alice Walker Calls God Mama

An Interview with Alice Walker

VaLeRIe ReISS

alice Walker has always known God. But she prefers terms like Godness and Mama to describe the divinefor her, it is everywhere, from the Japanese maples outside her window to the slow yoga she practices. Though her seven novels, including 1982s Pulitzer Prizewinning The Color Purple, and many essays and poems have myriad themesfrom feminism to race to class to lovea palpable sense of Mamas richness runs throughout, as well as fiery resistance to any force that attempts to control or contain this juicy, abundant, and everpresent divine. In her most recent book, a collection of political, spiritual, and personal talks, essays, and meditations, We Are the Ones We Have Been Waiting For: Inner Light in a Time of Darkness, she calls The Color Purple, aBuddha book thats not Buddhism. Recently, the authortalked to Beliefnet about meditation, activism, and how we can all bless ourselves anytime, anywhere.

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In which sense did you intend the word meditations below your new books subtitle? Its political meditations. Politically, the world is so confused right now theres so much suffering caused by various movements by various parties and people in power in government. and many people are truly overwhelmed even thinking about politics and the environment and world affairs, so I wanted to offer thoughts on these, but I also wanted to give meditations after each section, because some of the information is a little difficult. a meditation eases that a bit. How can people stay compassionate while still being knowledgeable and active? Theres a saying that I appreciate a lot, which is Knowing without doing is not to know. That seems to be where most of us live. We say, Oh, I know that. But if we dont do anything about it, do we know it? I dont think so. and so, part of practice for all of us now should be understanding what exactly we know, and the way we tell what exactly we know is to notice what we do. How do you know that youre knowing? The last essay [in the book] is about being arrested in front of the White House in 2003 with these other wonderful women against the war. It was one of the happiest days of my life because I knew that I knew, and I knew that I knew that I hated war. What kind of meditation do you practice? all kinds. at one point I learned transcendental meditation. This was thirtysomething years ago. It took me back to the way that I naturally was as a child growing up way in the country, rarely seeing people. I was in that state of one-

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ness with creation and it was as if I didnt exist except as a part of everything. and that is where meditation can help you understand yourself. Whats your meditation ritual? Over the years it shifts. I used to meditate all the time in bed. That was when I was raising my daughter and Id get her up and off to school, and then I would go back to bed, and meditate. and then I would do the same in the evening, and that was very good for that period because I had so many things to juggle as a single mother. But now, I can meditate walking by the ocean. I can actually meditate driving. not when Im in traffic, youll be happy to know. At least not with your eyes closed. no. Im just saying that there are certain activities that lend themselves to the meditative state, and it was quite astonishing that driving happened to be one of them. I sometimes take long drives from here to Mendocino, which is north of Berkeley, and when there is no traffic, its just amazingly meditative. and so, the whole point is basically to be in yourself, to not resist whatever needs to be worked on in yourself, to let that rise, to let it come and to look at it as closely as you can, and then let it go. and I sometimes say that meditation is like flossing your mind . . . you get rid of a lot of stuff that you actually dont need to continue carrying around with you. Do you also practice yoga? I do. I met this man who recently sent me a whole instruction book and tape and everything about yin yoga. This one is just right for this time in my life. you concentrate on the inner parts of your body, like your bones, your tendons, not so much your muscles. and it is wonderful. you stay in each pose for five min-

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utes. It seems like a long time, but it is so good because we get really cramped in our daily world. You wrote in this book that The Color Purple was your Buddha book without being Buddhism. Can you explain that? Well, Buddha was Prince Siddhartha and he lived in a castle. and one day he discovered suffering and old age and death. and then he decided to try to find a better wayto deal with this. The Color Purple is about theology. Many people assume that its just about incest, wife abuse, spouse beating; all of that is in there, but you will notice that the journey that Celie is making is toward her self-realization as a part of the entire Godness. Speaking of God as everything there is, was, ever will be. When you close your eyes and tune into God, what do you see? I dont close my eyes. Why would I close my eyes? Its everywhere. I mean, it just is. What is this if its not God? Do you feel like your whole life youve had a sense of God in this way? yes. I do. In fact, when I was thirteen, I stopped going to church because I felt like they had taken this huge, amazing, incredible Godness and whittled it down to this tiny little thing that they stuck in the church every Sunday when people were too tired really to listen, and fell asleep because they were exhausted from still being slaves, basically. and I wanted, and I insisted, even at that age, on going out into nature and truly feeling what is there, whatyou know, were notyou know, the reason we are not alone is thatbecause earth is with us. We are her beings. Its not because theres somebody in the sky whos watching us, you know?

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Do you have a preferred word for God? I like Mama. In the book you talk about a chant and mudra [yogic hand gesture] that Spirit gave you. Can you explain what that is? Its a way to bless yourself and to give yourself some sign that you are protected and loved. and as we go into this part of our journey as a planet that is quite frightful, actually, I realize that we also need something that is a gesture to bless ourselves. So, the mudra is to hold your thumb and your two first fingers together, and then to circle your heart, or you can circle your whole body while you say or chant, One earth, one people, one love. and this is very good to say for seven times while making the mudra around your heart and your body just as a way of calming yourself, centering yourself in the reality of being this one place, earth, and this one people, the people of earth. Do you have prayers that you say on a regular basis? Thank you is the best prayer that anyone could say. I say that one a lot. Thank you expresses extreme gratitude, humility, understanding. People pray and prayand thats fine. But, for me, Thank you just basically says it all. Who are some of your spiritual gurus? Well, I have teachers. I like Pema Chodron, Jack Kornfield, Thich nath Hanh. I like a lot of the spiritual teachers out of India. I learned from Jesus when I was a child. I was very taken with the stories of His life and very much taken with His struggle to bring a new way to His people. Im very delighted to have the Gnostic gospels and the nag Hammadi scrolls. and Im just constantly delighted with the dalai Lama and the ancient, incredibly wonderful teachings that have made their way to america from Tibet.

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You talk about silence a lothow has that also been a spiritual and creative teacher for you? everything does come out of silence. and once you get that, its wonderful to be able to go there and live in silence until youre ready to leave it. Ive written and published seven novels and many, many, many stories and essays. and each and every one came out of basically nothingthats how we think of silence, is not having anything. But I have experienced silence as being incredibly rich. Do you ever have dry spells or writers block? I dont believe in them. I think that if there are periods when youre not doing something that youre used to doing, it means that you can spend that time doing something else. If I get up and I think Im going to write something and its not there, rather than sitting there and trying to wait for it or try to give it a little nudge, I think, Oh, I can do something else with this time. and then, theres so much else to do. Do you have other creative outlets? Oh, yeah. I paint. I garden. I dance. I cook. I farm. I have never felt that the one thing that I am known for is what I am. How are you feeling about aging at this point in your life? Well, Im sixty-two and I feel wonderful. I have loved every decade. I had a little rough bump in my thirties. and the twenties were politically very rough. I think its a very good thing to be entering elderhood and to take that role in my family and society. I love life even more as I see and have seen so much of it. Oprah playedSofia in the Color Purple movie and helped produce the Broadway show. Why do you think shes so popular right now? Oh, I think that she is like a contemporary goddess, actually. Which is dif-

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ferent from saint because saints have to be good and perfect, and shes not interested in that. Shes interested in doing good things, but how she behaves and who she is is her business, and thats very goddess-like. I think that she offers people a lot of help and a lot of aid and a lot of inspiration and a lot of joy. In the book you quote Martin Luther King saying that the saddest words are Its too late. Do you think it is? Well, it depends on what youre thinking its too late for. Its never too late to start trying to bring peace to yourself and take that into the world, which is what I try in my life to do, because I really do understand that, unless you have it in yourself, theres no possibility of giving it. Thats why you cant make war on people and think that youre bringing peace. Its just ridiculous. And whats your greatest hope for humanity? Well, I hope we can wake up. If we can rise to the challenge that our global interconnectedness gives us. I sometimes talk about how the people who wrote the Bible didnt know China existed. But now we really can connect with all the places. We can see cause and effect. We know about karma. We know karma is just that, that, if you do something mean to somebody, its very likely theyre either going to do it back to you or theyre going to pass it on to someone else. We have a splendid opportunity, for the first time ever on earth, to truly get to the root of things and to transform human society. Its entirely possible, and its really up to us. and since I believe that, I dont worry about it because I know that we will either do it or we wont. If we do it, Hallelujah. The world will just be so wonderful and joyful. If we dont, we will lose such a beautiful gift. and I will have to say that while I was here, I did my very best and loved it as much as it loved methe cosmos, the earth. I personally feel like Ill be fairly content. you

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can only do what you can do. Its just a fact that worrying is unhelpful, whereas trying to bring peace to your own spirit is work you can do, and its work that will actually bring many benefits to everybody that you ever encounter and to the whole world.