Hello Engineers, The Proper Flow Characteristic of the Control Valve | LinkedIn

Account Type: Basic | Upgrade

Hisham Abdel-Samie

Add Connections

Home

Profile

Contacts

Groups

Jobs

Inbox

Companies

News

More

Groups

Search...

Search

Automation & Control Engineering

Discussions Members Promotions Jobs Search More... Discussion | Poll

Hello Engineers, The Proper Flow Characteristic of the Control Valve

How can i select the proper flow characteristic, as linear ,quick opening or equal percentage, of the control valve to control the various of process variables as Temp and Pressure? If there are any method to select it ,I'll be so pleased if anyone kindly informs me. thank you, Eng Hisham
12 days ago

Share Discussion
http://lnkd.in/g_B53G

Latest Updates Adnan Mulaosmanovic and 2 more voted on poll: WHICH PLC IS MORE EFFICIENT AND RELIABLE?
14 comments 9 minutes ago

Like

Comment

Unfollow

Flag

More

Gerg Kertsz likes this

13 comments

Bruce Unfollow

Bruce Brandt Don't forget to include the flowing media. You'll want different characteristics for a compressable vs. non-compressable fluids, heated vs. ambient fluids. You'll also have to consider the dynamics of the process and the type of measurement. Generally pressure and flow respond very quickly while level and temperature respond slowly depending on the capacity of the vessel or capacitance of the system. A 10,000L tank will take a lot longer to fill than a 2L one. As a general rule I'd not use a quick opening valve on a very fast responding process and probably would not use a linear valve either depending on other factors. If you're controlling heated water that is only kept liquid by the pressure in the system then you might find that you'll cause either flashing or cavitation when an equal percentage valve is starting to open so will need to go with a linear to prevent damage to the valve. On the other hand I'd tend to specify a quick opening valve for a very slow process like level in a large tank. As you're thinking about this don't forget that an oversized equal precentage trim will behave like a linear trim and an oversized linear trim will behave like a quick opening trim. That's where you need to understand just how much of a fudge factor the process engineers have used in sizing the piping and pumps. So you see that the real answer is "It depends".
11 days ago Unlike 1

Soe Myint commented in the group on **** SENIOR ELECTRICAL CONTROLS ENGINEER - CONNECTICUT ****: Please check my profile. Regards.
Like Comment (1) 2 hours ago

KATKAR $__$ likes this discussion by syed akhtar abbas mosavi How to communicate Delta VFD with HMI via RS 485
Like (1) 4 hours ago See all updates

Ads by LinkedIn Members

COMbricks
Simultaneously monitoring 4 PROFIBUS networks. Web browser and Email.

Gerg Unfollow

Gerg Kertsz I have to say I don't agree with you. If you use a valve as a control valve the installed flow characteristic (valve+process+measurement) must be linear, because your control algorithm is also linear and the key is to eliminate nonlinearities in your control loop. Nonlinearities will cause adaptive oscillations in your closed control loop. If your process response is slow you couldn't change it with just a simple quick opening valve. The process response time domains has no correlation with valve characteristic.
8 days ago Like

MEF CECP Study Guide

Carrier Ethernet Professionals - Get the NEW MEFCECP Study Guide!

Need to add skills?

Make your move today! Try SMU Cox Executive Education certificate programs.

Follow R. Russell

R. Russell Rhinehart I too think that 1) it depends, and 2) you would want to select a valve characteristic that makes the response to controller output linear-ish. A linear response over the entire flow rate range will make it easier to keep the control loop in tune. But, whether it is a linear or equal-percentage type of inherrent characteristic depends on the specifics of the application. For flow control you need to consider flow rate range, supply-discharge pressure drop, and pressure losses in the line. If you are using the valve for temperature control, and not in a cascade arrangement, then you need to additionally coonsider the flow rate to temperature characteristic. Further, there is more to selecting a valve than the Cv and characteristic. You need to avoid cavitation and choked conditions, and options for such issues are exander/contracters and double trim structures. Additonally, you might want the valve to be balanced, with a dual trim, to prevent chatter at low flow rates or leaks due to pressure pulses. Finally, the actuator is as important as the valve, because speed of response and sticktion can be important for control, and the action critical to safety.

Manager's Choice Has software -- either development or use of sophisticated tools -become a more important part of your job? Please Explain how.
Alex Wolfe See all

Top Influencers This Week

Alin Cosma

http://www.linkedin.com/...ers?viewQuestionAndAnswers=&discussionID=119706699&gid=1967039&commentID=83615429&trk=view_disc&ut=3XMc_vSHcCCRg1[6/11/2012 1:46:47 PM]

Hello Engineers, The Proper Flow Characteristic of the Control Valve | LinkedIn
Alex Wolfe

The body of knowledge that is needed would fill several handbook chapters, and is too much for a brief response. Manufacturers' literature and vendor representatives have the knowledge to help in your application. I'd recommend using those resources.
Heidi Strohman

8 days ago Like

Hisham Abdel-Samie Thank You Very much Gergo, I think that your openion agreed with Mr. Bruce openion... you said valve+process must be linear and Mr. Bruce detail the relation bet the process factors which i can't control and the valve char which in my hand to control by selecting the inverse function of the process respone to be linear relationship. I'm waiting to gain more from Your practical experiences Sirs.
7 days ago

Chris A Rigan

Alejandro Varga Meder

Group Statistics Hisham Abdel-Samie Thanks R.Russell, I Know that your recommendation is very accepted, but i want more practical concepts in this point.
7 days ago
Director Manager Entry

CHECK OUT INSIGHTFUL STATISTICS

ON THIS GROUP

MEMBERS

John Petzen The most commonly-used valve characteristic for control valves is equal percent. The larger increase of flow for the same position change as you increase the opening percentage of the valve allows for better response to dynamic processes, while giving fine control in the low flow range.
Follow John

3,759
View Group Statistics

Quick open is used primarily for pressure relief valves, since a small opening gets you a lot of flow quickly. It's not considered stable for most control applications. Linear is used sometimes, but typically you have to understand the dynamic process characterstics to make a choice between linear and equal percent. I agree with Russell that the subject is poorly treated in a short-answer forum such as this, it's a big topic with some complicating factors. Have you Looked into getting yourself a copy of the Instrumentation and Control Engineer's handbook? Editor is Bela Liptak, the book is published by ISA.
6 days ago Like

Follow James

James Federlein, P.E. I didn't see anyone mention about the difference between inherent and installed valve characteristic but it could be considered part of the "valve + process". The inherent characteristics (quick opening, linear, and equal percentage) are typically referring to a valve as it is tested by the manufacturer, with 100% of the system pressure drop across the valve. The actual pressure drop across an installed valve is a much smaller percentage of the total system pressure drop. How much of a change to the inherent characteristic curve of the valve is determined by the actual percentage of total system pressure drop is across the valve. An equal percentage characteristic valve installed with 10-20% of the total system pressure drop across it will result in an installed characteristic curve for that valve that starts to approach linear. When selecting a valve to obtain the entire valve + process to have a net linear response is a challenge. That would require one to know the reaction curve of the process, the percentage of system pressure drop across the valve, and the inherent characteristic curve of the valve. While a net linear response would be ideal, I have not encountered anyone who knows in advance the process reaction curve for each of the processes to be controlled.
6 days ago Like

Gintautas Gaudinskas I total agree with John Petzen. Equal percentage valve could reduce min controlled flow. In this case Your system will have more wide controll flow range from min to max.
6 days ago Like Follow Gintautas

Gerg Kertsz What I experienced on different customers if a control valve characteristic for example equal-percentage the process response will be equalpercentage as well. Despite of the fact that the process has a kind of "quick-opening"

http://www.linkedin.com/...ers?viewQuestionAndAnswers=&discussionID=119706699&gid=1967039&commentID=83615429&trk=view_disc&ut=3XMc_vSHcCCRg1[6/11/2012 1:46:47 PM]

Hello Engineers, The Proper Flow Characteristic of the Control Valve | LinkedIn

Gerg Unfollow

characteristic like heat exchangers. The problem is that the degree of nonlinearity for proces and valve is not the same and because of this the process characteristic will be mainly determined by the valve. And there is an other ignored effect. If between your PV and OUT the response is nonlinear you have to linearize it for your controller. This linearization will have an effect on your step resolution. One percent of OUT change has a different change in your vave position and it is probable that in higher gain regions your valve is not precise enough to reach the requested value. Some years later when the valve performance getting worse in certain OUT region (higher gain) 1 percent movement will cause a significantly bigger disturbance in the process than a lover gain region and your control loop will start oscillating because of the caused variability by the valve.
5 days ago Like

Hisham Abdel-Samie Special thanks for all of friends: So the choice of the flow chs depends on the speed of process response. Whereas in Flow and Pressure control, Flow chs should be Equal precentage if linear is not desirable and in Temp and level control, flow chs should be Quick opening also if linear is not desirable. Could anyone mention some of practical examples or problems in changing the various controller setings coresponding to changing the flow chs?
5 days ago

Heri Santoso Do you have P&I diagram, if i don't see diagram, couldn't say any think
5 days ago Like Follow Heri

Follow Alejandro

Alejandro Varga Meder The flow characteristic depends on the control action you need. In general level and pressure can be linear or quick opening, flow due to its quadratic nature is generally equal percentage. But the actual definition of what you will need is a bit too much to put in here in such a few lines, there are too many things to consider. As an example, you can modify the operational characteristics of the valve by modifying the output from the controller, so even if you have a quick opening valve, it maybe be characterized to act almost like a linear one, and of course vice versa. I would suggest you redefine your question to maybe a specific characteristic or action.
5 days ago Like

Follow Tim

Tim Howell for heat transfer applications such as heat exchangers equal percentage is designed to compensate for the nonlinear coil transfer characteristics such that the plot of valve position versus % of total heat transfer is approximately linear. This application was made for equal percentage responses. Linear valve trim is best used in blending and mixing applications where two fluids are being combined for some purpose. Level control can use linear or quick opening. Do not over look Russell and Jame's comments. They both make very good points.
4 days ago Like Reply privately Flag as inappropriate

Add a comment...
Send me an email for each new comment.
Add Comment

Ads by LinkedIn Members

Oilfield GPS Tracking

Control your oilfield rental equipment with GPS asset management solution

HiQ Instrumentation gases

High quality gases for AAS, FTIR, GC, HPLC, ICP, NMR & more from Linde Gas

http://www.linkedin.com/...ers?viewQuestionAndAnswers=&discussionID=119706699&gid=1967039&commentID=83615429&trk=view_disc&ut=3XMc_vSHcCCRg1[6/11/2012 1:46:47 PM]

Hello Engineers, The Proper Flow Characteristic of the Control Valve | LinkedIn

Help Center

About

Blog

Careers

Advertising

Recruiting Solutions
Copyright Policy

Tools

Mobile

Developers

Publishers

Language

Upgrade Your Account

LinkedIn Corporation 2012

User Agreement

Privacy Policy

Send Feedback

http://www.linkedin.com/...ers?viewQuestionAndAnswers=&discussionID=119706699&gid=1967039&commentID=83615429&trk=view_disc&ut=3XMc_vSHcCCRg1[6/11/2012 1:46:47 PM]