpel to cut out the self from the situation.
Alright?
You use Deep Looking to navigate your way, and once you've found the lie of self, carve it out.
You don't attack anything else. Just remove the lie of self. That's how you don't trigger defense
mechanisms, that's how you don't lose too much blood.
This is surgical.
No need to start fucking around with beliefs. This is important. Many beliefs, even quite wacky
ones, have some actual truth in them. Like liberation, for instance. That's a wacky belief, but as I
think you've probably noticed, that doesn't stop it from being real.
Just the 'self'. That the only thing that you cut out. Occam's Scalpel. You look deeply, then you go
in and pull out the self. In every situation.
Then you point to the gateway: there is no you.
Deep looking is what gives your actions the weight of truth behind them. Occam's Scalpel is how
you remove obstacles. Continuing to do this is what gives them the open line to looking at the thing
that will free them.
Unison wrote:
“I feel restrained where I am living, that no one will accept what I am telling them. I see
every fucking day, my"self", the universe, damaging itself by trying to separate from the
whole. It cannot happen, but the very attempt is detrimental. There can be no progression. I
want a way to make this happen, to make this big.”
See what you're doing there?
This is good. This means you care. This shows you that it's important.
But cut out the self.
In what you're doing, and in what's going on around you, and in people.
That's how this ends.
Got it?
Remove your self from the equation. You become whatever is needed.
Don't get locked on to a self; expand your freedom with deep looking and Occam's Scalpel.
I'll do anything I can to work with you all here.
Glad to have you here, mate. We get a lot of people walking away once they're free. Glad to have
you. Really.
Unison wrote:
“-- Sorry if that seemed a bit incoherent. I just typed everything that came to mind.”
It was honest. That's the most important part out of it all.
Never lose that honesty.
Keep pushing that; raise the bar of your honesty as high as you can.
Align your compass to truth, and you'll be untouchable.
Unison wrote:
“I just want to add, that I'm fucking pissed.”
Anger is the honest response to untruth.
Understanding eliminates the useless flailing of anger whilst keeping the fuel it brings.
Seek to understand. Seek truth in what's going on.
Then your anger will be useful.
Good job on getting free, mate. Welcome.
Now, get here on the forums, get out on the internet, and start fighting like a madman.
Deep looking, Occam's Scalpel, Gateway. These will serve you. Learn to wield them well.
The Pit is your training ground now. Get good. Get better than Ciaran.
Be the best out of all of us. Make the hard choices no one else will make. Be that person that'll end
this.
And remember, kids;
"The enemy gate is down."

by Kevin » Sat Nov 13, 2010 3:22 am
Putting you on the list. Credit Ciaran, unless you say otherwise.
That puts you on 36, you crazy bastard.

by Ciaran » Sat Nov 13, 2010 5:55 am
I'm not crazy, I'm just big boned. And this isn't mine, this is yours Kevin. You get credit on this,
you took him over the edge.
And fucking how. That was fucking legendary. I mean, seriously, Kevin, that was fucking
incredible. Every fucking word. Brilliant. Just fucking brilliant, mate. I'm looking for something
to single out for special comment, but I can't - that was sick, and you know I don't joke about this
shit.

by Unison » Sat Nov 13, 2010 8:54 pm
Kevin wrote:
“No. There's no we. Don't make this mistake again.”
Noted. The mistake was in the way I expressed it. I will watch out for things like that.
Kevin wrote:
“Now, get here on the forums and start fighting like a madman.
Deep looking, Occam's Scalpel, Gateway. These will serve you. Learn to wield them well.
The Pit is your training ground now. Get good. Get better than Ciaran.”
Great. I need to work on getting it right to the point. I will do that.
Thanks for the help.

by Kevin » Sat Nov 13, 2010 11:29 pm
Hey, settle this for us.
Who gets the credit for your liberation?

by Unison » Sat Nov 13, 2010 11:42 pm
Between you and Ciaran, you.
Keep in mind most of this I have already learned. My last straw was to break free of that
romanticizing bullshit. I had a sort of "thought police" going on, and I give you credit for ridding
me of that.

by Kevin » Sat Nov 13, 2010 11:59 pm
Whoa.
Ok. Cool. That's three. Cheers, Zach.
Also.
You've taken the spot of the youngest.
:)
by Unison » Sun Nov 14, 2010 12:45 am
Cheers, Kevin :)
I have been doing some experimenting with my thought processes (watching them, mostly). I
brought some "I" back, to see how it works, essentially. It is painful. Extremely painful.
How can people live like that? How did I live like that?
Chapter 10:
“I” Need A Push
"I" need a push

by JohnnyZampano » Mon Nov 08, 2010 10:03 pm
I stumbled across this Arena last night and like what I found.
Read "The Thunder and The Sunshine" today, Ciaran's big piece about all the shit he went through
to crack this - long but good. I am not the smartest or most intellectual person about so bear with
me.
I "understand" the concept of no-self. Obviously I don't realize it yet, and there is a big difference.
The body and mind are separate, but rely on each other and are interconnected. As for the self, there
is no self.
I understand that when "we" are born, it is just a baby, a human form emerging into the world. That
baby does not have a concept of "I" when it cries it does not think "I am hungry, what the fuck is
going on, I'm crying" rather the form of the baby cries and that's that.
Somewhere along the line that form is told it is (name) and it is this body, these are your parents...
so and so on, throughout life every single thing that form encounters as it grows feeds into the lie
that the child has an identity.
Grades in school, status, society, parents, everything reinforces the idea of self.
Here I've read to try and see there is no self. I see there is and never has been a need for the self, in
every action the self is not necessary, more like extra baggage. There is what is going on, and the
awareness of what is going on... Then this "self". The self really has nothing to do with what
happens, it just thinks it does.
Today while in the middle of The Thunder and The Sunshine I took a break and walked outside. "I"
feel "I" got pretty close. Doing slow meditative laps around the backyard though the leaves I came
to the conclusion self has never been needed in any part of my life.
Putting my bare foot down onto the fallen leaves, I realized "I" was not experiencing this. Rather
my foot was crunching the leaves, which produced sensations which then travelled to my brain,
there the brain processed what was going on thus the body made sense of what happened. In that
moment no self was needed or present, possibly a moment of clarity.
But nothing lasting, no sense of self dropping out, or a loss of me. My head hurt from all the
thinking and when I went back inside the feeling eventually went away.
I have had moments of pure awareness before, and often after meditation am more easily able to be
that awareness without the thinking mind, simply be aware of the sensations of what ever I am
doing, walking brushing my teeth etc. But the self is still there, always there.
Push me bitches :)
Re: "I" need a push
by StepVheN » Mon Nov 08, 2010 10:40 pm
Johnny, you're on the edge, what you need to do is just focus . See that no there is no you and what
is left ? This is a yin yang thing going on here. There is no you, there is only life. See both.
You are not real. Life is real. That's both sides of the coin.
Focus on the fact that you is a label put on thoughts. You're so close, explore this, hit it from
different angles. There is no you - so what does that mean about the meaning of life?
There is no you – so what does that mean about relationships?
There is no you – so what does that mean about reality?
Re: "I" need a push

by Ronztrek » Mon Nov 08, 2010 10:51 pm
Push yourself motherfucker.
You seem to have this all figured out already.
Push YOURSELF.
Re: "I" need a push

by Loomis » Mon Nov 08, 2010 10:51 pm
Ask yourself the following: 'If there is no you in the first place, how could it ever drop away?
Re: "I" need a push

StepVheN wrote:
“See that no there is no you and what is left?”
Life being lived, interactions of forms, forms rising and falling. A body and a mind coexisting and
interacting, life being expressed and lived though this form. No bullshit, just life.
StepVheN wrote:
“Focus on the fact that you is a label put on thoughts.”
In pretty much every thought, or every thought that goes though the brain there is an attached "I".
"I" am sitting here, "I" am typing, "I" am being. For as long as "I" can remember, all thoughts have
had this "I" attaching itself to thoughts.
StepVheN wrote:
“There is no you what does that mean about the meaning of life?”
There is no meaning to life. Meaning is created by self. There is just life being lived and
experienced now. Birth, life, death.
StepVheN wrote:
“There is no you what does that mean about relationships?”
There are no relationships? There are interactions, but "relationships" arise out of identified thought
patterns created over time. Only beings interacting with each other in the moment is real. When you
take these interactions and personalize them memories are created, memory upon memory is
complied and identified with. The self relies on these memories to create a relationship and thus
views the other form in the current interaction based on these memories.
StepVheN wrote:
“There is no you what does that mean about reality?”
Reality is not how the self sees it. The self views reality though it's illusion. Everything relates to
the self in one way or another based on past experiences, not how things truly are.
I almost feel as if I am just reciting crap I've read from Tolle or other "spiritual" books and
teachings, also that this is being over thought / analyzed. Sometimes when I try to think about it
hard my brain shuts up, quiets down - almost like the desired effect in meditation, except when I
meditate the mind chatters, but now that I want it to process this it refuses to.
Re: "I" need a push

by Ciaran » Mon Nov 08, 2010 11:07 pm
JohnnyZampano wrote:
“I almost feel as if I am just reciting crap I've read from Tolle or other "spiritual" books and
teachings”
You are reciting crap. That was shit.
Look at the shit you're saying:
“There is no meaning to life. Meaning is created by self. There is just life being lived and
experienced now. Birth, life, death.”
This is total shit.
Meaning is NOT created by the self. THERE IS NO FUCKING SELF. IN REAL LIFE.
There's just nothing fucking there, mate. Nothing. And because there's nothing, it can't create shit.
The only fucking thing it creates is chaos and damage, and that's not because it's a magical chaos
engine, but because it's like a big fucking hole we all keep falling the fuck into.
Meaning is real.
Life is real.
Everything is fucking real.
Everything except you. Your 'self' is something that just isn't fucking real. It is a fucking invention.
There's nothing fucking there, nothing. It refers to nothing. Fuck.
And you didn't even invent it, it's just a fucking interference pattern when we look at life through
the lens of cause and effect. We just fucking assume there's a cause outside it, and something it
effects. YOU. That's what the idea of YOU is, right? Something living life?
There's no fucking you.
And yet you'll deny every fucking thing but this, even going so far as to state that life itself is
devoid of meaning. Mine isn't. Mine's great. What kind of life do you live? No. Life is fucking
meaningful, man, it's just not meaningful to 'something outside life' because there's fucking nothing
outside life.
There's no you. Meaning doesn't need anything to own it for it to be real. NOTHING DOES.
Now respond to StepVhen. He's more patient about shit like this than me.
Re: "I" need a push

StepVheN wrote:
Focus on the fact that you is a label put on thoughts.
Ok. focusing on that. Writings help the process. Stomach grumbles. "I am hungry". No. Body is
hungry.
Need to poop. "I need to use the bathroom" No. Body needs to get rid of processed waste.
Look at keyboard mouse. "That's my mouse". Wrong again, it's a computer mouse that has been
used by "me" or this form. Though this use the mind has identified it as "mine".
"I think I am getting close" HA! More like this brain is getting close to the truth, getting close to
seeing it has been attaching an "I" to everything for as long as the memory go back and that's all it
knows how to do.
A familiar headache is forming... :)
Re: "I" need a push
by JohnnyZampano » Tue Nov 09, 2010 12:12 am
Loomis wrote:
“Ask yourself the following: 'If there is no you in the first place, how could it ever drop
away?'”
By golly I think I got it! But I will let you be the judge of that. This whole thing was feeling kind of
trippy.
So I started writing in a notebook. This is what I wrote, bare with me as it's rambling but I feel it
gets the point across:
There never has been a self.
There has been the illusion of self created by the mind and sustained by the mind.
In every thought the mind has attached an I which was believed to be true - by the mind.
In reality there have just been thoughts as a result from stimuli produced by the body. Once
processed by the brain it adds on the self. This happens so quickly the mind believes this self
experienced the stimuli. When, in fact, the stimuli just happened; that's it. Something was
stimulated. and the brain processed it. End of fucking story.
"If there is no you in the first place, how could it drop away?"
How can something that does not exist cease to exist?
There is no self now.
Re: "I" need a push

by russell88 » Tue Nov 09, 2010 12:17 am
The mind is a projector, but nobody feeds the screens.
Thought just comes.
Consider this: what is a river without a riverbed? What is a body without the environment it
subsists in?
There is no separation - because there is no you to be separate. There is the body. There is thought.
There is no you.
Push it. You`re almost there.
Re: "I" need a push
by JohnnyZampano » Tue Nov 09, 2010 12:21 am
There is no self now.
Shit posted way too quickly by accident. Anyway:
The self only continues to exist because the mind continues to attach a self to thoughts. When the
mind stops attaching a self, a self ceases to exist. Self is based on continued reinforcement from the
mind.
There is no self.
See the truth.
You are a figment of the imagination.
"You" don't exist. Never have, never will.
You only believe you exist because the mind has reinforced this illusion since near birth. Never
questioning. Just accepting that the self is all.
See that you are not real.
This body is real.
This mind is real.
This thought is real.
This writing is happening, but "you" are not doing it. You are not the one who is writing. No one is
writing. Writing is happening because the brain is sending signals though the body to the hand to
"write" what the mind is thinking. No self is involved whatsoever.
You are an imagined creation of the mind based on previous experiences - experienced by this form
and stored in the mind with a self attached - attached by the mind. That's it. You never were.
Who knows how it started, but at some point the mind attached a self to an experience that
happened to this form. For some reason that does not matter the mind attached a self to an
experience and stored it in the memory vault of the mind.
Then another experience happened and the mind once again attached a self. Experience after
experience the mind processed, and instead of letting the process be processed and let go it attached
a self to the experience and stored it.
So when a different experience happened the mind may have drawn upon this stored experience
with the self attached and used the memory to affect and change the perception of the current
experience.
So now the current experience is not being experienced and processed in reality, as it happened.
Instead it is being processed based on previous experiences that the mind stored with a self attached
thus changing how the experience is perceived based on the past and identification of self.
This builds and builds and builds with no questions asked. Soon it is taken as fact. now every single
experience that is processed though the mind first goes though these stored memories with self
attached and is processed based on old self identified experiences.
We no long see and experience things as they happen in reality - but experience them based on past
interactions.
Phew, well that's that.
Re: "I" need a push

by StepVheN » Tue Nov 09, 2010 2:45 am
Ok. focusing on that. Writing help the process. Stomach grumbles. "I am hungry". No. Body
is hungry.
Need to poop. "I need to use the bathroom" No. Body needs to get rid of processed waste.
Yes exactly even those words are simply your minds attempt to label feelings in the body
Look at keyboard mouse. "That's my mouse". Wrong again, it's a computer mouse that has
been used by "me" or this form. Though this use the mind has identified it as "mine".
Exactly there is no you to own it, it is a ball of atoms just like your hand using it
"I think I am getting close" HA! More like this brain is getting close to the truth, getting
close to seeing it has been attaching an "I" to everything for as long as the memory go back
and that's all it knows how to do.
A familiar headache is forming... :)”
You are right there.
Re: "I" need a push

by Ciaran » Tue Nov 09, 2010 11:08 am
Come on people, push this guy over properly. End this.
Ok - Deep Looking 101.
When someone says, "There's no self now," this is a DEAD GIVEAWAY to what they're stuck on.
He's trying to destroy the self. Or 'overcome' the self. Or 'dissolve' the self.
Maybe he's free already, but let's close this down properly. Maybe thinks that's what this is.
Destroying the self. Why isn't it? Anyone?
Address that, and that could be the last thing he needs.
Re: "I" need a push

by StepVheN » Tue Nov 09, 2010 12:53 pm
“There is no self now.”
There is none at all. There never was, can't you see now? That self didn't exist? It's not just that it
doesn't exist – it never existed. You just thought it did. Those thoughts were wrong, though. There
was no you; there never will be.
“The self only continues to exist because the mind continues to attach a self to thoughts.
When the mind stops attaching a self, a self ceases to exist. Self is based on continued
reinforcement from the mind.”
It doesn't continue to exist. Your mind is not attaching a self to thoughts. I just thinks it is. It is not
possible to attach a self to a thought; it is only possible to attach more thoughts to thoughts.
“As long as your mind keeps thinking it is attaching a self to thoughts, it will keep thinking
that it is attaching a self to thoughts.”
It's not. It's attaching thoughts to thoughts. There is no self, there are only thoughts ABOUT self.
All your mind is doing is creating daisy chains of thoughts and hanging them around your neck.
Theses thoughts are not a self, they are about a self. They are no more a self than thoughts of a
unicorn are an actual unicorn.
HUGE difference. There is no self. 'The Self', like a unicorn, can ONLY be thought about, it does
not exist, it can only be imagined. It can not be realised.
There is no self, realise there is no self.
“There is no self.
See the truth.
You are a figment of the imagination.
"You" don't exist. Never have, never will.
You only believe you exist because the mind has reinforced this illusion since near birth.
Never questioning. Just accepting that the self is all.
See that you are not real.”
Yes, Johnny, this is great. Do you see now how you never existed? You just thought you did? Can
you see it?
“This body is real.
This mind is real.
This thought is real.
This writing is happening, but "you" are not doing it. You are not the one who is writing. No
one is writing. Writing is happening because the brain is sending signals though the body to
the hand to "write" what the mind is thinking. No self is involved whatsoever.”
None. There is none. Yes, you're right.
You are right there, right on the edge. Look deeply into the truth of it, see how real it is. That's the
only step left, the only step possible, the only step there ever was.
“You are an imagined creation of the mind based on previous experiences - experienced by
this form and stored in the mind with a self attached - attached by the mind. That's it. You
never were.”
IMAGINED. That's the important part, imagined. There is no you. You just imagined there was.
“Who knows how it started, but at some point the mind attached a self to an experience that
happened to this form. For some reason that does not matter the mind attached a self to an
experience and stored it in the memory vault of the mind.
Then another experience happened and the mind once again attached a self. Experience
after experience the mind processed, and instead of letting the process be processed and let
go it attached a self to the experience and stored it.”
All these things that are being attached – they're just thoughts of self. Not actual self. There is no
self it's all just thoughts. You're clearing back those thoughts now to see the truth.
“So when a different experience happened the mind may have drawn upon this stored
experience with the self attached and used the memory to effect and change the perception
of the current experience.”
Exactly !! And so people form personalities as weak, strong, loud, funny – whatever. These feelings
arise, get labelled (that's fine) but then get ascribed to this 'self' thing, and we think they define us.
We defend these feelings or attack these feelings – it's like defending waves in the sea.
“So now the current experience is not being experienced and processed in reality, as it
happened. Instead it is being processed based on previous experiences that the mind stored
with a self attached thus changing how the experience is perceived based on the past and
identification of self.”
Yes, yes, true. FOCUS, Johnny – don't let go of the core of this till you have seen it, you can
explore the side streets when you're free.
“This builds and builds and builds with no questions asked. Soon it is taken as fact. Now
every single experience that is processed though the mind first goes though these stored
memories with self attached and is processed based on old self identified experiences.”
Yes, yes, yes, exactly, you've got it. It reinforces the ideas of self in your mind.
“We no long see and experience things as they happen in reality - but experience them
based on past interactions.
Phew, well that's that.”
Push, man, see this: see that there is no you, only thoughts about a self that cannot exist.
Re: "I" need a push

by Ciaran » Tue Nov 09, 2010 12:59 pm
Holy shit, StepVhen, you just grew a howitzer.
Johnny - this is right on point, you must see that. Work with Stephen here; really push yourself to
look at what he's saying as deeply as you can.
Look for the reality of it, for the truth of it in your own life. Don't just work the numbers, look at
real life, your real life, and look at what he just said just there.
You cannot need more than this, no-one can.
Re: "I" need a push
by JohnnyZampano » Tue Nov 09, 2010 4:52 pm
My God.
The key word I was missing was 'imagining.' The mind was never attaching a self to thought, it was
attaching the thought of self to an experience.
The mind believes this attached thought of self to be the truth, and goes from there.
The mind continues to attach the thought of self to new experiences, believing the idea of self it
attached to be truth.
The mind does not even see it is attaching an idea of self to thoughts, but rather it sees the thoughts
as coming from the self. Thoughts cannot come from self, because self is a thought based illusion
created by thought. The idea that the self can create thought is absurd.
There is no self now? Better said as there is no self in the now.
The now is all there is. Past is just thoughts stored by the mind that it can draw upon to base its
reaction to the present moment. If there is no self in the now, there never could have been a self,
ever. All there was, was the illusion of self.
The mind made up an identity based on input, and believed it to be truth. After years of never
questioning, just believing the massive lie and illusion that modern life is built around, has allowed
this imagined self to grow and grow.
By grow I mean the mind has continued to think of the illusion as fact and base all thought around
that.
But it never was. There is no self. Never has been a self. The only "self" that has existed is layers
and layers of thoughts created by the mind.
Of course this changes everything. "I" have never existed. When my body was four and running
around playing, there was no "me", just a smaller form existing.
During high school, all the desires, wants, needs, feelings, everything... they were not mine.
There was an imagined self very attached to all that which created unnecessary feelings, which may
have led to depression. In truth there were desires, wants, needs, feelings, but they were not "mine"
as there was no "me" to have them, all that just happened to this form - and the mind interpreted
them based on it's own creation of the "self"
Everything "I" have worked for, beaten "myself" up over, done in the name of "self advancement"
or the pursuit of happiness has been based on a lie.
All of that was done under the illusion of self, of wanting to make better or change the "self".
But it goes deeper then that, everything, every action and inaction, every thought has been under the
belief of "self".
Everything that is fucked and wrong in the world can be attributed to the illusion of self on a
massive scale.
Racism is a lie based on differences of self.
Everything. All of it. It has all been filtered though the illusion. Everything is bullshit based on
belief in an illusion created by the mind.
In reality it's just forms. A body and a mind working together to exist in the here and now. Minds
think, in fact that all they do, think. They interpret was the body experiences. This form was born
and this form will die.
There has never been a self, ever, in anything. The mind had thoughts of a self, and more thoughts
of self, and more and more until the mind tricked itself into believing there was something called a
self that was separate from the mind.
"I" am not typing this right now. A mind views hands moving over a keyboard though eyes, the
mind is sending signals and tons and tons of fucking shit is going on inside the body to make this
happen right now, but "I" am not typing. Typing is happening, interaction of a computer and a
human body is happening, but that's it. And even that is just attaching labels to what is happening.
There is no self typing, how could there be? It's preposterous to think of a self doing this.
All that we are is a result of what we have thought.
Re: "I" need a push

I'll chalk another one up for StepVhen.
Yeah?
You guys seeing the power of this? Looking deeply into stuff? Not just throwing out insight, but
really looking deep into what someone's saying?
It's very powerful stuff; it's the key to freeing people. Use your clarity; don't just parrot what you've
read. Tailor it, make it clear. And the thing is, the deeper you go with someone, the more other
people reading it are going to get hit by what you're saying.
You only need to free someone once. Now you might think I was pretty harsh here, because Johnny
was making almost all the right noises from very early on after what Loomis said – and maybe
you're right.
But we put this shit beyond doubt. We close it the fuck down. We do not want people swinging in
the breeze, and we do not count our success by how many people agree with us, believe what we
say or think we make a good point.
That's all crap.
Freedom or nothing. That's what this has to be, no belief, no religion, no ideology. Just the truth,
just the truth, just the truth.
Awesome work Johnny. Now help other people see it.
I'm so fucking proud of you both.
Re: "I" need a push

by JohnnyZampano » Tue Nov 09, 2010 5:43 pm
Total group effort. Never would have happened without this Arena and your own story in The
Thunder and the Sunshine. Last night I thought I got it, but that was only a glimpse. The key word
today was imagine, reading that kind of pushed me over the final edge to see the larger picture. It's
all in the mind, all of it.
This is just the beginning, so much farther to go. I've listened to pretty much everything by Tolle
before, but never really really listened to it. Now it will make much much more sense.
Any suggestions on other material or exercises to make it go deeper?
And thanks :)
Re: "I" need a push

No problem.
Look, mate, you've gone beyond a point where books about this shit are relevant. You will find that
with freedom from self comes incredible clarity of vision. Use it.
Look deeply at all the built up crap that's swimming around your head.
Deeper than that lies all the assumptions that it sits on, that's where all the really fuck up shit lies.
Not the big open beliefs. The unquestioned assumptions.
Question them.
Look - the structure of belief doesn't go away by magic after you get free. And even the most
archaic or superstitious beliefs may have some truth in them. Don't discard beliefs – find the truth
of them.
Some people see this truth and then reject everything, reject all their initial beliefs as wrong.
I think that's a pretty shallow response. Sure, many assumptions and beliefs that people have can
pretty simplistic. Sometimes they're just plain wrong. But usually there's this mechanism of crap
that holds them up, and at the centre of that mechanism is always, always, always the assumption of
self.
Look deeper. Look into things. And have faith – if your beliefs point to something real, gee
willikers, Batman, you might just be able to find the truth behind them, and stare it in the eye now.
It's a rush.
And have faith in your freedom too. If you can ever lose it, it's not the real deal, so feel free to push
the living shit out of it, see what you're capable of now. That's why I did – and look, everyone's
liberated now.
Well, everyone on this Arena.
Well most people.
You know what I'm saying.
But yeah – when I was trying to get free of all this destructive crap, I thought that if you could just
crack the central lie, all the other lies would collapse. But it's not like pulling the bottom piece of
pile of Jenga out. Stuff doesn't just fall down.
The structure of beliefs doesn't collapse when the self is removed, because as you know now – there
is no self to remove.
Nothing is taken, nothing is destroyed, and nothing gets pulled out of the block of wooden Jenga
bricks.
There never was a you, and liberation (enlightenment is a shit word for what this is) is just seeing
the fact that in real life, that is actually true.
Nothing is removed. And on the one hand, that's great, because you can say that all the stuff that's
good stays – like love and hope, adventure, victory, success and long walks in the summer sun.
But. It also means that things like cowardice remain. Complacency. Laziness. Just not giving a
shit. They remain too. You are free, and that means you're free to ignore your world in its agony,
despair and confusion.
And many do. Many do.
This Arena has, in the four months it has been up and running, freed something like 74 people.
Of those 74, maybe somewhere between 10 and 15 have seriously acted to do something with this.
That's a pretty low percentage. At the same time – fine. We'll work with whatever we have to work
with. This shit is just too important.
And besides – what that does mean is that there are now 10-15 liberated people, free from the
chains that trap every human from birth, dedicated to bringing the truth to the world by whatever
means necessary.
And that number? 10-15? That will rise. Because there are good people out there. People who act
when acting is required, people who confront lies when lies are hurting people, people who just act
when there is an urgent need that they can fill. That's so important. So crucially important.
As for your situation right now as a newly freed person? It's like you're wrapped around with
chains, thousands of them. They've been building up your whole life; you're like Jacob fucking
Marley. Everyone is. They are the chains put there by the lie of self.
Some are big, some are small – and they are held onto you by this dizzying web of locks.
The fact that there is no you is the master key that unlocks them all. And even when unlocked
you've still got to stretch out and shake them off.
So - turn your vision on all your assumptions. Pick the big ones first, whatever they are, and just
look. Look deeply at them as you looked deeply at this. You will see the truth of them, and every
deep truth you see will expand your freedom.
The absolute, positively best way to do this it to try to get this freedom through to other people.
They challenge you with this or that – and you don't need to be 'clever' anymore to respond with
solid fucking gold. Just look deeply at what they're saying, at the ideas? You take those down and
see what's behind them, and you're really start seeing the deep simplicity of what it means to be a
human.
It's so simple.
Living a life of principle is the best meditation. Pushing yourself to do better and do good, facing
lies and overcoming them, helping people in ways that are serious and sustained. Freeing them
from that core lie on which all other lies rest?
These are all serious challenges, and a person is not diminished by overcoming them.
A man who climbs a mountain does not carry the weight of that mountain with him, but the strength
he gained from the climb.
And the actual liberation from the lie of self of the whole teeming world? That's a pretty big
mountain, people. So get climbing.
Chapter 11:
I'm Done
I'm Done
by Grapefruit » Sun Nov 07, 2010 9:54 pm
Ok, I just wrote a load of shit in another thread. I thought I was done. But na, not at all. Then I read
this
“You're just hitting him with insight; he's got enough of that. When people start getting
glimpses but it's not sticking, what's going on is that they're stuck in trying to "agree it into
being" or "convince themselves that it's true."
The agree thing comes from thinking that there's a 'you' that can click with this. Obviously,
not going to happen. Same with people who try to meditate on 'no you.' No point. You think
that if you hold the state of being free for long enough, it's going to stick.
It's not going to stick – because there's nothing for it to stick to.
They need to see. That's it. Seeing doesn't need a you, and once a thing is seen it can't be
unseen. Get him to see.”
And I got it, I don't exist at all, it's fucking the craziest thing ever. What the fuck. I have no idea
how to say it any other way. Fuck the intellectualization, there is just no me. I just don't see it at all.
Re: I'm Done

by Kevin » Sun Nov 07, 2010 10:01 pm
Cool mate. Sounds good.
Tell me more about it. Why is there no you?
What is called I never existed. This is true in a testable and demonstrable way. This is true in every
way that you can understand it, even if it seems incomprehensible. This is absolutely, irrevocably,
and unequivocally true. I refers to nothing.
Re: I'm Done

by aha » Sun Nov 07, 2010 10:01 pm
“You're just hitting him with insight; he's got enough of that. When people start getting
glimpses but it's not sticking, what's going on is that they're stuck in trying to "agree it into
being" or "convince themselves that it's true."
The agree thing comes from thinking that there's a 'you' that can click with this. Obviously,
not going to happen. Same with people who try to meditate on no you. No point. It's not
going to stick because there's nothing for it to stick to.
They need to see. That's it. Seeing doesn't need a you, and once a thing is seen it can't be
unseen. Get him to see.”
Grapefruit, where did you get this?
Re: I'm Done

@aha: Ciaran.
@Kevin: I don't know how I can describe it there just is no me here. What am I supposed to say?
It's just a huge universal machine thing I'm a part of.
Re: I'm Done

No, scratch that I'm not a part of it; it's just a machine thing.
Re: I'm Done

by laserpig » Sun Nov 07, 2010 10:10 pm
Grapefruit wrote:
“And I got it, I don't exist at all, it's fucking the craziest thing ever. What the fuck. I have no
idea how to say it any other way. Fuck the intellectualization there is just no me. I just don't
see it at all. O.o”
Ya got it son! Ain't it nuts? Makes the whole of your life up to this point seem kinda stupid, doesn't
it?
They say when one reaches liberation, there's nothing left but to have a good laugh.
I'm not sure about laughter. More like, nothing left but to have a good facepalm.
Re: I'm Done

Yeah it was fucking nuts to the core. Funny shit, to be honest I don't care enough to facepalm.
Everything is so light. That was cool as shit, time to enlighten others lol.
Re: I'm Done
Yeah, you can't really get too down about it because the you who fucked up . . . Isn't you.
No one fucked up. Fucking up happened. lol
Re: I'm Done

I remember some fucking horrible crazy shit from before about 10 minutes ago but seriously I don't
even really know what happened in my stupid life previously, other than there being a lot of stupid
whining and looking for some vague indefinable happiness thing.
Re: I'm Done

by Kevin » Sun Nov 07, 2010 10:21 pm
Post up a big rant about it. Say everything that you can say. Chill back for a little bit and gather your
thoughts if you have to. It's very very cool out here.
Re: I'm Done

by russell88 » Sun Nov 07, 2010 10:23 pm
Fuck yeah. Welcome to the world of the living.
Re: I'm Done

Um... I really have no idea how to go on a big rant about it, there just isn't a me, I just don't feel it,
how can I say more? Perhaps in the morning I'll have the words for more than that I'm a bit blown
away at the moment to be honest. I'll post back if I do.
Re: I'm Done

If nothing else, go live life for a day or two and tell us how it's different when free from delusion.
Re: I'm Done
Yeah, I think I'll try some deemsterz tomorrow. I wonder how it will be.
Re: I'm Done

Uh... I dunno if you might wanna keep that shit on the other Arena, bro.
Re: I'm Done

Who knows, mind totally blown? O.o There is no other Arena dude. It doesn't exist, seriously. >_>
Re: I'm Done

by aha » Sun Nov 07, 2010 11:50 pm
Kevin wrote:
“Post up a big rant about it. Say everything that you can say. Chill back for a little bit and
gather your thoughts if you have to. It's very very cool out here.”
Grapefruit, do it! The threshold is pretty low here.
Re: I'm Done

by Mr. Hyde » Mon Nov 08, 2010 3:25 am
Grapefruit wrote:
“Um... I really have no idea how to go on a big rant about it, there just isn't a me, I just
don't feel it, how can I say more? Perhaps in the morning I'll have the words for more than
that I'm a bit blown away at the moment to be honest, I'll post back if I do.”
Explain the difference from the before & the after.
Re: I'm Done

by Ciaran » Mon Nov 08, 2010 9:15 am
CIARAN KUNG FU SO POWERFUL EVEN HIS INSTRUCTIONS ON HOW TO FREE

PEOPLE FREE PEOPLE!!!
HWAAAA!!!!! JUDO CHOP!
Re: I'm Done
Grapefruit wrote:
“Yeah, I think I'll try some deemsterz tomorrow. I wonder how it will be.”
Uh, yeah mate. No fucking talk of hallucinogens on this Arena mate. None whatsoever. Ever.
Under any circumstances.
Don't be posting that shit again, and if I were you I would steer as far clear of using hallucinogens
of any kind in the context of real philosophy as I would steer clear of putting my cock in a blast
furnace.
Seriously mate. Party down with the cool kids all you want, I'm not telling you how to live – but
mixing real philosophy and hallucinogenic drugs?
The shit you are fucking with will eat you alive.
Don't fuck with it.
Re: I'm Done

Oh, and I noticed that a mod had chalked another liberation up to me... but I just want to ask who it
was and where's the link? I need to be extra careful with this stuff.
We're not just chalking this shit up for a fun competition. We need to show people this is real, to be
able to back it up properly. We say we've freed people. The next obvious question is “Who?”
People are going to want to check this out, to sound this out to see if it's real. We need to make sure
they can do that – it is real. But we need to be absolutely ironclad with these liberations. It's not a
perfect system, but I want it as near as we can possibly make it, dammit.
If someone comes looking at this and says “where's your evidence,” we don't want to be going “we
have transcended the need for evidence” like a bunch of fucking hippies. We want to say “Here.
Here it is. It's here.” And show them. That's fair, it's a fair question and it deserves a solid answer.
Let's make sure we can give one.
Re: I'm Done

by Grapefruit » Mon Nov 08, 2010 2:37 pm
Kinda scared now but nevermind it's not for here, cool no problem. I am actually interested in
hearing more on why psychedelics and real philosophy don't mix but I understand if you just want
to leave it.
Anyway, here's my rant. I'm not gonna go too deep into any philosophy because it's confusing to
me, I'm just gonna describe the experience.
Ok, so at the first step I half understood what was going on and was trying to intellectualize it. This
brought me somewhere but it seemed as if the suffering had intensified, I thought I'd cracked it and
it was a bit of a joke.
Then the I read the post I quoted up there at the top of this thread. Suddenly I actually saw it,
metaphorically I could describe it as if my soul went through the mouse hole and suddenly it was
intuitively clear that there was no me, just everything.
I was exuberant and could feel peace, joy and love emanating from a place I hadn't been able to
access before.
For the first time everything had this presence, like I could feel it all there. This has deepened a lot
today.
Desires and addiction have been continuing but it's like they are running out of steam. There's
nothing for them to go on, they're slowly fading away.
Things are brighter and everything is still. It's pretty wicked and there's a change in my voice, it's
seems to catch a lot less and flow better.
If I want something done it's more like I put a subtle pressure on it than throw all this force and
attachment at it. Relationships that were tense don't seem it anymore. Everything is done in
lightness and this extends to relationships. Even if there is an argument I don't cling to the arguing.
Also nobody seems to exist and there extra clarity on how people cling tightly to the mask. That's
about everything.
Re: I'm Done

by Ciaran » Mon Nov 08, 2010 3:58 pm
Brilliant piece. And I'm glad to hear you're pulling back on the philosophy/DMT cocktail.
I'm putting my book together; it will be out as soon as I can finish it. It goes into a lot of detail on
the drugs thing, so if you hang fire till then you'll get the full scoop.
Basically, you are massively amplifying your mind, then poking around inside your massively
amplified mind with your massively amplified mind.
It's fucking dangerous. If you're just tripping out? Ok, whatever – like I said, I'm not telling you
how to live. But to do any hallucinogens and to focus that amplification inward?
Mate, look. There's still a lot of crap in your head, in mine, in everyone's.
Poking it with the massive power of a hallucinogen-addled mind while it's so amplified can cause a
feedback loop. Basically, the crap amplifies itself, and you get stuck in a loop. It's not unlike what
happens when you hold a mic next to an amp – you know that feedback howl?
Imagine that, only except it's not just sound. It's the noise, intensity, meaning, complexity and force
of your thoughts amplified over and over.
Oh – and you know how a mic and an amp will level out? That noise? It's still loud enough to hurt,
but it eventually levels out?
This doesn't. There's no physical component, so it just keeps increasing in intensity and force,
faster and faster, way beyond your ability to process it.
That, my chum, is what they call a “psychotic episode” and I didn't learn what I know about it from
medical dramas on the TV.
I made a very bad mistake once; I tried using hallucinogens to boost my philosophical insight. It
worked altogether too well. And it took me a year to claw my way back to sanity. So don't do it.
As for the piece you just wrote up? Awesome stuff.
Now basically, just dive right in and start trying to get it through to others. See if you can beat
Kakistos's 3 day liberation to liberator record.
Either way, you'll soon get a feel for the problem, and it is a monumental rush when you free
someone. So get to work, I'll help however I can. Great stuff.
Re: I'm Done

by Grapefruit » Mon Nov 08, 2010 5:52 pm
Cool, I will hold off for a good while at least, interesting, can't wait to read the book. I kind had an
intuitive feeling when I popped that psyches might get a bit messy because now I'm guessing they
will actually have deep impact.
Gonna try popping someone tonight but I have a feeling he's going to be a tough nut to crack.
Also, if no drugs, what do you think about extended meditation, like vipassana sn goenka style,
which is supervised and sober shamanic technique for entity contact? I read a great book on a cross
between shamanism and chaos magic by Jan Fries and I'd like to give some of the stuff in there a
go. No rush for anything, though, still plenty of stuff to go on in normalcy.
Re: I'm Done

by fernandez » Mon Nov 08, 2010 9:44 pm
Grapefruit wrote:
“Also, if no drugs, what do you think about extended meditation, like vipassana sn goenka
style, which is supervised and sober shamanic technique for entity contact? I read a great
book on a cross between shamanism and chaos magic by Jan fries and I'd like to give some
of the stuff in there a go. No rush for anything though; still plenty of stuff to go on in
normalcy.”
Beware of the bullshit. It's everywhere.
Re: I'm Done

by laserpig » Tue Nov 09, 2010 12:49 am
"Entity contact" is a real possibility of experience, especially in altered states brought about by
shamanic technique, but I think it would be a regression from the recognition of no-self. Totally
counterproductive.
Before awakening, you believed you were an entity.

There was a voice, it referred to things, and the words were accepted uncritically.
Now you know that, truthfully, there were only words emerging in consciousness, with no identity
at all to "have" them. Identity is merely something to which the words refer. (And don't let the fact
of reference confuse you. I can refer to the blue pit-bull which is chewing on your dick right now.
Doesn't make him real.)
Shamanic "entity contact" is merely another form of the same trick. Except instead of uncritically
accepting words which say "I am me," you're accepting words which say "I am Grk'thalnator,
earthquake god of Kansas, and I have a message for you from backwards in time."
Bullshit. Just words in a human head.
Dipshit humans, applying identity to everything in sight.
That's why I say entity contact would be counterproductive. It is a relapse into identification-
thought. And if the mind is weak enough to get caught identifying alien magician entities, it's sure
as fuck weak enough to get caught identifying a personal self.
Re: I'm Done

by Ciaran » Tue Nov 09, 2010 1:04 am
Okaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay.
It seems you need to lay off the drugs for other reasons.
Where to even begin?
Ah, Jesus. Ok, here's what I got.
I know you might think that I, being a person who is 'liberated' (still fucking hate that word) and all,
I might be open to thinking about such things as Shamanism, entity contact, conspiracy theories and
little green men.
And actually, yes. Yes, technically speaking, I am. However. There is a very specific way in which
I’m open to it, and it’s this.
Carl Sagan, the astronomer, speaking about the possibility of aliens having visited Earth said
something interesting; he said that “extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.”
I actually think that’s too simplistic, and pretty lazy. It’s the kind of laziness that infects ‘intelligent’
Western culture, which is to sit back, arms folded, saying “well, convince me, then” while spitting
out cynical responses and calling that honesty.
How I see it is this – extraordinary claims require extraordinary investigation.
That places the responsibility on the person who hears the claims, and that’s as it should be. People
should care about the truth of things, and a big claim to make is a big claim to ignore.
With that said, we do not investigate things by accepting wild possibilities as true, nor do we accept
them by leaving these possibilities untouched.
When I first realised that these eastern mystics (and western mystics for that matter) actually had
something, something real, something buried beneath millennia of reverence and idolatry, but yes -
something real - I got super-cynical. I had to.
So much reverence, so much crap had been built up around it that. My cynicism was my shield, and
that’s what you need if you’re going to start looking at anything 'wacky'.
Any idiot can swim in the ocean of possibility, and a real idiot looks at the possibilities he sees and
says “wow, look at me, I see all these possibilities.” Or worse still – "I believe all these fantastic
things, so I must be fantastic."
This is vanity and cowardice, pure and simple. The person who revels in possibilities is to
cowardly to really put them to the test, and the person who revels in belief doesn’t even feel that is
necessary for them to sign on the dotted line.
This is a ridiculous way to approach life.
Only a serious person, a serious philosopher, a serious detective, a serious scientist – a really honest
person – only they test. They test hard, and well. And if they find something they can’t test, they
walk away from it and find something they can.
There is crazy shit enough in the world without us inventing more. And if your beliefs are real, not
testing them as hard and as brutally as it is possible to do is mind-meltingly stupid.
In fact, the only reason – the ONLY reason – a person would not test their beliefs, is if they did not
really believe them.
How do you test them? However you can. But what you do not do is fill your head with drugs and
dive into the whirling, flowery world of hallucinogenic delusion.
That is fucking stupid. Sherlock Holmes may have used morphine and cocaine, but I doubt he
would have brought LSD into A Study In Scarlet. How the fuck would that look in a game of Clue?
It was Colonel Mustard, in the Yellow Submarine with the fundamental substance of reality.
No. Not an answer. Just a joke.
It is a joke that people do this. A fucking joke. It’s not some ‘cool rebellion’ against the status quo
– it’s the kind of vague, bullshit thinking and lack of personal seriousness that makes the status quo
so strong, and so shit.
Because people who should be seriously looking at the rotting edifice of our civilisation, with it’s
many poisons and horrors, it’s many easy answers and total lack of honesty are too busy playing
with recreational drugs to have any kind of value as people.
How I cracked the deep core of what we've come to call liberation was not by leaping in to every
possibility and ‘believing’ my way to it. That’s just another way of describing the actions of a liar,
and liars never find anything real.
No.
What I did was test. I hear there’s a path to it through meditation? Tested. No. There isn’t. Pain?
Tested. No. Not viable. Drugs? Yes – I tested this. Not so much on liberation, but once, seven
years ago with philosophy as such.
No. Horrific damage and unbelievable danger are down that path.
Then I just tested fucking honesty. No tricks, no tactics – just being honest, and working the lock.
It took me a while, yes – and it wasn’t always fun. But – it was solid; it was always a solid path.
We have to stop looking for a way to cheat our way to the end of this. Let’s just do it the right way,
the old-fashioned way. Honestly. Putting one foot in front of the other.
That’s what I did, and you tell me, newly liberated person, if that’s a fucking goal scored right
fucking there.
Think of the numbers. We have been running this for a few months. We have SCORES of liberated
people, over 70, and 18 now who are not only liberated, but who have actually, directly freed others.
17 of those people aren’t me. I just cracked the philosophical core. 17 people, in these few short
months, have picked up that ball and run with it, and those who have indulged themselves in drugs,
or meditation or considering the fucking lily have vanished off the face of the earth.
They’re not dead; they’re probably having a ball. But they’re not fucking helping anyone.
And do you know what? I don’t get that. I just don’t.
I mean, however insecure you are, however afraid you are, however redundant life has made you
feel, when you see that in real life there is no you, when you feel the freedom of that, when it hits
you like a fucking freight train of liberation? How can people just fuck off and have fun with that
while the world burns?
What level of weakness does that say about a person? It’s like waking up in a burning crèche and
toasting marshmallows on the dying kids. It’s fucked, man, it’s just fucked. And so many people
do it, it just fucking sickens me.
Now look. If you want to fucking investigate shit like this, fine – but fucking investigate it, don’t
just cunt around in the waves of wonderful ideas that your mind throws up when you pump it full of
mushrooms. That’s fucking cowardice.
And frankly, unless these ‘shamanistic entities’ are going to ride to the rescue on a bunch of fucking
unicorns, I don’t think we need their ‘help’.
We need your help, dude. Yours. We need you to give a shit, to just fucking leash your shit.
I mean seriously. This new ability humanity now has to permanently free people from deep
suffering? That’s a fucking game changer. That means you fucking drop your shit, and start freeing
people.
We are no longer looking at ‘starting a new trend of thought’ or ‘moving the world toward
freedom’.
At the rate we are now able to actually transmit real, permanent freedom from person to person, we
can look at having this whole world free, every fucking person, within five years, and that is in no
sense wild or wacky.
If anything, that is conservative.
Over SEVENTY people liberated (shit word for it, but they are) within a few short months.
Hmmm. That to me says PAY ATTENTION. THE RULES HAVE CHANGED. THERE IS A
NEW OPPORTUNITY NOW.
It says THIS SHIT IS REAL. FUCKING REAL.
It says DROP THE FUCKING NICETIES, AND GET TO WORK.
It says PICK UP WHATEVER FUCKING SHIT YOU WANT TO DO NOW IN FIVE YEARS
TIME AND DO IT IN A FREE WORLD.
That’s what it fucking says to me, and I think that’s what it says to everyone. I just think some
people are so fucking full of weakness and shit that they’re not fucking listening.
Don’t be one of them.
And if you’re reading this shit, and you’re not free? Fine. I know this is an extraordinary claim.
So fucking investigate. Don’t just fucking sit there like a slug, like a coward who crosses his arms
and calls it honesty. It’s not honest. Honesty is getting real, serious about the truth.
Get real, get serious. Don’t fucking pussy out on this, and don’t get all prissy because I’m not
writing in flowery prose. Fuck the prose. What’s the fucking truth?
Let that alone be the cry of your fucking heart. And find it. Fast. And then help us. Help us
fucking free this planet. And don’t dismiss that because it’s a big claim. Mount a big investigation,
if you claim to give a shit about the truth. Or just get the fuck out of our way. One or the other.
Oh, and Grapefruit? One other thing. You say:
Grapefruit wrote:
“Gonna try popping someone tonight but I have a feeling he's going to be a tough nut to crack.”
Hit him so fucking hard with this his heart breaks.
And GET ON THE INTERNET. Hit your Facebook friends list, hit it HARD. I hit mine hard in
the first month I was free, I freed seven people. Permanently. In one month. My first, ever.
Beat my score.
Chapter 12:
What IS Liberation?
What IS Liberation?
I sometimes get quite annoyed when people ask me this. Many people relate what I do to
enlightenment, and I hate the word enlightenment it's a bullshit word. It's like a word and a fucking
excuse for cowards, all rolled into one. "I'm enlightened, so I don't need to give a shit anymore."
Buddha failed. That's the truth. He succeeded in finding something real after spending years just
digging through the mind to find what it was about human thought processes that was intrinsically
destructive.
He succeeded in that. His failure was what he did with it. Which was to start a lovely movement of
meditation and considering the lily. At the time, India was racked with war. Great warlords and
princes vied for power and control of the people.
What did he do?
He sat on a scented cushion surrounded by adoring admirers while India burned. And it's been
burning ever since. He is a traitor to his people, and should be seen as such for all his insight.
Two and a half thousand long years of hell since have passed since he decided his insight was too
clever and too beautiful for the common man.
Since he delved in the beauty of his ideas, and let the ugliness of the world run rampant.
There are few historical figures for whom I have greater contempt than Buddha.
And everyone's still fucking trapped. They're trapped in feedback.
Feedback is exactly the right word. An idea pops in, and then the question rises - what does mean
about me? And then more ideas come, and more self-definition, as our brains desperately attempt to
throw contours around a thing that simply isn't there.
This is the human condition, this is what why we suffer unnecessarily. Just think how much of your
thoughts every day howl around the idea of your 'self'. I have to be good, I hate being good, I want
to be happy, does this mean I'm a bad person, he shouldn't have said that to me, but what does it
mean about me that I would accept him saying it.... and on and on and on.
The self doesn't exist. There is nothing there. But because we assume some outside cause for
reality itself, we assume there is – and because it's THE fundamental cause, it's so important to us.
How many relationships have you lost because you were the puppet of this fiction? How many
friendships have you soured because of this? How many opportunities have you squandered
because you were so locked in this prison of worry and want?
Feed me, heal me, save me, fix me. Always, on and on, this gaping chasm in all of us, it just howls
open and devours all.
Of course it does. It's not a monster – it's just a hole. A gaping hole where nothing is, this self,
we're feeding and it's never full.
It's never full because it isn't there.
When you see the truth of this – and all you have to do is look, just once, just see the truth – you
will never be trapped by this again.
The full range of life stays, nothing is taken. But you are no longer bound to this millstone, this lie.
It was always a lie, right from the start, there was never any truth to it. There was never a you.
And look around the world. Look.
You know, you must know how desperate the world's situation is. How fucking hopeless people
feel, how lost, how alone. And they are hopeless, they are lost, and they are alone, because as long
as they still labour to feed this lie, they will never be sated, and will always howl with a terrible
hunger.
Can you think of a single war which was not fought to feed the self?
Can you think of a single murder which did not happen because someone felt their 'self' was
threatened?
Can you? Even one?
This is the core process of human negativity. This. This one thing.
It took me 15 years of punching through layers and layers of shit to get to it, and this is it. This is
what it is. It is self, the lie of self, the idea of self, the assumption of self. There is no self. That's
it, that's all it is.
For 3,000 long years the Eastern traditions have sat on this insight, worshipping it.
I don't think it should be worshipped. I think it should be spread.
And not 'ideas about it.' No. The actual thing, this actual thing, in real life, this seeing, the seeing
of this truth.
Once you see something, you can't unsee it. Even if you forget it, get angry, wander off, whatever.
You can never unsee what you have seen. That's just how the brain works; if it recognises a pattern,
it does not unrecognise it.
That is the permanent shift, just the recognition of this reality: there is no you.
That is liberation. That. That alone.
And it's not magic, and it's not rocket science. It's just the truth. Don't trust me. Don't trust
ANYONE. Just FIND OUT FOR YOURSELF. LOOK.
That's liberation.
Now some people have said: Where does this situation come from? What is the origin of this
fiction? If there's no-one, who wrote it? Who's the author?
Ha. Good question. Here's my two cents –regardless of whether or not you think this holds water,
there is still no you.
That is visible. You don't need to agree, or even understand what I'm about to say (it's not that hard,
really) to get it.
Where it comes from is simple. As humans we have the faculty of breaking up what we perceive
into chunks, and assigning relationships between those chunks. Relationships of cause and effect.
In fact, this is so fundamental to the way we interact with the world, that we don't even realise it's
happening. We just experience a world of this and that, of this thing causing that thing.
This is a good thing. It's brilliant, in fact. It allows us to interact with the world in a way no other
animal can. At the same time, we can't turn it off. It just kicks in.
You might say to me - but causality (cause and effect) is real.
And I would say to you, no, no it's not.
Take this example. If you drop a glass and it breaks on the floor, you might think that's a pretty cut
and dry example of cause and effect.
But where do you draw the line around the cause?
You dropped the glass? Ok.
What about the texture of the glass. If it was frosted, you'd have had more grip, it wouldn't have
fallen. So the smoothness of the glass? Well, let's just stick that into the cause bag.
What about the conversation you were having? If someone hadn't cracked a joke, you wouldn't have
laughed, you arm wouldn't have moved, and you wouldn't have lost your grip.
Ok. One more for the cause bag.
What about gravity? If the planet wasn't as big, gravity wouldn't be so strong, and it wouldn't have
pulled the glass out of your hand so fast, and you would have corrected the slip and gone on with
the party.
Ok, so . . . Gravity.
What about your laziness as a child when your Dad tried to get you to learn Kung Fu, and you
couldn't be bothered? If you weren't so lazy back then you'd have spent 10 years boosting your
reflexes, and you would have caught it.
What about tennis? If you hadn't skived off all those tennis lessons in school you'd have a much
better grip strength. But you did skive. So that's a cause.
What about the sperm that fertilised the egg at your conception? If it was a sperm that had DNA
coding for better reaction times or stronger hand muscles, you would not have dropped that glass.
So sperm goes in the bag too. Yuck.
What about all your ancestors since you came down from the trees? Every single act of competition
and selection, every time one of them survived - if they'd have died or failed to reproduce, you
would not be there, and the glass would not have fallen.
What about before the ancestors came down from the trees? What about that? What about the
genesis of life itself, simple replications in the primordial ooze?
And that's just cause.
How about effect?
The effect is that the glass shatters. Then what? The carpet is stained? Yup. Red wine. Bad news.
Then what? Someone has to clean it up with white wine or salt, or Vanish Oxy-Action Go, or
whatever? Yup.
So they reach down and pick up the shards. They put the shards in the bin. The shards stay in there,
but cut a small hole in the bottom of the bin liner. Is this still the effect of you dropping that glass?
Yes. Unless you have a magic line to draw in reality and say, this far and no further. And there is no
magic line.
The host is annoyed at you; other people crack jokes about your poor coordination. Still effect? Yes.
What about the gravity of the planet?
All things that have mass have gravity, and the shards of that glass emit an extremely weak, but still
real, gravitational pull. Really, they do. You can look it up.
But they aren't where they would have been if you hadn't broken the glass. They're in the bin,
cutting a hole through the bottom of it, and when you take it to the bin, all sorts of crap will leak all
over the floor. And maybe it will puncture the glove of the bin man, who takes the rubbish away.
Maybe he'll get sick and have to go to the hospital for injections. And maybe he'll meet a nurse
there who he'll fall in love with. They'll get married and have children, one of whom will be a
politician who will rise to the cabinet and be the deciding vote on whether the country goes to war.
Is that an effect of you dropping the glass?
Unless you have a magic dividing line, the answer is yes.
It isn't that cause and effect are 'wrong' as such. It's that to look at the world in causal terms is a
stunning oversimplification of the reality in which we live.
That's fine, if you're just clearing up glass. And who knows? The binman's kid might vote no - you
could have just saved the world.
But.
I hope you can see that cause and effect, in terms of the simple "this does that" approach to reality is
a tool with a use. If you are looking at life as if it were real, you are narrowing your view of things
to a stunning degree.
Use it; don't be used by it.
Anyway, the whole reason I bring this shit up is this: cause and effect: this is the lens through which
we view the world.
Actually, lens is a good word - it's a magnifying lens for thought. We can focus ourselves on tiny
sections of reality, and work out 'their' properties as if they were, in reality, totally separate from all
the rest of what exists.
Great. Brilliant. Now we have iPhones. Let the world rejoice.
BUT.
Remember - we can't turn this off, because we're hardly even aware that we're doing it: this slicing
the world into bite-sized chunks.
And we are also aware of life itself, of the actual flow of existence. Maybe if we don't think that
deep, we're still aware of things that are meaningful, things that matter. Love, hope, laughter,
freedom, success, family, friendship. Xbox.
So say you love your family; your family is important. How do you process that when you look at
the world through a causal lens?
You assume a cause. You assume a cause for your family being important. They are important "to"
something. To "you."
But actually, because we are locked in this causal matrix, we assume that meaning needs a cause.
That it needs something standing outside itself making it meaningful.
There's nothing there.
Your family is just intrinsically important. Your friendships are just intrinsically important.
Laughter, freedom, success - these things are just intrinsically important.
There is no cause for reality itself. Your family is real, and, as such, they are part of reality. Nothing
stands outside reality, giving it meaning. Meaning is part of reality as such.
Can you see?
That to see through the lie of self, to see that all these assumptions about something that
'experiences life' - seeing through that, seeing through that incorrect assumption, seeing that in truth
there is nothing there, no self at all, in any way - seeing that?
Please pay attention to what I am about to say, it is so important. It is one of the most important
things I will ever say.
Seeing that there is no you does not reduce meaning.
It does not corrode meaning.
It does not make meaning more distant.
It does not change meaning.
It does not destroy meaning.
There is no you. There never was. All the meaning that you have experienced since birth, all the
wild extremes of importance and value that your life has contained?
There was never a you. All of them existed within themselves. All of them. Reality itself needs no
cause. And reality as such cannot affect anything, because there is nothing outside reality for it to
affect.
There is no you. There is just life, and within that, meaning, love, hope, truth - everything.
Everything that is real remains. So all you motherfuckers need to stop fucking whining about
losing this or that when we ask you to look at something. Anything that goes away when you look
at it was never there in the first place.
There's no you. Look. Ah, fuck it. If you haven't at least had a peek by now, frankly, you're a lost
cause.
But you see, showing this to people, and seeing people's reactions to the truth of this has been a hell
of an eye opener for me.
Some people have reacted well, reacted as I assumed everyone would to the reality of immediate
and permanent freedom.
Some have reacted like Kakistos, StepVhen, Kevin, Unison, and many others. They have said –
this world need to fucking see this. Right now. No more waiting, no more being wise.
Just bring the truth. Free the world. It is not fantasy; it is not fiction, nor a wild goose chase, or a
pipe dream.
We have the information. With the internet, we have the communications network. The internet is
an incredible vector for communicating this. Let's use it; let's hit it hard, so hard. Let's hit it so hard
we break the internet - or the global lie. One or the other would probably be a step forward for
mankind.
When I saw the thing that triggered freedom, I knew what I was looking at. I didn't have any veils
of mysticism built up around me that I needed to overcome. It was the thing I'd been looking for for
15 years.
It was freedom: freedom from self-destruction. From the Faustian nature of the life every one of us
lives. We keep our heads down and do nothing, live worthless lives and die unsung, or we reach for
the stars and get consumed by our ambition.
That is no way to live. Mankind was never meant to live like this.
So when I saw it, it was immediately obvious what I needed to do. Spread the freedom. Not out of
charity, but just a basic, simple, ground-level give-a-shit about humanity. I am not a saint. I have
done fucked up things, and have been a fucked up person. In many ways. I have been a piece of
shit over and over, and more than this, and worse than this. But when I was a kid, I saw something.
Something real.
What I saw was this: that there wasn't a billion things killing our people, but only one.
That there are processes that repeat over and over in the worst moments of humanity, on every
possible scale. Processes like rationalisation, spinning moral stories that justify the shitty things we
do. Processes like self-delusion, where we greedily gulp down convenient lies that flatter us.
What is this fucking 'us' we want to flatter? What?
You see, that was something close to the question I asked, and I could never let it go. Not until I
found it.
It is the lie. The lie. The lie. The single lie at the heart of all lies. The one foundational lie on
which all lies rest. The idea that there is a 'you' experiencing life. There isn't. There never was.
There's just life. Just life.
But we don't see that. We're too busy feeding this fiction, and that way of thinking sets humanity
against itself, renders us volatile and toxic, pulls us into despair and madness. You know, that thing
they refer to as "human nature."
It doesn't seem very natural to me.
Enlightenment is the worst possible word to use to describe this. Perhaps that's why this kind of
freedom is so rare.
The word enlightenment makes you think of serene wisdom and Zen peace.
Actually, it's not like that at all.
The fundamental problem of the trapped state is that your life is limited. You know yourself well
enough by now to know that you can love - but you have to watch yourself.
If you want something too much, you get consumed by that wanting, and it takes you over and
destroys you. And then you lose the thing you wanted anyway. It's a devil's deal.
If you care too much about something, you get consumed by that caring, and it takes you over and
destroys you. And then you lose the thing you cared about anyway. That's a devil's deal too.
If you love someone too much you get consumed by that loving, and it takes you over and destroys
you. And then you lose the person you loved anyway. That's the fucking devil right there, laughing
all the way to the bank.
Or how about anger? What about when we encounter something horrific, something terrible,
something that needs to be confronted?
Anger is like the crack cocaine of the self, it is the self's weapon of choice. It loves anger; anger is
what it likes the most. It gets angry, gets inflamed, and becomes furious and intense and then...
And then... Who the fuck are you anymore?
And everyone knows it. I think that's maybe why we all tolerate such horror in the world we live
in, because we know that being trapped by anger will turn us into monstrosities at least the equal of
the horrors we fight.
And often, yes. Yes, this does happen.
And so we just back off. And the rot spreads.
The rot has spread very far.
This is the Faustian world. Everything is a devil's deal, everything has that single fucking signature
on it that says all your happiness and all your hope are on loan from a terrible lender, and one day
he'll call that loan in, and on that day, you'd better find a mountain to hide under.
Self-confidence is the worst. If you want to live your life with any degree of success you have to
balance yourself on a knife's edge. Enough juice in your engine to keep you going, but not too much
. . . Never too much.
Once you fall into arrogance, vanity? The monstrousness that you bring? Well. We've all seen it.
It's easier to see in other people.
These are the chains in which humanity lives.
Live - but only a little. Do not live too much. Do not step beyond this boundary or that, for if you
do, BAM, you become a monster, or a freak, or a caricature of what you should have been.
Live, but quietly. Live in a narrow world. Step off the edge of this Faustian tightrope and you will
fall far, perhaps take others with you, perhaps not. But you're going down – and in the end, so are
they.
It is the life we live. It is our civilisation, the way of our species; it always has been from time
immemorial. We conform or we are destroyed. This tyranny does not come from political offices
or religious edict.
It emanates from inside you, from that single lie that makes a nightmare of your life.
A better man than me, (and the only man I know of who has ever seen this with a fullness that
makes all my insight look shallow and weak) once said “I want you to have life in its abundance.”
I am not a fucking Christian, but I know a man of insight when I read his shit. You're an atheist?
Fine. Don't give a fuck. Agnostic? Fine. Don't give a fuck. Christian? Fine. Don't give a fuck.
Buddhist? Sikh? Muslim? Fine. Wouldn't know where to begin to give a fuck with a give-a-fuck
satnav.
I just want to know two things.
Are you an honest fucking person?
Do you give a shit about other people?
Because if you're an honest person, you can see this. And if you give a shit, you'll show other
people. And that's what needs to happen next.
And if you think this process is limited to individual people, think again.
You can see it extremely clearly on a national level - national identities, especially of successful
nations - are often very much like this. Blaring, larger-than-life, polished and superficial caricatures
of what a nation is all about.
Many people have been surprised that they didn't get a 'cosmic download' when they became free.
It's actually a really simple, and quite tragic, dynamic which has given us the impression of freedom
that we have - that freedom from suffering is a peaceful state of pure bliss.
The thing to understand is that when you are free, when you are 'liberated,' everything works.
Everything you were trying to do before? It works.
But what were you trying to do before?
Think about it.
What are we all trying to do?
Are trying, and constantly failing to walk a tightrope of peace in a universe of chaos.
When you are free, you can walk that tightrope. You can dance along it; you can jump up and down.
You can develop your stability itself to a level that is absolute.
You can cultivate peace to a stunning degree.
But of course – you no longer need to. The only reason that deep peace was ever important was
that we were so volatile.
So if a person, freed from that volatility, develops internal peace and internal peace alone, they are
just continuing that terrified reaction to the state of being trapped by self.
They are no longer trapped by self, but they still live like they are.
It's like people are so beaten down by life that even when the enemy is removed all they do with all
their freedom is build that fortress high and wide.
The only reason that peace was even necessary in the first place was because when you're not
liberated, life is a tightrope.
We all live a narrow life, constantly watching ourselves, constantly ensuring that we never slip - and
constantly failing because we were never born to be so limited.
When you are free, those processes of corruption that pull you into this or that extreme, that
consume you and tear you apart, that make you a poisonous force to yourself and everyone you
know?
They don't exist anymore. They depended always on that lie. The lie of self. It is a lie. There is no
you.
Once you see through it, there is a better world than the narrow path of that tightrope.
It is the fullness of life. Life in its abundance. You're not getting sucked this way or that, so you
can live to the hilt. You can experience to the hilt. You can love to the hilt, be angry to the hilt, be
kind to the hilt, and be free to the hilt.
And you'll never descend into that chaos again. You are completely free.
This to me is so massively better than peaceful bliss that I cannot begin to describe how grateful I
am that I do not need to sit on a mountaintop.
I can laugh with my friends, and keep my friendships alive (for a change). I can respond with fury
toward cruelty and lies, but never get lost in that fury. Love, but never get obsessed. Hope, but
never lose my grounding. Bravery, but never fall to recklessness. Confidence, but never again get
eaten alive by arrogance.
It all works now. There's no Faustian line I have to be wary not to cross.
That's freedom.
That's better than peace.
That's living a free human life. No more having to leash my happiness in case I corrupt it, no more
having to leash my anger in case it consumes me and everyone around me. And while, yes, anger is
destructive still - it is a focused kind of destruction that is quick to forgive.
And there are things in the world that need to be destroyed.
The problem was that before, when we were not free, we were not free to properly confront the
poisons and diseases that have turned men and women into monsters - because if we did, we too
would fall and be monsters also.
No more.
I mention Jesus here, because this brings us to the tragedy I spoke of earlier. We think of liberation
as being peace because almost all the people, who we read about as being liberated, and who have
left books and poems about liberation are peaceful people.
They did not confront the darkness. They wallowed instead in internal peace, even when they did
not need to. They were afraid, and they cowered in the beauty of internal peace while all around the
world has burned these many millennia.
But because they challenged nothing, they threatened nothing, they lived - and their works survived.
Those who sought to challenge the poison?
Well. There are a lot of dead heretics.
In our madness, humanity has culled the best of its liberated. We have cut them down, burned them,
nailed them up high, gutted them, shot them.
The reason we only see the peaceful side of liberation when we look at history is that humanity has
murdered all those who sought to spread a deeper kind of freedom. A realer kind. A more human
kind.
And we did this because we were too attached to our own fucking bullshit, our own lies of self, our
own little cowardices - that we never stood, as a people, with those who loved us the most, and
risked the most to bring the truth in front of us. We killed them.
Are you going to kill me? Are you going to kill all of the many people who are now liberated, and
good people too? Who have not abandoned their strength of character along with the fiction of
self?
Ha. Not yet. We're not there yet. Gandhi mapped it well.
First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.
So they'll ignore us. For now at least.
If you are reading this, and you are liberated, you are free. I have no hold over you, nothing does
now - save what you lack the courage to confront.
You can, if you choose, live life in any way you like - that's what freedom means. And if you want
peace, fine - but just remember that the only reason you wanted that peace anyway was because all
the best things about life destroyed you over and over.
Love is a great thing. Anger is a great thing. Hope is a great thing. Fear is a great thing.
Obsession, hate, blind faith and paranoia?
You'll never need to worry about those again. They were never meant to be, they were never
reactions against anything that exists. They were only shadows, bloated and terrifying and empty
and dark. Freedom is the light, and in that they cannot dwell.
I hope that you can see now why it is that this world would be a better place if all were free. The
full gamut of life - all the good stuff - that will stay, and deepen, for we can live now to the
extremes of human experience and never be consumed.
And all the darkness? That was never supposed to be here anyway, it's just feedback - feelings
feeding back into this assumption of self, spitting out more feelings, which then feed back
themselves, and so on, and so on, until we become bloated, twisted, arrogant, shrieking caricatures
of what we were meant to be.
None of this needs to happen.
I believe that any level of opportunity to spread this freedom should be grasped with both hands,
hard. I believe that we should work our fingers to the bone and be so grateful, as I am grateful, that
we have this opening here, now, in our lifetimes.
The world needs freedom, it needs it so badly. These toxic monstrosities we all can be consumed by
are feasting upon us. They are feasting.
Let us break that hold, and why the hell not? The only thing that could possibly be a reason is that
this is not real. And I'm not asking you to believe it is. I'm asking you to look, and see, and find the
truth of this for yourself in your own life. And frankly, you should be asking yourself this too.
So ask it. What is the truth?
This can be done. This world can be free. But we won't fucking do it by walking a tightrope, or
wallowing in wonderful feelings while rape, murder and war are endemic in our world.
We need our feet on the ground, and a lot of people with us.
I have such great faith in humanity, I do. I know it doesn't seem like that sometimes, but I know that
we are better than we think we are. Greater than we believe ourselves to be. Less wretched, less
horrid, less savage, less cruel.
That was never us. We have been chained to this lie for too long. Help me - help us - to end it.
As for what the future holds after that?
I honestly don't know. But I think it's going to better than our past. It has to be.
It does not fall to our generation to build a utopia, but to level the structure of lies down to its
foundations so that our children may have a level surface on which to build their own.
It is not madness to say that with the rate that this freedom is being spread, that total global freedom
within five years is in any sense out of our reach. If anything, that's a bit conservative.
I think we can do it in four. I'm going to try to find out.
Are you in?
Re: What IS liberation?

by Dreamer » Tue Nov 16, 2010 7:36 pm
Hell yeah, I'm in.

by Threnody » Tue Nov 16, 2010 7:47 pm
Dreamer wrote:
“Hell yeah, I'm in.”
I'm with her. ;)

by Unison » Tue Nov 16, 2010 9:44 pm
Count me in.

by becky » Wed Nov 17, 2010 12:53 am
Unison wrote:
“Count me in.”
Ditto.

by laserpig » Fri Nov 19, 2010 8:56 pm
Fuck. That hit me right in the chest.
Freedom not exercised is no better than a cage.
More and more I am considering some kind of "hard reboot." Like, I dunno, joining the peace core
for a few months or something. I feel like I need a trial, or a test period, to prove that identity no
longer holds me. Living the same life I have been, with people around me reinforcing the same
identity structures ... it doesn't seem the best way to go.

by Ciaran » Sat Nov 20, 2010 6:48 pm
Probably not a bad idea. Of course, you could always join the Ruthless Horde, and spread freedom
so rapidly that we've got this whole planet free within five years.
Peace corps? Pff. This is where the action is.

by laserpig » Sat Nov 20, 2010 8:14 pm
Tryin' to make the 2012 deadline, eh?

Fuck it. Pedal to the metal.

by russell88 » Sun Nov 21, 2010 5:18 pm
YEAHHH let's do it.

by Kakistos » Mon Nov 22, 2010 4:53 am
laserpig wrote:
“Tryin' to make the 2012 deadline, eh?”
This Arena needs a "like" button.
Afterword
I trust you are amused.
Isn't it amusing to watch all these people and all this drama. Amusing. Diverting. Anyway, back to
the drama. Back to TV.
There's a pretty weird dynamic that life has. You see, you can go through your life telling yourself
you're an honest person deep down. That you're not totally mired in the noise and flashing lights of
a culture that just wants your money and your silence.
You can say to yourself that your mind is your own, you can tell yourself that you, unlike the rest of
them, are the kind of person who does listen, and does care.
And every now and then, you get to decide if this is a lie.
This is one of those times.
Now you can disagree with this, you can hate it, you can fight it, you can tell the whole world that
this is a lie.
But if you ignore it, if you shrug it off as an amusing diversion and slip right back in to the life you
life, you are a coward, and do not care enough about people to even look at something that could
make you useful to your species.
If you are filing this away under 'interesting', you are a dishonest person, who doesn't care about the
truth one way or another. Have the honesty, have the courage, have the basic level of curiosity into
what is actually happening in your life to look and see.
If what we've talked about here isn't true, it's of absolutely no importance whatsoever. If it is real, it
is of critical importance. The one thing this can never be is of medium importance.
These claims are too big to a person to walk away from and not be a charlatan.
Don't be a charlatan.
There is a reason why this book is free to download. It's this.
We all think this is really, really important. We think it's more important than us, or our bank
balances. More important than our lives. Really. We actually think this.
We are not charging for this book, because we don't want to erect a barrier of even a single penny
between people and this information. There is another reason.
This world does not tend to financially compensate honesty. It's a messed-up world, and it's messed
up for a reason – it's locked in a lie, a lie of self.
But we work with what we've got, and what we've got is the blunt fact that those who have chosen
to seriously question the truth that we are sold and presented with every single day by the world in
which we live tend not to be rich.
But they are, generally speaking, the most honest people around. I'm not saying poor people are
more honest than rich – but I am saying that people who reject our modern world as fundamentally
rotten are numerous, courageous, correct and almost always totally sidelined, socially and
financially, by that world.
So we don't want to charge for what we've found.
Now listen very carefully.
If we meet a people who agree with us, or believe what we say, we will slap them in the face.
We don't care if you believe it. Your belief in this is totally irrelevant.
We don't care if you agree. Your agreement is even less important.
We want you to look.
Don't be the kind of pathetic wretch who just nods along because it seems like we know what we're
talking about. It's very easy to be deceived by things, especially by people talking in serious tones
about issues of critical significance.
Do not trust what we say. DO NOT TRUST WHAT WE SAY.
TEST WHAT WE SAY.
TEST IT.
Now, with that said, this book is not an act of charity. We have worked extremely hard, to make all
this possible, and I hope that you will join us – not as a follower, but as an equal. That said, we feel
we can and should earn a living from what we do because what we do needs to be done by
professional people on a very large scale.
We have a mad hope. It has been said to us that this is commercial suicide. To release a book that
can be bought in bookstores, but to also release the text of it in it's complete form as a free
download.
Share this book. Share it. Get it on filesharing websites, torrents. Email it as an attachment. Post a
link to it and a review on your blog. Post a link to it on a forum. If you're not a member of a forum,
join one, and post a link to this. Whatever. Just get it spread.
Many have said this will totally undermine any attempt we make to earn a living from this piece, or
anything we publish (because this is our publishing policy, and we will not change it).
The fact we will not compromise on this free accessibility to our work is the reason why normal
publishing houses wouldn't touch us with a bargepole, and why we have had to set up our own
publishing company to do so. Well, that - and we swear a lot.
But perhaps we are not so naive as the publishers think.
You see, we believe that good people share good ideas. And if there are good people out there - and
there are - they will see this and be stunned at its importance and urgency.
We do not ask anyone to buy a hardcopy of this book as a luxury.
We ask that you buy it as a gift.
And if someone has given this to you as a gift - do not hold onto this book for too long. Do not
have this book languishing on a bookshelf unread and gathering dust.
Give it to someone else.
You have already read it. You know enough. What you need to do now is go for a walk, and ask
some searching questions. Just one actually – is this true? That it.
But. There are many others who have not read this, and this needs to spread. We need many, many
people looking at this issue, and we need it to happen rapidly.
Buy a copy of this as a present for someone. If you have received this book AS a gift from
someone, think of who you could give it to. Who do you know?
Who do you know?
Who do you know who would accept a book as a gift from you?
Who do you know who would read a book if you gave it a serious recommendation?
What holidays or birthdays, or special events are coming up where you can give this to someone as
a present and have it not be weird?
This book is free in its electronic form because this message needs to spread.
Spread this book. Spread it. Just send it. Send it everywhere. Send it with the best
recommendation you can, get this truth spread.
Look at what this is. Look at what has happened here. What is happening right now.
This is real. The Arena is real. These people are real. Come to the Arena, join us. Test us. Push
us. See how real this is.
I f you can't access the link at the bottom of the page because of too much traffic, the blog
connected to it is hosted with google at www.ruthlesstruthdotcom.blogspot.com. Find us there.
There are multiple connected blogs. Just find us.
This is an ongoing project, and we need people desperately to help make this, to make global
freedom, a reality.
Have no illusions. There are not a million problems besetting humanity. There is one. It is lost in
the lie of self.
The lie of self is the spider in the web, the snake in the garden, the keystone of human dysfunction.
It is the core process that cripples the best of us, and makes monsters of the worst.
Let's kill this thing. Let's just kill this fucking thing.
We knock this out, we actually, for the first time in human history, will have a solid foundation on
which to build. To build our lives. To build our world. To build our future.
We have an instinctive flinch inside us – many of us at least – to such talk. We feel it unbecoming
of adults to speak of such things. Of 'utopias' and better worlds.
There is a big difference between a utopia and a better world. This is about the latter. A utopia? A
wonderful planet of all people living as one?
That's not our job. This truth does not build a palace. It levels the ground and makes a foundation.
We are not architects. We are the wrecking crew.
And that is what falls to our generation as the critical task for which history will judge us.
And what is truly unbecoming of adults is to be such slaves to playing the clever cynic, and or the
put-upon depressive that you would cast aside something like this because it aims are too high.
Who do you know?
Who can you buy a copy of this for? Who can you give this to?
Think about this. Think of a list. Get industrial.
Who might be interested? Who might be open? Who might be brave enough, or strong enough, or
driven enough to see this?
Get this to them. Electronic, or print. Whatever. Just get this spread.
Get this spread.
Get real. This is not a sideshow, and you are not a spectator. You are an adult in your heart, or you
are a child. If you are a child, file this away with the rest of your diversions.
If you are an adult, stop. Think. Look.
It is a stunning dereliction of your duty to your people, your nation, your family and yourself to let
this slide away as another interesting sideshow.
What is the truth of this? What is the truth of this? That is the ONLY possible question that could
come from the mind of an honest person.
Find out. Find that truth. And finding, help us. Be strong enough to help us. There will be many,
many people who will dismiss this out of hand. Don't be one of them.
There will be many people who will hold this at arm's length and analyse it endlessly so they never
have to look at the life they live and see the lie at its heart. There will be many like this. Don't be
one of them.
There will be people who discard this because they staunchly defend religious beliefs without ever
having the faith in those beliefs to open their eyes and look at reality.
Don't be one of them.
There will be people so conditioned to the attitude of passive consumption that they will sit, arms
folded, and not reach out for the freedom that is one inch from their hands.
There will be people who delight in beautiful ideas and wallow in pretty fictions and never have the
courage or the soul to delve into reality, and find out what's really happening.
There will be people who just don't care enough about what's true. Who'll shrug it off as another
sideshow and walk away to the next interesting personal drama or television show.
There will be people who will ignore this because they didn't think of it, and to them truth means
nothing if they can't stick a flag in it and claim it for their own.
There will be people who are so focused on a single issue that they can see nothing else, and being
so consumed, will never experience the freedom this brings – freedom that will give life and power
to their efforts. Power they've never experienced, power that can make their efforts finally have
serious traction.
We do not address this work to those who already think they have all the solutions. We do not
address this book to those who don't care what the solutions are. We do not address this book to
those who prefer seeking to finding, or those who prefer speaking to speaking the truth.
We do not address this work to those looking for a pretty answer that is delightful and useless.
Look at what this lie has done to us. Look at what it takes from us, what it turns us into. Every
nightmare man has wrought on man. Every broken human life. This shit ends. This shit ends now.
This shit is over, because we've decided it's over.
It is the fate of honest men in the midst of atrocity to be at war.
We address this book to those brave enough to be the bad guys. Those who are sick to their fucking
stomach of the corruption of man. Those who can no longer stand aside and watch as the madness
of our species consumes life after life. Those who would, in the face of horror, be moved to fury
and not to peace.
This is for the brutal, the savage and the cruel. I pray that you still exist and are numerous. The
world has need of you.
It is to you that we give this book.
Use it.

Brutal Beginnings

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Commercial print publication rights to the text itself are reserved,

Published by Ruthless Press Ltd

You are why we fight.

What you are about to read is evidence.

It requires only honesty. That alone.

Now for the love of God, pay attention.

The best thing is ...

The best thing is - that it's not an inch spiritual.

Re: The best thing is ...

I'm as giddy as a schoolgirl.

Raul - nice work mate. Put a notch on your belt.

Re: The best thing is ...

His deduction was simple.

And now? Spiritual aspect - gone.

Being subject to supernatural cause? Gone.

Having foundations in something beyond possibility of your comprehension? Gone.

Re: The best thing is ...

Re: The best thing is ...

Many words apply.

My written expression of it is absolutely unnecessary.

Re: The best thing is ...

Nice. Very nice. Welcome to the motherfucking war, man.

Rather just mere disappearance and reappearance of realization in memory.

Nie moge sie powstrzymac: amrite? ;p

Re: The best thing is ...

Yes, that is exactly right. Pitch perfect.

Re: The best thing is ...

Re: The best thing is ...

Yes, I am the world's most evil man.

Re: The best thing is ...

Well hello there! I didn't see you before.

What I call the experiencer is part of the experience itself.

I is the experience, and thus I isn't the experiencer.

Re: The best thing is ...

"I" is a part of life but isn't apart from life.

By "it" I mean experience, content, just the stuff that is perceived.

"I" is no different than the rest of the content.

Well hello there! I didn't see you before.

What I calls the experiencer is part of the experience itself.

I is the experience, and thus I isn't the experiencer.”

HEY. HEY HEY HEY.

That's another one. That's another one.

Re: The best thing is ...

Come on Kevin, break free, you're right there. Come on.

Re: The best thing is ...

Stay with it, Kevin

Don't flinch not one bit.

Your thoughts are writing you.

the experience is writing your thoughts.

You are being written by the experience.

Come on man, think! Look at it, hold it up, see it!

Re: The best thing is ...

I’m full of shit.

I’ve done all I can with the cogito = distraction

Brain in the grass = distraction

Baby lying on a blanket = distraction

Re: I’m full of shit.

Don't be fucking lazy or a pussy.

You're not your bullshit.

There is no you in any sense.

Have the courage to crack it or die.