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subject:advaita-l digest, vol 55, issue 17
to:advaita-l@lists.advaita-vedanta.org
date:thu, 22 nov 2007 12:00:03 -0600
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today's topics:

1. re: attack on adi sankara-by dvaitins-what has been done to

resolve this? (ramesh ramanan)
2. re: mithya from archives (vidyasankar sundaresan)
3. re: attack on adi sankara-by dvaitins-what has been done to
resolve this? (kuntimaddi sadananda)
4. re: mithya from archives (kuntimaddi sadananda)
----------------------------------------------------------------------

message: 1
date: thu, 22 nov 2007 12:11:37 +0000 (gmt)
from: ramesh ramanan <rameshramanan@yahoo.co.uk>
subject: re: [advaita-l] attack on adi sankara-by dvaitins-what has
been done to resolve this?
to: a discussion group for advaita vedanta
<advaita-l@lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
message-id: <855985.99123.qm@web23114.mail.ird.yahoo.com>
content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

dear advaita list members,

i find it absolutely ridiculous for anyone to have the audacity to

make slighting remarks on our sri adi shankara.

i have read that sri vedanta desikan swamigal had written a book
titled 'shatha dhooshani' condemning advaita of having 100
mistakes/blemishes/errors and flaws. the kanchi mahaperiavaal sri
chandrashekarendra
saraswathi swamigal directed an shastraic scholar compose a book 'shatha
bhooshani (praising advaita vedanta, refuting all the arguments in the
shatha dhooshani, but without condemning the book itself) in response
to this book. the mahaperiyavaal also directed the shastri who was
respected and loved by both the sringeri and the kanchi maths, to get the
foreword to this book from none other than sri abhinava vidya theertha
mahaswamigal of sringeri, who was also a great expert in nyaya and tarka.

i have not had the fortune of availing myself of a copy of this book
or reading it. i think this book might be a fitting rejoinder to those
who have the audacity to malign our beloved sri adi shankara, who was
not and cannot be limited to any particular sect or belief. ramesh
ramanan.

--- vidyasankar sundaresan svidyasankar@hotmail.com> wrote:

i heard from one of my friends that adi sankara has been attacked
viciously by the dvaitins. i also read. that is true.

what has been done about this by the advaita (smartha) community?
this is character assassination, isn't it? a debate has to take place with
mutual respect, they can attack the philosophy, if they want, but
cannot make nasty remarks about saints, just because they belong to a
different sect.

a whole lot of dispute and recrimination has taken place over the
last six-seven centuries about these issues.

something has to be done about this, because this is an attack on a

certain religion, which indian constitution doesn't permit. either
dvaitins must remove these objectionable verses from their texts, or face
action. imagine what would happen if similar comments have been made
against muslims, there will be an outrage. but why does no one care, when
advaitins are attacked?
 the problem is, the dvaitins who live today are not the ones who
wrote texts like the manimanjari. as such, there is not much they can do.
don't you think what you are suggesting, about removing objectionable
verses from their texts amounts to censorship? moreover, should we
really be comparing such issues in the dvaita-advaita disputes to
hindu-muslim disputes?

in general, in any dispute, when one party resorts to name calling,

it is a sure sign that they are losing the argument. it should be a
matter of pride, therefore, that the advaitins have not had to write texts
that stoop to such a level. many have cared in the past and have taken
issue with the dvaitins about these issues.

many advaitin friends have contacted the dvaita list moderator,

someone named rao, but he didn't have the decency to respond properly. in
fact, he hurled abuses at people who expressed concern.

see above :-). on a more serious note, i think shrisha rao, the
moderator of the dvaita list is still a member of this list, so he may be
reading this. as the dvaita list and its functioning are not the concern
of this list, i hope you can take it up with him separately and get
your concerns addressed.

goes on to show people will never respect us, as long as we crawl

and beg. so the question still remains, what can we do about this?
swallow these insults and move on, or take action?

i don't see holding one's head high and refusing to resort to

similar tactics of insulting and mud-throwing as crawling and begging. look
at the larger picture - advaita vedanta is spread all over india while
dvaita is identified with a much smaller community of people in south
india.

although dvaita has influenced a few other vaishnava groups, such as

the gaudiyas, it is not present as dvaita in these other sects. over
the last century or so, advaita and sankaracharya are also known,
respected and admired all over the world, not because smartas have emigrated
to other parts of the world, but because independent students of indian
philosophy are able to the truth and worth of advaita and the
greatness of sankaracharya. i don't think this is a sign of people not
respecting us, is it?

best regards,
vidyasankar

---------------------------------
yahoo! answers - get better answers from someone who knows. tryit now.

------------------------------

message: 2
date: thu, 22 nov 2007 06:49:19 -0800
from: vidyasankar sundaresan <svidyasankar@hotmail.com>
subject: re: [advaita-l] mithya from archives
to: a discussion group for advaita vedanta
<advaita-l@lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
message-id: <bay101-w51e16b2babc5cc8124b35db790@phx.gbl>
content-type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"

> itareya, prashna, chandogya etc. give different accounts of the

same..in> this scenario, it is difficult to understand the efficacy of
panchikarana> theory in brahma jignasa..though there is an exclusive
prakarana work> called panchikarana in the name of bhagavatpada & vartika on
it in the> name of sureshwara (savartika panchikarana), i dont know how
this work can> effectively explain the theory of creation *in line*
with shruti...for> example, mundaka shruti says brahman becomes fat
through tapasya and from> it is born food etc. and taitiriya explains all the
five elements come from> brahman...etc..how this can be reconciled
with panchikarana theory which> talks about the division of these elements
into parts, and different> combinations of the same etc..
the chandogya upanishat, in the sadvidya section (dialogue between
uddalaka and his son), talks of a division of three elements into parts and
intermixing of these parts. this is called trivrtkarana. in his
bhashya on this upanishad, sankara bhagavatpada explains, in two powerful
short sentences, exactly how the pancikarana theory applies in
brahmajijnasa. "pancikarane 'pi samano nyaya iti. ..." the "samana nyaya" is with
respect to trivrtkarana, which is given in sruti. the reason
pancikarana is brought in here is to arrive at samanvaya of the various accounts
of creation in the different texts.

and if one reads the pancikarana work itself, one realizes that the
emphasis is not really on 'explaining' the process of creation. rather,
the idea is to use the pancikarana theory as a take-off point for
teaching a meditation on the pranava, very much in line with mandukya
upanishat.

best regards,
vidyasankar

_________________________________________________________________
put your friends on the big screen with windows vista? + windows live?.
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/shop/specialoffers.mspx?ocid=txt_taglm_cpc_mediac
tr_bigscreen_102007

------------------------------

message: 3
date: thu, 22 nov 2007 07:43:00 -0800 (pst)
from: kuntimaddi sadananda <kuntimaddisada@yahoo.com>
subject: re: [advaita-l] attack on adi sankara-by dvaitins-what has
been done to resolve this?
to: a discussion group for advaita vedanta
<advaita-l@lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
message-id: <698213.59391.qm@web56010.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

sree ramesh - pranams

just for info. shreeman vedanta deshika was the one

who formulated vishishtaadvaita on a firmer basis. he
represents vadahalai sampradaaya and is respected
throughout. he was around 15th century, if i remember
correctly. the sataduushanii is more polemical work
and does not attack any individuals. the book is
similar to advaita siddhi of madhusuudana saraswati.
an english version, not necessarily in the same
format, is done by shreeman s.m.s. chari entitled
"advaita -vishishtaadvaita" one can get this book on
line. according to chari maama, shree ananta krishna
shastri has written shatabhuushanii - but in stead of
taking one by one objection, shree shastriji has given
general description of advaita philosophy. shree
shastriji has written extensive commentary on vedanta
paribhaasha of dharmaraja advarin. a glimpse of that
work you can see in book of prof. bina gupta on
'perceptions in advaita vedanta', which can be
downloaded.

taking a particular philosophy as puurva paksha is

standard method of philosophical discussions. there
is nothing wrong with that. bhagavaan ramanuja's sree
bhashya on brahmasuutras where he takes advaita as
puurva paksha is worth studying. there are seven
untenables against avidya concept of advaita vedanta.
dr. grimes has taken up this as part of his ph.d
thesis.

what you are complaining is personal attack by many of

dvaitins trying to repeat some of the arguments from
b.n. sarma's book. i found sarma?s book it very hard
to read.

i agree with vidya that personal attacks are bellow

ones dignity and are not worth responding to. we had
one shree j n who was making fool of himself by silly
arguments and was thrown out of this list as well as
advaitin list. it is better to ignore these rattling
noises than to give importance to them.

hari om!
sadananda

--- ramesh ramanan <rameshramanan@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

> dear advaita list members,

>
> i find it absolutely ridiculous for anyone to have
> the audacity to make slighting remarks on our sri
> adi shankara.
>
> i have read that sri vedanta desikan swamigal had
> written a book titled 'shatha dhooshani' condemning
> advaita of having 100 mistakes/blemishes/errors and
> flaws. the kanchi mahaperiavaal sri
> chandrashekarendra saraswathi swamigal directed an
> shastraic scholar compose a book 'shatha bhooshani
> (praising advaita vedanta, refuting all the
> arguments in the shatha dhooshani, but without
> condemning the book itself) in response to this
> book. the mahaperiyavaal also directed the shastri
> who was respected and loved by both the sringeri and
> the kanchi maths, to get the foreword to this book
> from none other than sri abhinava vidya theertha
> mahaswamigal of sringeri, who was also a great
> expert in nyaya and tarka.
>
> i have not had the fortune of availing myself of a
> copy of this book or reading it. i think this book
> might be a fitting rejoinder to those who have the
> audacity to malign our beloved sri adi shankara, who
> was not and cannot be limited to any particular sect
> or belief. ramesh ramanan.
>
> --- vidyasankar sundaresan
> svidyasankar@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> i heard from one of my friends that adi sankara
> has been attacked viciously by the dvaitins. i also
> read. that is true.
>
> what has been done about this by the advaita
> (smartha) community? this is character
> assassination, isn't it? a debate has to take place
> with mutual respect, they can attack the philosophy,
> if they want, but cannot make nasty remarks about
> saints, just because they belong to a different
> sect.
>
> a whole lot of dispute and recrimination has taken
> place over the last six-seven centuries about these
> issues.
>
> something has to be done about this, because this
> is an attack on a certain religion, which indian
> constitution doesn't permit. either dvaitins must
> remove these objectionable verses from their texts,
> or face action. imagine what would happen if similar
> comments have been made against muslims, there will
> be an outrage. but why does no one care, when
> advaitins are attacked?
>
> the problem is, the dvaitins who live today are
> not the ones who wrote texts like the manimanjari.
> as such, there is not much they can do. don't you
> think what you are suggesting, about removing
> objectionable verses from their texts amounts to
> censorship? moreover, should we really be comparing
> such issues in the dvaita-advaita disputes to
> hindu-muslim disputes?
>
> in general, in any dispute, when one party resorts
> to name calling, it is a sure sign that they are
> losing the argument. it should be a matter of pride,
> therefore, that the advaitins have not had to write
> texts that stoop to such a level. many have cared in
> the past and have taken issue with the dvaitins
> about these issues.
>
> many advaitin friends have contacted the dvaita
> list moderator, someone named rao, but he didn't
> have the decency to respond properly. in fact, he
> hurled abuses at people who expressed concern.
>
> see above :-). on a more serious note, i think
> shrisha rao, the moderator of the dvaita list is
> still a member of this list, so he may be reading
> this. as the dvaita list and its functioning are not
> the concern of this list, i hope you can take it up
> with him separately and get your concerns addressed.
>
> goes on to show people will never respect us, as
> long as we crawl and beg. so the question still
> remains, what can we do about this? swallow these
> insults and move on, or take action?
>
> i don't see holding one's head high and refusing
> to resort to similar tactics of insulting and
> mud-throwing as crawling and begging. look at the
> larger picture - advaita vedanta is spread all over
> india while dvaita is identified with a much smaller
> community of people in south india.
>
> although dvaita has influenced a few other
> vaishnava groups, such as the gaudiyas, it is not
> present as dvaita in these other sects. over the
> last century or so, advaita and sankaracharya are
> also known, respected and admired all over the
> world, not because smartas have emigrated to other
> parts of the world, but because independent students
> of indian philosophy are able to the truth and worth
> of advaita and the greatness of sankaracharya. i
> don't think this is a sign of people not respecting
> us, is it?
>
> best regards,
> vidyasankar
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> yahoo! answers - get better answers from someone
> who knows. tryit now.
> _______________________________________________
> archives:
> http://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/archives/advaita-l/
>
> to unsubscribe or change your options:
>
http://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/advaita-l
>
> for assistance, contact:
> listmaster@advaita-vedanta.org
>

------------------------------

message: 4
date: thu, 22 nov 2007 07:56:44 -0800 (pst)
from: kuntimaddi sadananda <kuntimaddisada@yahoo.com>
subject: re: [advaita-l] mithya from archives
to: a discussion group for advaita vedanta
<advaita-l@lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
message-id: <962167.18682.qm@web56001.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

> the chandogya upanishat, in the sadvidya section

> (dialogue between uddalaka and his son), talks of a
> division of three elements into parts and
> intermixing of these parts. this is called
> trivrtkarana.

the emphasis of the sad vidya is sad vidya only and

not on srishti. the discussion started with the
question by uddalaka how 'eka vijnaane sarva vijnaanam
bhavati' - discussion is with the emphasis on kaarya
kaarana samaanaadhikarana - knowing the cause one can
know all the effects orginated from that cause.

hence creation is brought in to show that sat is the

cause for all creation - more importantly that sat is
nothing but you - tat tvam asi and the whole creation
is just 'vaachaarambhanam vikaaro naamadheyah' to
emphasize the mithyaa aspect of the creation. in fact
the vaachaarambhanam statement provides a strong sriti
statement for the world to be mithyaa. the details
of creation emphasizes only the grosser elements
leaving out aakaasha and vaayu, which are more subtle.

hari om!
sadananda

------------------------------

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